p.11 #1 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
Shooting in Compressed Raw (M) give extra stop of dynamic range. Useful option in R.
treacle wrote:
In the end I ordered both the a7CII and the a7CR but I will cancel one before they ship. I just couldn’t decide. I think the CR is more fairly priced but the CII is overpriced by about $200-$300. I travel often and that is when I take 95% of my photos now but I’m not convinced I need 61 megapixels either.
p.11 #2 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
You mean there's nothing stopping me from doing it? I can assure you I have no expertise in producing EVF panels.
I think Sony Semiconductor is run as a separate division from the Imaging Products & Solutions division. So I'm not sure if it's a slam dunk that those who control the P&L for Sony Semiconductor would just whip up a new EVF panel if they didn't believe it had demand outside of the Sony Imaging Products & Solutions business. They would have the chops to do it, no doubt, but I'm not sure they'd do it just for the camera producing division. (I might have the divisions names messed up...companies reorganize all the time, but I do believe the EVF is produced by a different division within Sony than what produces the cameras. And I believe they do that partially so that they have autonomy to grow sales and profit and not just cater inwards across the portfolio of products they produce.)
But you are probably right, they probably had no reason to have not provided a higher resolution EVF, other than the desire to piss off a portion of their customer base. I mean if they had no valid reason to not provide a higher resolution panel, that seems to be the most logical explanation. The other possibility I guess is complete incompetence, but they were savvy enough to produce a product that seems to piqued interest in quite a few people.
I guess we'll never know if it was a legitimate decision on their part, incompetence, or a desire to stick it to their customers.
molson wrote:
It's reassuring to know that Richard Butler gets his information from unimpeachable sources like "panther fan"... .
There's no reason you can't keep the EVF the same size, and increase the resolution... just like we've been able to do going from 11mp to 61mp with the same 24x36 camera sensors.
p.11 #4 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
And to be clear, Molson makes me think of beer. Panther fan....well....I like panthars, they seem cool. But I'm not a Carolina Panthers fan. Not enough context to get a good opinion there. But I do like beer.
molson wrote:
Okay, but if you screw up, people on the forums will be mad at you despite that disclaimer...
p.11 #5 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
I just noticed something interesting. Many people have discussed how the a7CR comes with a grip which the A7C II does not. One thing I haven't seen discussed is how the a7CR also comes with a battery charger whereas the a7C II does not. If these accessories are important to you, it definitely narrows the financial gap between the two.
p.11 #6 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
tsdevine wrote:
And to be clear, Molson makes me think of beer. Panther fan....well....I like panthars, they seem cool. But I'm not a Carolina Panthers fan. Not enough context to get a good opinion there. But I do like beer.
What about the Florida Panthers? Molson Breweries is big into ice hockey...
p.11 #7 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
jaygould wrote:
After some more consideration, I am interested in switching my Canon R6 for one of these models, depending on how they work for video and as webcams. I want a camera that can "do it all" and the problem with my R6 is that it is very cumbersome to use as a webcam.
- It needs a dummy battery to be able to stream or record for a long time. If I connect a USB cable, it will not hold the charge of the battery while streaming or recording simultaneously. What about on these new Sonys? Will I have to use a dummy battery for these as well or will connecting it into the PC suffice?
- It needs proprietary software that costs $5/month in perpetuity. I know the A7Cii does not need this, but what about the A7Cr?
- It only streams in 720p or 1080p. No 4k. What about these cameras?
- What about overheating when used as webcams?
- Which one is better for video overall, A7Cii or A7Cr? Would a Canon R8 be even better?...Show more →
p.11 #9 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
I honestly think the EFCS issue is a bit overblown as it won't affect your every shot, but it's really personal, depending on what you shoot mostly (so far this year I have only 500/35k shots with SS equal or faster than 1/2000s and aperture equal or smaller than f/2 and ISO100, but then I don't live in a very sunny place ). To me the worst thing about it is that you need to constantly remember about it, as there's no mechanism that would switch between electronic and EFCS (and full mech if available). There are only 3 Sony cameras that handle this well and it's only because their readout speed is high enough to safely stay in electronic shutter nearly all of the time ...
Getting back to A7C, I personally wouldn't be comfortable shelling out this kind of $$$ for a camera with this kind of limitation. I was thinking of picking it up for travel, but how do I shoot my kids running around on the beach or splashing in the water? That's why I think it's an intentional limitation by Sony, so that A7C cameras are supposed to be a backup/sidekick to your main (Sony) camera...
I am unlucky to notice EFCS bokeh right away and I think I'd prefer to go back to APS-C then to deal with it .
p.11 #10 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
BrianP wrote:
I just noticed something interesting. Many people have discussed how the a7CR comes with a grip which the A7C II does not. One thing I haven't seen discussed is how the a7CR also comes with a battery charger whereas the a7C II does not. If these accessories are important to you, it definitely narrows the financial gap between the two.
It might also change the impression of the A7Cii price. FWIW, I already think it's too high. It might change how someone new to Sony looks at it, either not getting a charger or those moving from the small battery bodies. Not everyone is happy without a charger. Or cable(s)?
p.11 #11 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
molson wrote:
The EVF doesn't need to be bigger, it just needs to have more resolution - at least enough that you can actually tell if you have the subject in focus.
EXACTLY !!
Perhaps Sony's gotten head over heels with their shiny new AI AF tech to think that a higher resolution EVF is secondary. By using the lowest resolution EVF a 2nd time (with the A7Cii) and 3rd (with the A7CR), the A7C series is not meant for manual focusing users?
I hope they have not forgotten that a smaller / lighter camera PLUS smaller / lighter MANUAL FOCUSING lenses, is a lethal combination for travel.
p.11 #12 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
Sorry for interrupting the complaining.
Does anyone have any advice on the quickest path to getting my hands on an A7CR? My local camera dealer wants me to pay in advance but there’s no telling when they would get one. Should I preorder with B&H? Order from Best Buy? Amazon? I would appreciate any suggestions as I haven’t purchased a newly released camera in a long while.
p.11 #13 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
Jeff Kott wrote:
Sorry for interrupting the complaining.
Does anyone have any advice on the quickest path to getting my hands on an A7CR? My local camera dealer wants me to pay in advance but there’s no telling when they would get one. Should I preorder with B&H? Order from Best Buy? Amazon? I would appreciate any suggestions as I haven’t purchased a newly released camera in a long while.
Find a local store that lets you pay when you pick up. Hunts, our local store here in the greater Boston area, takes your name and puts you on the waiting list. A few days before the item arrives, they call to confirm you still want to be on the waiting list. They will tell you during the call whether or not they will have enough stock to fulfill your spot on the wait list. I have picked up the A7iii, Tamron 28-75G1 and 70-200GMii all on release day. I know that with the A7iii and Tamron that the waiting lists for those products at the national retailers was very long (I was on their waitlists as as well), and it was faster for me to fulfill locally. When the 70-200GMii was announced, I didn't even bother with B&H. My name went on the Hunts waitlist straight away and I was one of at least a dozen people who picked theirs up on release day. Then I spent the next few months shooting with it and reading here on FM reading how no one could get a copy...
p.11 #14 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
Jeff Kott wrote:
Sorry for interrupting the complaining.
Does anyone have any advice on the quickest path to getting my hands on an A7CR? My local camera dealer wants me to pay in advance but there’s no telling when they would get one. Should I preorder with B&H? Order from Best Buy? Amazon? I would appreciate any suggestions as I haven’t purchased a newly released camera in a long while.
Just buy one when they hit the store shelves. I doubt there will be any shortage of these cameras... although Sony may decide to only ship cameras bundled with kit lenses first, like they did with the A6700.
p.11 #15 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
Jeff Kott wrote:
Sorry for interrupting the complaining.
Does anyone have any advice on the quickest path to getting my hands on an A7CR? My local camera dealer wants me to pay in advance but there’s no telling when they would get one. Should I preorder with B&H? Order from Best Buy? Amazon? I would appreciate any suggestions as I haven’t purchased a newly released camera in a long while.
B&H is a good place to buy. They will take your order but not charge your credit card until it ships and it is easy to cancel if you change your mind. However, if you pay by Paypal or Apple or Google Pay, and probably anything other than a credit card, they will charge you immediately. Shipping they say will start October 12 if I remember, but it will be first ordered, first served.
I think demand is going to be quite high for this camera, so I would get your order in now.
p.11 #16 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
j4nu wrote:
Gerald Undone talks about this quite extensively:
(webcam & streaming chapter)
That was a great review. Thanks for posting it. It looks like the camera(s) will both be able to record/stream using a USB cable as well as do 4k 30p without additional software. That's great.
Now for video quality, do you guys think the A7Cii will be noticeably better? Since it oversamples from 7k down to 4k, where as the A7Cr doesn't do oversampling but pixel binning to reach 4k.
I obviously prefer 61mp to 33mp for photos. But if the video is considerably worse in the R, I may just go for the cheaper model.
p.11 #17 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
jaygould wrote:
That was a great review. Thanks for posting it. It looks like the camera(s) will both be able to record/stream using a USB cable as well as do 4k 30p without additional software. That's great.
Now for video quality, do you guys think the A7Cii will be noticeably better? Since it oversamples from 7k down to 4k, where as the A7Cr doesn't do oversampling but pixel binning to reach 4k.
I obviously prefer 61mp to 33mp for photos. But if the video is considerably worse in the R, I may just go for the cheaper model.
I want to get more into video so I was curious about this myself. From watching gerald undones A7iv and A7rv reviews, it seems like the A7iv has a sharper/crisper image because it downsamples, but has worse rolling shutter in 4k modes, until you get to 4k60 which requires 1.5x crop. A7rv still has nice video but because it's binned it's slightly less crisp but still excellent overall, however it has better rolling shutter in 4k modes, only has 1.2x crop for 4k60. The A7rV has worse rolling shutter in it's super35 video mode, whereas the A7iv is faster there.
In the end I opted for the R because I'd rather have less rolling shutter in full frame 4k30 & 4k60 modes than slightly sharper video.
p.11 #18 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
Fred Miranda wrote:
However, using an ND filter to slow down the shutter speed might not be the best choice, especially for capturing sports, wildlife, or fast-moving scenes that require very high speeds to freeze motion.
ND is bad not just for the above, but also in portraits sessions.
I care about maintaining "connection" with the subjects, especially if we are "on the move" from one scene to another that involve shutter speeds switching from really high to really low.
In these scenarios, there is no way I can break the flow by saying, "hold on, let me put on ND or remove ND."
By the time I am done, the flow and synergy would be gone. Why can't Sony implement some kind of "auto" mode to switch between the modes?
Is it true that Nikon has an "Auto switch" feature that toggles between full mechanical and EFCS? But I am not sure if it's designed for "bokeh" purposes or some other reasons.
p.11 #19 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
Not really disagreeing, but that's where magnetic filters are nice. It's like taking a lens cap on and off.
Still a big cognitive load to try to remember in the heat of the moment.
FMTopFan wrote:
ND is bad not just for the above, but also in portraits sessions.
I care about maintaining "connection" with the subjects, especially if we are "on the move" from one scene to another that involve shutter speeds switching from really high to really low.
In these scenarios, there is no way I can break the flow by saying, "hold on, let me put on ND or remove ND."
By the time I am done, the flow and synergy would be gone. Why can't Sony implement some kind of "auto" mode to switch between the modes?
Is it true that Nikon has an "Auto switch" feature that toggles between full mechanical and EFCS? But I am not sure if it's designed for "bokeh" purposes or some other reasons.
p.11 #20 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
tsdevine wrote:
I guess we'll never know if it was a legitimate decision on their part, incompetence, or a desire to stick it to their customers.
Even if we'll "never know," we might be able to get closer to the truth 3-4 years from now.
By then, based on the specs A7cR II, if it's released, and if a bigger and higher res EVF is still not included, we will have 3 years of sales data and user experience to evaluate which explanation is more likely than the other, I think.
The other possibility I guess is complete incompetence, but they were savvy enough to produce a product that seems to piqued interest in quite a few people.
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