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Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II

FMTopFan
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p.15 #1 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II

LBJ2 wrote:
Have you tried a similar flip out screen design for photography? My first experience with the A7rV flip out for photography was very favorable. Didn't take much to adjust my muscle memory and frankly I felt like the design opens up even more possibilities for photography/getting the shot.

A7RV does not have a "flip out" screen, right?

It's a 4-axis fully articulating screen, which should have been implemented on A7cR, and would instantly satisfy photographer and hybrid shooters, like you said, this new design opens up even more possibilities.

Aug 31, 2023 at 12:03 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.15 #2 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II

LBJ2 wrote:
Here comes the pile -on, again 😎 Just my opinion of course.

Sorry, I didn't realize this was a controversial subject.

I was thinking about the 40mm lens and was curious about your dislike for it, as I really value your opinion.

Aug 31, 2023 at 12:04 PM

LBJ2
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p.15 #3 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II

FMTopFan wrote:
A7RV does not have a "flip out" screen, right?

It's a 4-axis fully articulating screen, which should have been implemented on A7cR, and would instantly satisfy photographer and hybrid shooters, like you said, this new design opens up even more possibilities.

I consider A7rV a flip out screen. But maybe I am using the wrong term?

Aug 31, 2023 at 12:07 PM

mcbroomf
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p.15 #4 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II

The R5 has both really, you can tilt it like the older models if you want to take photos as waist level. The A7CR though has to be flipped out to the side before you can twist it to look down and take a photo.

Aug 31, 2023 at 12:46 PM

Craig Gillette
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p.15 #5 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II

It flips out to the side but also tilts from behind the body allowing one to look up to the panel tilted downward or down to the panel tilted upwards - without extending to the side, which depending on circumstances may be more subtle than the side placements. My A6400 (and I think some others?) had an additional bracket extension allowing it to be flipped upward for viewing from the front. So no L bracket conflict - but could have conflict if using pop up flash or anything in the hot shoe. I don't think the A7Rv goes that far up? - but you'd have a larger body and hump to deal with, too. Perfection remains eleusive.

Aug 31, 2023 at 12:52 PM

swldstn
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p.15 #6 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II

supermilch wrote:
I�m curious, have you looked at the Sony 20-70 at all? It seems like a good match, looking at camerasize.com it�s just a bit larger than the Sigma I-series (can�t compare to Sony G trio since that�s apparently missing from the site?). For me that looks like it could be a good companion to the already relatively compact but optically great Sony 85/1.8 and the 20G lenses I have.

You can use the Sony FE 28-60/4-5.6 instead on Camerasize.com as a replacement for the Sony G trio.
Also the Sigma 16-28/2.8 and 28-70/2.8 aDG DNs are both a little lighter an abought the same length as the FE 20-70/4 G and with two lens you cover from 16 to 70 @ f2.8. I usuall pair them with a 35/2 I-Series

Aug 31, 2023 at 01:07 PM

EVIL_guy
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p.15 #7 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II

mojoh wrote:
oh.. and as for the new grips, somehow it doesn't make sense (to me) to buy a smaller / lighter body, sacrifice features.. and then add a grip!?

For me it does!
I will buy the A7c R as my main body and it has integrated a complete A6700 APS-C camera with 28MP for taking telephotos.
The new grip will be very helpfull with bigger telelenses i.e.100-400.
All-in-1: A small body for landscape and street and a medium sized body with grip extension for animals and others.

Aug 31, 2023 at 01:13 PM

LBJ2
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p.15 #8 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II

Fred Miranda wrote:
Sorry, I didn't realize this was a controversial subject.

I was thinking about the 40mm lens and was curious about your dislike for it, as I really value your opinion.

For Sony lenses, I'm currently hooked on the faster, "smallish" GM primes and would go for one of those to match with the A7c R plus grip. The G-Trio is however, what I feel ia a much better compact/size and balanced fit for the small A7c cameras. From what I've read recently, many are very happy with G-Trio IQ.

Aug 31, 2023 at 01:28 PM

Palmguy
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p.15 #9 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II

supermilch wrote:
I�m curious, have you looked at the Sony 20-70 at all? It seems like a good match, looking at camerasize.com it�s just a bit larger than the Sigma I-series (can�t compare to Sony G trio since that�s apparently missing from the site?). For me that looks like it could be a good companion to the already relatively compact but optically great Sony 85/1.8 and the 20G lenses I have.

The Sony 28-60 is virtually the same size as the small G primes; that's what I use as a substitute on camerasize.com.

Aug 31, 2023 at 01:46 PM

chez
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p.15 #10 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II

EVIL_guy wrote:
For me it does!
I will buy the A7c R as my main body and it has integrated a complete A6700 APS-C camera with 28MP for taking telephotos.
The new grip will be very helpfull with bigger telelenses i.e.100-400.
All-in-1: A small body for landscape and street and a medium sized body with grip extension for animals and others.

Exactly, use the grip where it makes sense and take it off if the grip is not required. Best of both worlds.

Aug 31, 2023 at 01:46 PM

Jonas B
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p.15 #11 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II

I'll use the A7CR with the

wide: PZ 16-35/4 G - very good
small: FE 40/2.5 G - a little darling getting the job done.
good: FE 50/1.4 GM - truly great
when needed: Samyang AF 70/1.8 - getting the job done despite lousy haptics

I don't really like carrying the total weight of the camera with the 50/1.4 but when in use and actually taking images it is not a problem (judging from experience with the original A7C and the 35GM and 50/1.4GM).

I'm not sure why I post this or why I spend time reading this thread. There are far too many artificial problems here, too many sad and disappointed voices.

Aug 31, 2023 at 01:52 PM

jaygould
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p.15 #12 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II

I will probably use it with:

- Zeiss Loxia 21mm f2.8 (Because I already own it so why not)
- A 35-50mm prime (CV 35mm APO, CV 40mm Nokton, Sigma 35i or 45i or Sony 40mm f2.5 G)
- Sigma 90mm f2.8

I'm thinking I'll be able to crop up to 2x, so 20-40, 35-70, 90-180 is what I should end up with using three primes.

Aug 31, 2023 at 01:59 PM

catacore
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p.15 #13 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II

Well, my small travel kit consists of A7c and Samy 24mm / Sony G 50mm / Sigma 90mm.

My favourite lens, however, is the CV 40/1.2, but I found it challenging to manual focus it using the A7c poor VF, hence I have bought the AF 50mm f2.5 G lens only for this reason (and a bit of volume/weight saving).
Therefore, the handsome Nokton 40mm f1.2 SE remains reserved for my A7Riv.

Aug 31, 2023 at 02:34 PM

catacore
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p.15 #14 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II

I think a lot of the negative comments about the A7cII/R are coming in due to the high expectation people were having while waiting for improvements over the A7c - which has such a attractive, for some, form/weight factor. I simply fall into this category, and the new cameras just launched are a disappointment for me, too. While I can understand some features can't be employed in such a small form factor (like the mechanical shutter, for instance), I am still unimpressed by the EVF (ok, not sure what the magnification difference would mean in real life usage), by the use of the articulated screen (at least on the "R" version, which is supposed to be stills oriented) and by the price (I am not going to sell my A7c and add another 2.5k EUR just to buy 61 MPx and 0.7x EVF magnification - I care nothing about AI stuff in my shooting style, but I would have liked to have the "cropping" option of a 61MPx sensor).

It's just small negative little things that are adding up, so yes, bottom line is: waiting for the A7cR mark2

Aug 31, 2023 at 02:48 PM

Justin Stone
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p.15 #15 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II

I�ve read from others on here that they think the evf resolution (lack of it) will diminish the manual focusing experience on the C bodies. Seems to make sense that when we punch in to focus, having less resolution will translate to a harder time finding focus. Now if we�re just trying to get the best average dof across a landscape framing then that�s a different thing and arguably requires less precision. I�m Curious about how you feel about the evf resolution being a significant obstacle or if you think it�s overblown for manual focus?

LBJ2 wrote:
Something about the rangefinder and nothing but glass and air in between me and the subject/composition that seems to get me all warm & fuzzy and motivated all over again with my Leica kit. And frankly I don't miss thinking about where to place the focus point in some F5.6 F8 scenes with the Leica rangefinder. DOF alignment makes so much more sense to me 😉 *BTW, I think I am already working with the same A7c R 61MP sensor in the M11 camera. Between rangefinder and zone focus I get all my shots with very high hit rate. But...Show more →

Aug 31, 2023 at 02:55 PM

nhsonyshooter
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p.15 #16 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II

catacore wrote:
I think a lot of the negative comments about the A7cII/R are coming in due to the high expectation people were having while waiting for improvements over the A7c - which has such a attractive, for some, form/weight factor. I simply fall into this category, and the new cameras just launched are a disappointment for me, too. While I can understand some features can't be employed in such a small form factor (like the mechanical shutter, for instance), I am still unimpressed by the EVF (ok, not sure what the magnification difference would mean in real life usage), by the...Show more →

Agree. For me I could have put up with alot of the gimping Sony did. Where they lost me is the flip screen. If they just put the RV screen on the CR i would have looked past the rest. Hope the cost savings for a dual hinge was worth it Sony.

Aug 31, 2023 at 03:16 PM

LBJ2
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p.15 #17 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II

Justin Stone wrote:
I�ve read from others on here that they think the evf resolution (lack of it) will diminish the manual focusing experience on the C bodies. Seems to make sense that when we punch in to focus, having less resolution will translate to a harder time finding focus. Now if we�re just trying to get the best average dof across a landscape framing then that�s a different thing and arguably requires less precision. I�m Curious about how you feel about the evf resolution being a significant obstacle or if you think it�s overblown for manual focus?

I just read a few of those comments too and frankly wasn't thinking about the A7c EVF resolution when I posted my comment. I've never used the A7c but EVF resolution can make a difference for critical Manual Focus.

From DPReview a7cR article:
"The viewfinder resolution remains the same at 2.36M dots (1024 x 768px) but with brightness that comes much closer to that of the a7R V's finder and improved viewfinder optics that deliver 0.7x magnification. This isn't huge, but it's a vast improvement on the 'postage stamp at the end of a corridor' effect that the a7C's 0.59x magnification gave."

Now I'm wondering about this for MF magnification too...

FWIW, Leica offers an external EVF for their rangefinder cameras. Their older EVF is a 2.4MP resolution ( not the best). I found that resolution just fine to punch in and focus peak with good results even at the faster apertures. Leica's newest external EVF is 3.7MP, so even better, but also not at the level of the best mirrorless EVFs. For instance the Sony A1/A7rV EVF resolution and clarity is so good, I typically turn off focus peaking and just punch in to even the finest details.

Aug 31, 2023 at 04:03 PM

Jeff Kott
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p.15 #18 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II

LBJ2 wrote:
Duly noted: "Pentax 77/1.8, 70/2.4, 43/1.9 and 40/2.8 with Monster adapter.

If you think you might want to dip your toe in these waters, I would try to pick up a 77/1.8 - gorgeous portrait rendering. The 70/2.4 is incredibly compact with similar rendering, but of course you give up a stop if that matters to you. Since Pentax has not been a world beater with new camera offerings and don't have any MILC offerings, my guess is you might be able to pick up used Pentax Limited lenses at a very significant discount to the prices of new lenses. The collapsing hoods that come with the lenses also add to the compactness of the camera/lens combo.

Aug 31, 2023 at 04:37 PM

joychris
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p.15 #19 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II

FMTopFan wrote:
Does anyone have suggestions on how to deal with the flip out screen of the A7cR?

First, the flip out screen is a huge hindrance to street shooting. Not only does it extends the footprint of the camera, not good in crowds where space is tight, as someone or something could easily gets caught by the stupid extended screen, which at best would cause unexpected jerks or injury, or at worst injury and also loss of camera.

Also, for low angle shooting, since screen is extended way to the left side of the camera, if you are holding it out...Show more →

Just watch a couple of Pierre T Lamberts street photo videos, he uses the a7IV almost exclusively. Nothing you bring up is an actual issue in use. You just tweak the way you work a bit. You�re seriously overthinking it. It�s far better for any low or high angle shot because you�re not limited by the more restrictive tilt only angle.

If it bugs you that much just don�t buy it. I love the fully articulated screen, makes getting any shot, portrait or landscape orientation, much, much easier. And you can turn it around for storage or just to not see it. I seriously doubt we�ll ever see a different screen on the C line so it�s this or look elsewhere.

They nailed the design, it�s perfect for what it is.

Chris

Aug 31, 2023 at 06:16 PM

mojoh
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p.15 #20 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II

patotts wrote:
I do wish they would hire a real US designer who could influence the choice of EVF, screen, exact button placements, refine the menu, etc. It seems so trivial and obvious...

They did.
Its the same guy who designed the A7R5.
And if he is tasked to fix the 'complaints' of the A7CR, he'd end up with an A7R5, again.

That's how 'good' their UX designer is.

Jus kidding..

Edited on Aug 31, 2023 at 08:58 PM · View previous versions

Aug 31, 2023 at 06:28 PM

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