Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
p.15 #1Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
LBJ2 wrote:
Have you tried a similar flip out screen design for photography? My first experience with the A7rV flip out for photography was very favorable. Didn't take much to adjust my muscle memory and frankly I felt like the design opens up even more possibilities for photography/getting the shot.
A7RV does not have a "flip out" screen, right?
It's a 4-axis fully articulating screen, which should have been implemented on A7cR, and would instantly satisfy photographer and hybrid shooters, like you said, this new design opens up even more possibilities.
Have you tried a similar flip out screen design for photography? My first experience with the A7rV flip out for photography was very favorable. Didn't take much to adjust my muscle memory and frankly I felt like the design opens up even more possibilities for photography/getting the shot.
A7RV does not have a "flip out" screen, right?
It's a 4-axis fully articulating screen, which should have been implemented on A7cR, and would instantly satisfy photographer and hybrid shooters, like you said, this new design opens up even more possibilities.
Aug 31, 2023 at 11:03 AM
p.15 #2Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
LBJ2 wrote:
For landscape,Voigtlander 50/2 APO and Leica 90/4 Macro Planar.
For people and AF, Sony 55/1.8 and 85/1.8. Will manual focus Leica 50 and 90 Cron.
Also, Pentax 77/1.8, 70/2.4, 43/1.9 and 40/2.8 with Monster adapter.
All of these lenses resolve well on my A6600 which has similar pixel density and work fine with almost no vignetting on my A7Riii.Interesting. I've never considered/adapted Pentax lenses before. Will have to check that out. I still have the Sony FE/Zeiss 55 F1.8--maybe a sleeper lens in 2023, but still an IQ performer with a recognizable "look" IMOWhy do you seem to dislike the compact G-trio? I haven't tried them yet, but they appear to be really good optically. If you're looking for a full-frame compact lens with AF that maintains high image quality without too many trade-offs, these lenses might not be very fast.Here comes the pile -on, again 😎 Just my opinion of course.
Sorry, I didn't realize this was a controversial subject.
I was thinking about the 40mm lens and was curious about your dislike for it, as I really value your opinion.
Fred Miranda wrote
LBJ2 wrote
Jeff Kott wrote
LBJ2 wrote
Just curious what do you think will be your preferred lenses for the very small but mighty resolving A7c R camera body ?For people and AF, Sony 55/1.8 and 85/1.8. Will manual focus Leica 50 and 90 Cron.
Also, Pentax 77/1.8, 70/2.4, 43/1.9 and 40/2.8 with Monster adapter.
All of these lenses resolve well on my A6600 which has similar pixel density and work fine with almost no vignetting on my A7Riii.
Sorry, I didn't realize this was a controversial subject.
I was thinking about the 40mm lens and was curious about your dislike for it, as I really value your opinion.Aug 31, 2023 at 11:04 AM
p.15 #3Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
FMTopFan wrote:
A7RV does not have a "flip out" screen, right?
It's a 4-axis fully articulating screen, which should have been implemented on A7cR, and would instantly satisfy photographer and hybrid shooters, like you said, this new design opens up even more possibilities.
I consider A7rV a flip out screen. But maybe I am using the wrong term?
LBJ2 wrote
Have you tried a similar flip out screen design for photography? My first experience with the A7rV flip out for photography was very favorable. Didn't take much to adjust my muscle memory and frankly I felt like the design opens up even more possibilities for photography/getting the shot.It's a 4-axis fully articulating screen, which should have been implemented on A7cR, and would instantly satisfy photographer and hybrid shooters, like you said, this new design opens up even more possibilities.
I consider A7rV a flip out screen. But maybe I am using the wrong term?
Aug 31, 2023 at 11:07 AM
p.15 #4Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
The R5 has both really, you can tilt it like the older models if you want to take photos as waist level. The A7CR though has to be flipped out to the side before you can twist it to look down and take a photo.
Aug 31, 2023 at 11:46 AM
p.15 #5Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
It flips out to the side but also tilts from behind the body allowing one to look up to the panel tilted downward or down to the panel tilted upwards - without extending to the side, which depending on circumstances may be more subtle than the side placements. My A6400 (and I think some others?) had an additional bracket extension allowing it to be flipped upward for viewing from the front. So no L bracket conflict - but could have conflict if using pop up flash or anything in the hot shoe. I don't think the A7Rv goes that far up? - but you'd have a larger body and hump to deal with, too. Perfection remains eleusive.
Aug 31, 2023 at 11:52 AM
p.15 #6Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
supermilch wrote:
I’m curious, have you looked at the Sony 20-70 at all? It seems like a good match, looking at camerasize.com it’s just a bit larger than the Sigma I-series (can’t compare to Sony G trio since that’s apparently missing from the site?). For me that looks like it could be a good companion to the already relatively compact but optically great Sony 85/1.8 and the 20G lenses I have.
You can use the Sony FE 28-60/4-5.6 instead on Camerasize.com as a replacement for the Sony G trio.
Also the Sigma 16-28/2.8 and 28-70/2.8 aDG DNs are both a little lighter an abought the same length as the FE 20-70/4 G and with two lens you cover from 16 to 70 @ f2.8. I usuall pair them with a 35/2 I-Series
I’m curious, have you looked at the Sony 20-70 at all? It seems like a good match, looking at camerasize.com it’s just a bit larger than the Sigma I-series (can’t compare to Sony G trio since that’s apparently missing from the site?). For me that looks like it could be a good companion to the already relatively compact but optically great Sony 85/1.8 and the 20G lenses I have.
You can use the Sony FE 28-60/4-5.6 instead on Camerasize.com as a replacement for the Sony G trio.
Also the Sigma 16-28/2.8 and 28-70/2.8 aDG DNs are both a little lighter an abought the same length as the FE 20-70/4 G and with two lens you cover from 16 to 70 @ f2.8. I usuall pair them with a 35/2 I-Series
Aug 31, 2023 at 12:07 PM
p.15 #7Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
mojoh wrote:
oh.. and as for the new grips, somehow it doesn't make sense (to me) to buy a smaller / lighter body, sacrifice features.. and then add a grip!?
For me it does!
I will buy the A7c R as my main body and it has integrated a complete A6700 APS-C camera with 28MP for taking telephotos.
The new grip will be very helpfull with bigger telelenses i.e.100-400.
All-in-1: A small body for landscape and street and a medium sized body with grip extension for animals and others.
oh.. and as for the new grips, somehow it doesn't make sense (to me) to buy a smaller / lighter body, sacrifice features.. and then add a grip!?
For me it does!
I will buy the A7c R as my main body and it has integrated a complete A6700 APS-C camera with 28MP for taking telephotos.
The new grip will be very helpfull with bigger telelenses i.e.100-400.
All-in-1: A small body for landscape and street and a medium sized body with grip extension for animals and others.
Aug 31, 2023 at 12:13 PM
p.15 #8Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
Fred Miranda wrote:
For landscape,Voigtlander 50/2 APO and Leica 90/4 Macro Planar.
For people and AF, Sony 55/1.8 and 85/1.8. Will manual focus Leica 50 and 90 Cron.
Also, Pentax 77/1.8, 70/2.4, 43/1.9 and 40/2.8 with Monster adapter.
All of these lenses resolve well on my A6600 which has similar pixel density and work fine with almost no vignetting on my A7Riii.Interesting. I've never considered/adapted Pentax lenses before. Will have to check that out. I still have the Sony FE/Zeiss 55 F1.8--maybe a sleeper lens in 2023, but still an IQ performer with a recognizable "look" IMOWhy do you seem to dislike the compact G-trio? I haven't tried them yet, but they appear to be really good optically. If you're looking for a full-frame compact lens with AF that maintains high image quality without too many trade-offs, these lenses might not be very fast.Here comes the pile -on, again 😎 Just my opinion of course.Sorry, I didn't realize this was a controversial subject. I was thinking about the 40mm lens and was curious about your dislike for it, as I really value your opinion.
For Sony lenses, I'm currently hooked on the faster, "smallish" GM primes and would go for one of those to match with the A7c R plus grip. The G-Trio is however, what I feel ia a much better compact/size and balanced fit for the small A7c cameras. From what I've read recently, many are very happy with G-Trio IQ.
LBJ2 wrote
Fred Miranda wrote
LBJ2 wrote
Jeff Kott wrote
LBJ2 wrote
Just curious what do you think will be your preferred lenses for the very small but mighty resolving A7c R camera body ?For people and AF, Sony 55/1.8 and 85/1.8. Will manual focus Leica 50 and 90 Cron.
Also, Pentax 77/1.8, 70/2.4, 43/1.9 and 40/2.8 with Monster adapter.
All of these lenses resolve well on my A6600 which has similar pixel density and work fine with almost no vignetting on my A7Riii.
I was thinking about the 40mm lens and was curious about your dislike for it, as I really value your opinion.For Sony lenses, I'm currently hooked on the faster, "smallish" GM primes and would go for one of those to match with the A7c R plus grip. The G-Trio is however, what I feel ia a much better compact/size and balanced fit for the small A7c cameras. From what I've read recently, many are very happy with G-Trio IQ.
Aug 31, 2023 at 12:28 PM
p.15 #9Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
supermilch wrote:
I’m curious, have you looked at the Sony 20-70 at all? It seems like a good match, looking at camerasize.com it’s just a bit larger than the Sigma I-series (can’t compare to Sony G trio since that’s apparently missing from the site?). For me that looks like it could be a good companion to the already relatively compact but optically great Sony 85/1.8 and the 20G lenses I have.
The Sony 28-60 is virtually the same size as the small G primes; that's what I use as a substitute on camerasize.com.
I’m curious, have you looked at the Sony 20-70 at all? It seems like a good match, looking at camerasize.com it’s just a bit larger than the Sigma I-series (can’t compare to Sony G trio since that’s apparently missing from the site?). For me that looks like it could be a good companion to the already relatively compact but optically great Sony 85/1.8 and the 20G lenses I have.
The Sony 28-60 is virtually the same size as the small G primes; that's what I use as a substitute on camerasize.com.
Aug 31, 2023 at 12:46 PM
p.15 #10Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
EVIL_guy wrote:
For me it does!
I will buy the A7c R as my main body and it has integrated a complete A6700 APS-C camera with 28MP for taking telephotos.
The new grip will be very helpfull with bigger telelenses i.e.100-400.
All-in-1: A small body for landscape and street and a medium sized body with grip extension for animals and others.
Exactly, use the grip where it makes sense and take it off if the grip is not required. Best of both worlds.
mojoh wrote
oh.. and as for the new grips, somehow it doesn't make sense (to me) to buy a smaller / lighter body, sacrifice features.. and then add a grip!?I will buy the A7c R as my main body and it has integrated a complete A6700 APS-C camera with 28MP for taking telephotos.
The new grip will be very helpfull with bigger telelenses i.e.100-400.
All-in-1: A small body for landscape and street and a medium sized body with grip extension for animals and others.
Exactly, use the grip where it makes sense and take it off if the grip is not required. Best of both worlds.
Aug 31, 2023 at 12:46 PM
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p.15 #11Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
I'll use the A7CR with the
wide: PZ 16-35/4 G - very good
small: FE 40/2.5 G - a little darling getting the job done.
good: FE 50/1.4 GM - truly great
when needed: Samyang AF 70/1.8 - getting the job done despite lousy haptics
I don't really like carrying the total weight of the camera with the 50/1.4 but when in use and actually taking images it is not a problem (judging from experience with the original A7C and the 35GM and 50/1.4GM).
I'm not sure why I post this or why I spend time reading this thread. There are far too many artificial problems here, too many sad and disappointed voices.
wide: PZ 16-35/4 G - very good
small: FE 40/2.5 G - a little darling getting the job done.
good: FE 50/1.4 GM - truly great
when needed: Samyang AF 70/1.8 - getting the job done despite lousy haptics
I don't really like carrying the total weight of the camera with the 50/1.4 but when in use and actually taking images it is not a problem (judging from experience with the original A7C and the 35GM and 50/1.4GM).
I'm not sure why I post this or why I spend time reading this thread. There are far too many artificial problems here, too many sad and disappointed voices.
Aug 31, 2023 at 12:52 PM
p.15 #12Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
I will probably use it with:
- Zeiss Loxia 21mm f2.8 (Because I already own it so why not)
- A 35-50mm prime (CV 35mm APO, CV 40mm Nokton, Sigma 35i or 45i or Sony 40mm f2.5 G)
- Sigma 90mm f2.8
I'm thinking I'll be able to crop up to 2x, so 20-40, 35-70, 90-180 is what I should end up with using three primes.
- Zeiss Loxia 21mm f2.8 (Because I already own it so why not)
- A 35-50mm prime (CV 35mm APO, CV 40mm Nokton, Sigma 35i or 45i or Sony 40mm f2.5 G)
- Sigma 90mm f2.8
I'm thinking I'll be able to crop up to 2x, so 20-40, 35-70, 90-180 is what I should end up with using three primes.
Aug 31, 2023 at 12:59 PM
p.15 #13Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
Well, my small travel kit consists of A7c and Samy 24mm / Sony G 50mm / Sigma 90mm.
My favourite lens, however, is the CV 40/1.2, but I found it challenging to manual focus it using the A7c poor VF, hence I have bought the AF 50mm f2.5 G lens only for this reason (and a bit of volume/weight saving).
Therefore, the handsome Nokton 40mm f1.2 SE remains reserved for my A7Riv.
My favourite lens, however, is the CV 40/1.2, but I found it challenging to manual focus it using the A7c poor VF, hence I have bought the AF 50mm f2.5 G lens only for this reason (and a bit of volume/weight saving).
Therefore, the handsome Nokton 40mm f1.2 SE remains reserved for my A7Riv.
Aug 31, 2023 at 01:34 PM
p.15 #14Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
I think a lot of the negative comments about the A7cII/R are coming in due to the high expectation people were having while waiting for improvements over the A7c - which has such a attractive, for some, form/weight factor. I simply fall into this category, and the new cameras just launched are a disappointment for me, too. While I can understand some features can't be employed in such a small form factor (like the mechanical shutter, for instance), I am still unimpressed by the EVF (ok, not sure what the magnification difference would mean in real life usage), by the use of the articulated screen (at least on the "R" version, which is supposed to be stills oriented) and by the price (I am not going to sell my A7c and add another 2.5k EUR just to buy 61 MPx and 0.7x EVF magnification - I care nothing about AI stuff in my shooting style, but I would have liked to have the "cropping" option of a 61MPx sensor).
It's just small negative little things that are adding up, so yes, bottom line is: waiting for the A7cR mark2
It's just small negative little things that are adding up, so yes, bottom line is: waiting for the A7cR mark2
Aug 31, 2023 at 01:48 PM
p.15 #15Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
I’ve read from others on here that they think the evf resolution (lack of it) will diminish the manual focusing experience on the C bodies. Seems to make sense that when we punch in to focus, having less resolution will translate to a harder time finding focus. Now if we’re just trying to get the best average dof across a landscape framing then that’s a different thing and arguably requires less precision. I’m Curious about how you feel about the evf resolution being a significant obstacle or if you think it’s overblown for manual focus?
LBJ2 wrote:
Just curious what do you think will be your preferred lenses for the very small but mighty resolving A7c R camera body ?Hi LBJ.
That is a really good question. For travel, like my November trip to Japan, I think I might pair it with some of the Sigma i lenses, possibly the 24/3.5, 45/2.8, 65/2.0, and 90/2.8. I might also take the Sony 50/2.5 or 55/1.8 and the Sigma 35/2.0 as a two lens walk-around kit--but all those lenses would have to be carried from hotel to hotel, though only a few would go out on any given day.
When not traveling, I will want to see how the Sony 24 GM and 35 GM feel mounted on the lens. I think I would feel free to use larger lenses on the smaller camera if I were not traveling and concerned about weight. It would depend on what I was shooting. I don't think--though obviously I can't know yet--that the 35 GM would be uncomfortable on the A7Cr. And if it is not uncomfortable on the body, then neither would be the lighter 24mm GM or the Sony 50/1.4 GM which is a similar size and weight. I don't own the latter lens and I am undecided on whether I want to spend the money for that one.
Almost all my shooting falls into 35mm to 65mm with wider occasionally for landscapes.
What are your thoughts about this?
PeterThe sensor in the A7cR seems to up the game for the A7c system considerably IMO. My first thoughts for best IQ, super fast, modern Voigtlander lenses are a near perfect match for this tiny 61MP camera. Tiny FF high quality, fast lens + Tiny FF camera with 61 MPs FF sensor--look out 😎 Zone focusing makes the MF Voigts a pleasure to use for faster than AF while on the go, hike, travel etc. Some of the Zeiss Loxia too e.g., 21/25
For AF lenses, I'm still pondering. Thanks for your inputs. I know you've been investigating best small optics for some time now. The Sony G-Trios are not my optical cup of tea, particularly for 61MPs FF, but surely nice and compact if that's the priority and I know many love the G-Trios. Just not me.
The Grip for the A7c R is nice too. I think that grip will make for a more balanced feel with the GM primes 24/35 and 50 1.4 for optimal Sony fast AF lens experience.
For me a fun experiment to research what would be my top three small and compact best IQ for the A7c R travel kit--still a work in progress, but will post when I get to some conclusion. I also need to investigate some of those iSigmas too. How have you found the AF response with the small Sigmas on Sony cameras?If I have time after getting the camera before I leave for my trip, I am going to investigate the Voigts I have (35/40/50 in 1.2) to see if I cn get the fast zone focusing down enough to use on a trip. Not sure I'd actually them, but maybe one.
I know you have been very satisfied doing zone focusing on the Leica. One of my thoughts about these upgraded A7Cxx bodies is that they might attract some photographers who also like Leicas. The way you are talking about using the Voigts on the C makes me think you might be finding some of what you get from Leica in what you anticipate getting with the C bodies?Something about the rangefinder and nothing but glass and air in between me and the subject/composition that seems to get me all warm & fuzzy and motivated all over again with my Leica kit. And frankly I don't miss thinking about where to place the focus point in some F5.6 F8 scenes with the Leica rangefinder. DOF alignment makes so much more sense to me 😉 *BTW, I think I am already working with the same A7c R 61MP sensor in the M11 camera. Between rangefinder and zone focus I get all my shots with very high hit rate. But...Show more →
LBJ2 wrote:
chiron wrote
LBJ2 wrote
chiron wrote
LBJ2 wrote
chiron wrote
Thanks for finding and posting this. The fact that at least the A7Cr has variable shutter and auto-detect for LED and other artificial lights is a very big deal for me since I often shoot under LEDs. It really does make the A7Cr pretty much a smaller-bodied A7RV in my view.That is a really good question. For travel, like my November trip to Japan, I think I might pair it with some of the Sigma i lenses, possibly the 24/3.5, 45/2.8, 65/2.0, and 90/2.8. I might also take the Sony 50/2.5 or 55/1.8 and the Sigma 35/2.0 as a two lens walk-around kit--but all those lenses would have to be carried from hotel to hotel, though only a few would go out on any given day.
When not traveling, I will want to see how the Sony 24 GM and 35 GM feel mounted on the lens. I think I would feel free to use larger lenses on the smaller camera if I were not traveling and concerned about weight. It would depend on what I was shooting. I don't think--though obviously I can't know yet--that the 35 GM would be uncomfortable on the A7Cr. And if it is not uncomfortable on the body, then neither would be the lighter 24mm GM or the Sony 50/1.4 GM which is a similar size and weight. I don't own the latter lens and I am undecided on whether I want to spend the money for that one.
Almost all my shooting falls into 35mm to 65mm with wider occasionally for landscapes.
What are your thoughts about this?
Peter
For AF lenses, I'm still pondering. Thanks for your inputs. I know you've been investigating best small optics for some time now. The Sony G-Trios are not my optical cup of tea, particularly for 61MPs FF, but surely nice and compact if that's the priority and I know many love the G-Trios. Just not me.
The Grip for the A7c R is nice too. I think that grip will make for a more balanced feel with the GM primes 24/35 and 50 1.4 for optimal Sony fast AF lens experience.
For me a fun experiment to research what would be my top three small and compact best IQ for the A7c R travel kit--still a work in progress, but will post when I get to some conclusion. I also need to investigate some of those iSigmas too. How have you found the AF response with the small Sigmas on Sony cameras?
I know you have been very satisfied doing zone focusing on the Leica. One of my thoughts about these upgraded A7Cxx bodies is that they might attract some photographers who also like Leicas. The way you are talking about using the Voigts on the C makes me think you might be finding some of what you get from Leica in what you anticipate getting with the C bodies?
Aug 31, 2023 at 01:55 PM
p.15 #16Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
catacore wrote:
I think a lot of the negative comments about the A7cII/R are coming in due to the high expectation people were having while waiting for improvements over the A7c - which has such a attractive, for some, form/weight factor. I simply fall into this category, and the new cameras just launched are a disappointment for me, too. While I can understand some features can't be employed in such a small form factor (like the mechanical shutter, for instance), I am still unimpressed by the EVF (ok, not sure what the magnification difference would mean in real life usage), by the...Show more →
Agree. For me I could have put up with alot of the gimping Sony did. Where they lost me is the flip screen. If they just put the RV screen on the CR i would have looked past the rest. Hope the cost savings for a dual hinge was worth it Sony.
I think a lot of the negative comments about the A7cII/R are coming in due to the high expectation people were having while waiting for improvements over the A7c - which has such a attractive, for some, form/weight factor. I simply fall into this category, and the new cameras just launched are a disappointment for me, too. While I can understand some features can't be employed in such a small form factor (like the mechanical shutter, for instance), I am still unimpressed by the EVF (ok, not sure what the magnification difference would mean in real life usage), by the...Show more →
Agree. For me I could have put up with alot of the gimping Sony did. Where they lost me is the flip screen. If they just put the RV screen on the CR i would have looked past the rest. Hope the cost savings for a dual hinge was worth it Sony.
Aug 31, 2023 at 02:16 PM
p.15 #17Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
Justin Stone wrote:
I’ve read from others on here that they think the evf resolution (lack of it) will diminish the manual focusing experience on the C bodies. Seems to make sense that when we punch in to focus, having less resolution will translate to a harder time finding focus. Now if we’re just trying to get the best average dof across a landscape framing then that’s a different thing and arguably requires less precision. I’m Curious about how you feel about the evf resolution being a significant obstacle or if you think it’s overblown for manual focus?
Hi LBJ.
That is a really good question. For travel, like my November trip to Japan, I think I might pair it with some of the Sigma i lenses, possibly the 24/3.5, 45/2.8, 65/2.0, and 90/2.8. I might also take the Sony 50/2.5 or 55/1.8 and the Sigma 35/2.0 as a two lens walk-around kit--but all those lenses would have to be carried from hotel to hotel, though only a few would go out on any given day.
When not traveling, I will want to see how the Sony 24 GM and 35 GM feel mounted on the lens. I think I would feel free to use larger lenses on the smaller camera if I were not traveling and concerned about weight. It would depend on what I was shooting. I don't think--though obviously I can't know yet--that the 35 GM would be uncomfortable on the A7Cr. And if it is not uncomfortable on the body, then neither would be the lighter 24mm GM or the Sony 50/1.4 GM which is a similar size and weight. I don't own the latter lens and I am undecided on whether I want to spend the money for that one.
Almost all my shooting falls into 35mm to 65mm with wider occasionally for landscapes.
What are your thoughts about this?
PeterThe sensor in the A7cR seems to up the game for the A7c system considerably IMO. My first thoughts for best IQ, super fast, modern Voigtlander lenses are a near perfect match for this tiny 61MP camera. Tiny FF high quality, fast lens + Tiny FF camera with 61 MPs FF sensor--look out 😎 Zone focusing makes the MF Voigts a pleasure to use for faster than AF while on the go, hike, travel etc. Some of the Zeiss Loxia too e.g., 21/25
For AF lenses, I'm still pondering. Thanks for your inputs. I know you've been investigating best small optics for some time now. The Sony G-Trios are not my optical cup of tea, particularly for 61MPs FF, but surely nice and compact if that's the priority and I know many love the G-Trios. Just not me.
The Grip for the A7c R is nice too. I think that grip will make for a more balanced feel with the GM primes 24/35 and 50 1.4 for optimal Sony fast AF lens experience.
For me a fun experiment to research what would be my top three small and compact best IQ for the A7c R travel kit--still a work in progress, but will post when I get to some conclusion. I also need to investigate some of those iSigmas too. How have you found the AF response with the small Sigmas on Sony cameras?If I have time after getting the camera before I leave for my trip, I am going to investigate the Voigts I have (35/40/50 in 1.2) to see if I cn get the fast zone focusing down enough to use on a trip. Not sure I'd actually them, but maybe one.
I know you have been very satisfied doing zone focusing on the Leica. One of my thoughts about these upgraded A7Cxx bodies is that they might attract some photographers who also like Leicas. The way you are talking about using the Voigts on the C makes me think you might be finding some of what you get from Leica in what you anticipate getting with the C bodies?Something about the rangefinder and nothing but glass and air in between me and the subject/composition that seems to get me all warm & fuzzy and motivated all over again with my Leica kit. And frankly I don't miss thinking about where to place the focus point in some F5.6 F8 scenes with the Leica rangefinder. DOF alignment makes so much more sense to me 😉 *BTW, I think I am already working with the same A7c R 61MP sensor in the M11 camera. Between rangefinder and zone focus I get all my shots with very high hit rate. But I do have to wear my specs with rangefinder focus which for me is fine too. The wider the lens the super easier zone focus is with large DOF from the wider lenses. Do give it some practice...all you have to do is frame the shot and mind your shutter speed and Viola.
I do however think Sony is getting closer to the much loved rangefinder style camera body style with the A7c series and some of the Voigts and Loxia lenses close the gap even further. I think these two new A7c models will sell very well just as Sony knows they will. Lot of people from other systems looking at these small "rangefinder style" bodies I think. But the camera size/style is only 50% of the experience IMO. Is Sony would just come with some top shelf, fast, tiny manual focus lenses for this A7c series, they wold clean up the market, til then the voigts, Loxia will do very well.
I just read a few of those comments too and frankly wasn't thinking about the A7c EVF resolution when I posted my comment. I've never used the A7c but EVF resolution can make a difference for critical Manual Focus.
From DPReview a7cR article:
"The viewfinder resolution remains the same at 2.36M dots (1024 x 768px) but with brightness that comes much closer to that of the a7R V's finder and improved viewfinder optics that deliver 0.7x magnification. This isn't huge, but it's a vast improvement on the 'postage stamp at the end of a corridor' effect that the a7C's 0.59x magnification gave."
Now I'm wondering about this for MF magnification too...
FWIW, Leica offers an external EVF for their rangefinder cameras. Their older EVF is a 2.4MP resolution ( not the best). I found that resolution just fine to punch in and focus peak with good results even at the faster apertures. Leica's newest external EVF is 3.7MP, so even better, but also not at the level of the best mirrorless EVFs. For instance the Sony A1/A7rV EVF resolution and clarity is so good, I typically turn off focus peaking and just punch in to even the finest details.
I’ve read from others on here that they think the evf resolution (lack of it) will diminish the manual focusing experience on the C bodies. Seems to make sense that when we punch in to focus, having less resolution will translate to a harder time finding focus. Now if we’re just trying to get the best average dof across a landscape framing then that’s a different thing and arguably requires less precision. I’m Curious about how you feel about the evf resolution being a significant obstacle or if you think it’s overblown for manual focus?
LBJ2 wrote
chiron wrote
LBJ2 wrote
chiron wrote
LBJ2 wrote
Just curious what do you think will be your preferred lenses for the very small but mighty resolving A7c R camera body ?That is a really good question. For travel, like my November trip to Japan, I think I might pair it with some of the Sigma i lenses, possibly the 24/3.5, 45/2.8, 65/2.0, and 90/2.8. I might also take the Sony 50/2.5 or 55/1.8 and the Sigma 35/2.0 as a two lens walk-around kit--but all those lenses would have to be carried from hotel to hotel, though only a few would go out on any given day.
When not traveling, I will want to see how the Sony 24 GM and 35 GM feel mounted on the lens. I think I would feel free to use larger lenses on the smaller camera if I were not traveling and concerned about weight. It would depend on what I was shooting. I don't think--though obviously I can't know yet--that the 35 GM would be uncomfortable on the A7Cr. And if it is not uncomfortable on the body, then neither would be the lighter 24mm GM or the Sony 50/1.4 GM which is a similar size and weight. I don't own the latter lens and I am undecided on whether I want to spend the money for that one.
Almost all my shooting falls into 35mm to 65mm with wider occasionally for landscapes.
What are your thoughts about this?
Peter
For AF lenses, I'm still pondering. Thanks for your inputs. I know you've been investigating best small optics for some time now. The Sony G-Trios are not my optical cup of tea, particularly for 61MPs FF, but surely nice and compact if that's the priority and I know many love the G-Trios. Just not me.
The Grip for the A7c R is nice too. I think that grip will make for a more balanced feel with the GM primes 24/35 and 50 1.4 for optimal Sony fast AF lens experience.
For me a fun experiment to research what would be my top three small and compact best IQ for the A7c R travel kit--still a work in progress, but will post when I get to some conclusion. I also need to investigate some of those iSigmas too. How have you found the AF response with the small Sigmas on Sony cameras?
I know you have been very satisfied doing zone focusing on the Leica. One of my thoughts about these upgraded A7Cxx bodies is that they might attract some photographers who also like Leicas. The way you are talking about using the Voigts on the C makes me think you might be finding some of what you get from Leica in what you anticipate getting with the C bodies?
I do however think Sony is getting closer to the much loved rangefinder style camera body style with the A7c series and some of the Voigts and Loxia lenses close the gap even further. I think these two new A7c models will sell very well just as Sony knows they will. Lot of people from other systems looking at these small "rangefinder style" bodies I think. But the camera size/style is only 50% of the experience IMO. Is Sony would just come with some top shelf, fast, tiny manual focus lenses for this A7c series, they wold clean up the market, til then the voigts, Loxia will do very well.
I just read a few of those comments too and frankly wasn't thinking about the A7c EVF resolution when I posted my comment. I've never used the A7c but EVF resolution can make a difference for critical Manual Focus.
From DPReview a7cR article:
"The viewfinder resolution remains the same at 2.36M dots (1024 x 768px) but with brightness that comes much closer to that of the a7R V's finder and improved viewfinder optics that deliver 0.7x magnification. This isn't huge, but it's a vast improvement on the 'postage stamp at the end of a corridor' effect that the a7C's 0.59x magnification gave."
Now I'm wondering about this for MF magnification too...
FWIW, Leica offers an external EVF for their rangefinder cameras. Their older EVF is a 2.4MP resolution ( not the best). I found that resolution just fine to punch in and focus peak with good results even at the faster apertures. Leica's newest external EVF is 3.7MP, so even better, but also not at the level of the best mirrorless EVFs. For instance the Sony A1/A7rV EVF resolution and clarity is so good, I typically turn off focus peaking and just punch in to even the finest details.
Aug 31, 2023 at 03:03 PM
p.15 #18Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
LBJ2 wrote:
Duly noted: "Pentax 77/1.8, 70/2.4, 43/1.9 and 40/2.8 with Monster adapter.
If you think you might want to dip your toe in these waters, I would try to pick up a 77/1.8 - gorgeous portrait rendering. The 70/2.4 is incredibly compact with similar rendering, but of course you give up a stop if that matters to you. Since Pentax has not been a world beater with new camera offerings and don't have any MILC offerings, my guess is you might be able to pick up used Pentax Limited lenses at a very significant discount to the prices of new lenses. The collapsing hoods that come with the lenses also add to the compactness of the camera/lens combo.
Duly noted: "Pentax 77/1.8, 70/2.4, 43/1.9 and 40/2.8 with Monster adapter.
If you think you might want to dip your toe in these waters, I would try to pick up a 77/1.8 - gorgeous portrait rendering. The 70/2.4 is incredibly compact with similar rendering, but of course you give up a stop if that matters to you. Since Pentax has not been a world beater with new camera offerings and don't have any MILC offerings, my guess is you might be able to pick up used Pentax Limited lenses at a very significant discount to the prices of new lenses. The collapsing hoods that come with the lenses also add to the compactness of the camera/lens combo.
Aug 31, 2023 at 03:37 PM
p.15 #19Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
FMTopFan wrote:
Does anyone have suggestions on how to deal with the flip out screen of the A7cR?
First, the flip out screen is a huge hindrance to street shooting. Not only does it extends the footprint of the camera, not good in crowds where space is tight, as someone or something could easily gets caught by the stupid extended screen, which at best would cause unexpected jerks or injury, or at worst injury and also loss of camera.
Also, for low angle shooting, since screen is extended way to the left side of the camera, if you are holding it out...Show more →
Just watch a couple of Pierre T Lamberts street photo videos, he uses the a7IV almost exclusively. Nothing you bring up is an actual issue in use. You just tweak the way you work a bit. You’re seriously overthinking it. It’s far better for any low or high angle shot because you’re not limited by the more restrictive tilt only angle.
If it bugs you that much just don’t buy it. I love the fully articulated screen, makes getting any shot, portrait or landscape orientation, much, much easier. And you can turn it around for storage or just to not see it. I seriously doubt we’ll ever see a different screen on the C line so it’s this or look elsewhere.
They nailed the design, it’s perfect for what it is.
Chris
Does anyone have suggestions on how to deal with the flip out screen of the A7cR?
First, the flip out screen is a huge hindrance to street shooting. Not only does it extends the footprint of the camera, not good in crowds where space is tight, as someone or something could easily gets caught by the stupid extended screen, which at best would cause unexpected jerks or injury, or at worst injury and also loss of camera.
Also, for low angle shooting, since screen is extended way to the left side of the camera, if you are holding it out...Show more →
Just watch a couple of Pierre T Lamberts street photo videos, he uses the a7IV almost exclusively. Nothing you bring up is an actual issue in use. You just tweak the way you work a bit. You’re seriously overthinking it. It’s far better for any low or high angle shot because you’re not limited by the more restrictive tilt only angle.
If it bugs you that much just don’t buy it. I love the fully articulated screen, makes getting any shot, portrait or landscape orientation, much, much easier. And you can turn it around for storage or just to not see it. I seriously doubt we’ll ever see a different screen on the C line so it’s this or look elsewhere.
They nailed the design, it’s perfect for what it is.
Chris
Aug 31, 2023 at 05:16 PM
p.15 #20Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
patotts wrote:
I do wish they would hire a real US designer who could influence the choice of EVF, screen, exact button placements, refine the menu, etc. It seems so trivial and obvious...
They did.
Its the same guy who designed the A7R5.
And if he is tasked to fix the 'complaints' of the A7CR, he'd end up with an A7R5, again.
That's how 'good' their UX designer is.
Jus kidding..
Edited on Aug 31, 2023 at 07:58 PM · View previous versions
I do wish they would hire a real US designer who could influence the choice of EVF, screen, exact button placements, refine the menu, etc. It seems so trivial and obvious...
They did.
Its the same guy who designed the A7R5.
And if he is tasked to fix the 'complaints' of the A7CR, he'd end up with an A7R5, again.
That's how 'good' their UX designer is.
Jus kidding..
Edited on Aug 31, 2023 at 07:58 PM · View previous versions
Aug 31, 2023 at 05:28 PM