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Archive 2023 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf

  
 
RoamingScott
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p.36 #1 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


bluehawaii wrote:
OK so if you are in M mode and don't use C and turn auto ISO OFF:

The camera is like a Nikon film camera. ISO dial sets your "box speed" and the shutter dial shutter speed. Then if you're shooting with a manual lens like the VZ 40/1.2 you can set aperture on the lens (and also view in the top aperture screen).

C means your switching one or part of a function to a modern style control without the external visual indicator.



Nobody is concerned about setting ISO with Auto ISO off, that's clearly what the dial is for.



Oct 16, 2023 at 03:56 PM
bluehawaii
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p.36 #2 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


With auto ISO on the dial sets base ISO.

Auto ISO off means you can use the dial as normal.

C mode is taking control away from the dial.

That's all there is to it isn't it?



RoamingScott wrote:
Nobody is concerned about setting ISO with Auto ISO off, that's clearly what the dial is for.




Oct 16, 2023 at 04:00 PM
shujert
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p.36 #3 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


It's a shame Nikon didn't learn anything from their implementation of the ISO dial on the Df ... that was equally as horrible.


Oct 16, 2023 at 04:10 PM
RoamingScott
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p.36 #4 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


I'm honestly impressed that one braindead simple detail of a camera cost Nikon $2000 from me. How many more I wonder?


Oct 16, 2023 at 04:37 PM
bluehawaii
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p.36 #5 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


With the Zfc you can't even assign Auto ISO to the function button. It's my menu or nothing and there's your Fn button used up.

At least now you can have it on the Fn button. Should be on the dial in the first place.






Oct 16, 2023 at 04:44 PM
highdesertmesa
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p.36 #6 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


bluehawaii wrote:
With auto ISO on the dial sets base ISO.

Auto ISO off means you can use the dial as normal.

C mode is taking control away from the dial.

That's all there is to it isn't it?





That's how I understand it, but I'm here to learn if there's more to it.

I would prefer to have more granular control over Auto ISO, but now that I understand how Nikon does ISO, at least I can work within their system. Not sure how I missed it, but there are two stops in either direction that the Auto ISO minimum shutter speed limit can be set for. That solves the only real operational issue I thought there might be.

I'll be using the Zf in Aperture Priority 95% of the time.

P = May never use this as I don't like using program-shift to control my settings
A = Auto ISO with minimum shutter speed limit set to Auto (-2).
S = Only will need to use to stop subject motion – will keep the SS dial preset to 1/2,000 so it's ready when I switch the PASM to S (this is one benefit of an independent PASM switch system – I don't have rotate the SS dial all the way from an auto setting to 1/2,000 sec.).
M = Auto ISO off, just for the retro film shooting experience.
AUTO = Handing it off to someone else to take a shot. I like that Nikon included a full auto idiot mode.




Oct 16, 2023 at 05:03 PM
chatcher
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p.36 #7 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


RoamingScott wrote:
Nobody is concerned about setting ISO with Auto ISO off, that's clearly what the dial is for.


…and I suspect not many users will want to go retro to the point of giving up Auto ISO. I’d sooner ignore the ISO dial altogether (I very well may).





Oct 16, 2023 at 05:04 PM
highdesertmesa
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p.36 #8 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


RoamingScott wrote:
I'm honestly impressed that one braindead simple detail of a camera cost Nikon $2000 from me. How many more I wonder?


As someone coming back to Nikon from the D700 and Df (basically having forgotten all about how digital Nikons work), it was honesty a bigger mental hurdle to understand their menu system and the intricacies of Auto ISO than it was to adapt to the PASM switch + dials. I'm two days in, and I'm using it as well as I do my M11M.

But I hear what you're saying. But my preference would have been for Auto on the dials PLUS Auto ISO working like it does with every other manufacturer.



Oct 16, 2023 at 05:08 PM
RoamingScott
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p.36 #9 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


Well it took the Nikon social media team a week to answer me on IG, but here it is from the source:

"In auto mode, rotate the ISO sensitivity dial to C. At the default settings for auto mode, the camera will adjust ISO sensitivity automatically to assist exposure control while the ISO dial is rotated to C."

Assuming we're going to use your retro dial camera in auto mode. Lord almighty, help me. At least it's obvious who this camera is aimed at with this response.



Oct 16, 2023 at 05:35 PM
bluehawaii
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p.36 #10 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


highdesertmesa wrote:
That's how I understand it, but I'm here to learn if there's more to it.

I would prefer to have more granular control over Auto ISO, but now that I understand how Nikon does ISO, at least I can work within their system. Not sure how I missed it, but there are two stops in either direction that the Auto ISO minimum shutter speed limit can be set for. That solves the only real operational issue I thought there might be.

I'll be using the Zf in Aperture Priority 95% of the time.

P = May never use this as I don't like
...Show more

I do pretty much the same.

The only other things I set up are just:

Easy Exposure Compensation to “On, auto reset”. And I have the Exposure Compensation Dial set to C, and then to the front dial because I prefer the feel of having it there, and I like the auto reset function when turning off the camera.

Video record button in stills mode set to “live view info display off” to toggle a clean live image once exposure has been set for a series of shots. And even in that simplified view I can still occasionally use 8mm centre weighted or spot in conjunction with the Ae-L (Hold).

I wasn't sure about the ISO dial lock at first. Ken Rockwell in his review video of the Zfc manages to turn it and unlock it with one finger simultaneously – either that or he removed the lock.





Oct 16, 2023 at 05:50 PM
highdesertmesa
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p.36 #11 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


bluehawaii wrote:
I do pretty much the same.

The only other things I set up are just:

Easy Exposure Compensation to “On, auto reset”. And I have the Exposure Compensation Dial set to C, and then to the front dial because I prefer the feel of having it there, and I like the auto reset function when turning off the camera.

Video record button in stills mode set to “live view info display off” to toggle a clean live image once exposure has been set for a series of shots. And even in that simplified view I can still occasionally use 8mm centre
...Show more

For the one-hand dial unlocking, use your index finger to push down the center silver button while your thumb and middle finger grip the dial and turn it to unlock.



Oct 16, 2023 at 06:28 PM
ilkka_nissila
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p.36 #12 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


RoamingScott wrote:
Well it took the Nikon social media team a week to answer me on IG, but here it is from the source:

"In auto mode, rotate the ISO sensitivity dial to C. At the default settings for auto mode, the camera will adjust ISO sensitivity automatically to assist exposure control while the ISO dial is rotated to C."

Assuming we're going to use your retro dial camera in auto mode. Lord almighty, help me. At least it's obvious who this camera is aimed at with this response.


Right, so in Auto mode, the ISO dial works in the following way (if Auto ISO is ON). Dial set to C: Auto ISO is used; the camera selects ISO to satisfy exposure considerations. Dial set to fixed ISO value: camera uses the selected ISO and adjusts exposure using shutter speed and aperture.

Auto seems to override most things but not the ISO dial. ;-) It also doesn't override the separation of autofocus and the shutter button, so if you hand over the camera to someone not used to AF-ON use, just selecting Auto on the PASMAuto lever doesn't make the autofocus happen on the shutter button; you also have to restore the autofocus to shutter button explicitly from the custom settings.

In PASM modes, if Auto ISO is ON, ISO dial only gives the starting point for ISO and if the camera can achieve correct exposure via the freedom of shutter speed and aperture selection allowed, it will first do that before adjusting the ISO from the user-selected choice on the dial. If the dial is set to C, the user selected ISO is entered via any of the four other methods.

If Auto ISO is OFF, the camera will follow the ISO dial selected ISO unless it is C, in which case the other methods are used to set ISO.

While these seem strange choices by the designers, there is enough freedom in customisation in the camera to make it workable. I'm not at all concerned about the way Auto ISO works in this camera; by setting Fn to My Menu and Auto ISO ON/OFF to the top My Menu choice, I can toggle Auto ISO via two button presses: Fn followed by OK. This is not any slower than when using the conventional method where I use ISO button press followed by turning the sub-command dial to activate/inactivate Auto ISO on other Nikon cameras. In fact I keep Fn2 set to My Many on most of my cameras so that I can access a priority list of menu settings quickly.

The autofocus and VR are excellent on the Zf, and battery life is very good using the EN-EL15c. While the user interface is full of curiosities, it has in fact encouraged me to experiment more with settings and for some things it's more convenient than the modern interface on most high-end Nikons. For example, if I'm alternating between photographing people and the location, I can set the shutter dial to 1/500s for the moving people shots, it's fast enough to freeze most walking and casual movement while keeping ISO requirements moderate. I access this via either M or S modes on the PASM lever. If it is low light I typically set the lens wide open and use M with auto ISO for this. When I want to get shots of the location, I can switch the lever to P, and it'll typically stop the lens down a bit (to f/3.5 or so, if wide open is f/1.8) and use a slower shutter speed suitable for hand-held shots of static subjects. So it's convenient for location images where freezing motion is not mandatory. On a Z8, to do this, I would need a two-handed operation (access MODE and turn dial to P) or if MODE is set to a custom function button, twisting fingers. The PASMAuto lever is quicker and easier for this. I could of course achieve a similar result by adjusting the aperture and shutter speed manually but this is even more time-consuming and going back to motion-freezing settings also takes a bit more time. Auto ISO Auto minimum shutter speed setting makes the use of P more viable as I can adjust the preference of the camera's own choice of minimum shutter speed up or down, depending on the requirements of the situation, though making a menu dive is required to adjust that. If the shutter speed and ISO dials had A settings, the camera would not remember the shutter speed previously selected by the user (when in another mode). So I find that while the user interface used by Nikon is arguably more complex, it facilitates mode-hopping while preserving information about what was previously used in those modes.

For tripod-based shooting of locations, involving more drastic changes to optimize image quality, one still needs to do a settings overhaul i.e. go to aperture priority, set aperture to f/11, and ISO to base ISO (100), turn on the ML-L7 remote, and take shots. This is a bit more complicated than ideal, so having a separate landscape camera where the settings are already set to appropriate for those applications may be an easier approach, finances permitting.



Oct 17, 2023 at 05:28 AM
chatcher
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p.36 #13 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


I don’t intend to criticize the UI of the camera. The complexity of designing a modern camera with retro controls requires choices that won’t please everyone. The ISO dial with auto ISO off works just like one would expect. Auto ISO with the dial in C works just like one would expect. Switching between the two is a bit awkward, and the interaction between auto ISO and dial settings other than C can seem a little strange.

We use the camera we have and not the one we might wish for. The Zf fulfilled so much of my wish list that I’m not going to let a small change in the way I adjust ISO spoil the experience.



Oct 17, 2023 at 07:46 AM
1bwana1
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p.36 #14 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


Are there Banks or saved, named settings available in the Zf?


Oct 17, 2023 at 10:17 AM
bcaslis
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p.36 #15 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


There are no banks or user modes for saving information in the Zf that I can find.



Oct 17, 2023 at 10:34 AM
RoamingScott
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p.36 #16 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


Manny has a great visual explanation of Nikon's absolute inanity with this camera's control scheme.

https://streamable.com/c01ysg



Oct 17, 2023 at 01:35 PM
JadedWriter
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p.36 #17 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


I'm on crack and have a Fuji X-H2S. I don't shoot auto iso anymore because I can't even find exposure comp on that camera so shooting on a ZF...honestly wouldn't mess with me too much. Didn't even shoot auto iso on Fuji when I had the dial centric cameras.
RoamingScott wrote:
Manny has a great visual explanation of Nikon's absolute inanity with this camera's control scheme.

https://streamable.com/c01ysg





Oct 17, 2023 at 01:39 PM
kwalsh
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p.36 #18 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


RoamingScott wrote:
Manny has a great visual explanation of Nikon's absolute inanity with this camera's control scheme.

https://streamable.com/c01ysg


Yeah, I really hadn't paid attention to all this with the Zfc because I wasn't interested in APS-C and no-IBIS. But I did give the Zf a look and at first I mostly thought the main issue was native lenses not having aperture rings. Digging deeper this PASM + dedicated dials just struck me as a really bizarre design decision. The linked video illustrates it well - a little lever on one side of the top plate suddenly makes a giant high contrast dial on the other side of the body essentially lie to the user. Borderline pathological UI design.

But anyway, no doubt regular users will work around it just like we seem to work around a variety of foibles each manufacturer insists on adding to their interfaces.

Sorry to yuck anyone's yum! (as they used to say in my daughter's kindergarten class)



Oct 17, 2023 at 02:17 PM
JustShootMe
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p.36 #19 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


kwalsh wrote:
Yeah, I really hadn't paid attention to all this with the Zfc because I wasn't interested in APS-C and no-IBIS. But I did give the Zf a look and at first I mostly thought the main issue was native lenses not having aperture rings. Digging deeper this PASM + dedicated dials just struck me as a really bizarre design decision. The linked video illustrates it well - a little lever on one side of the top plate suddenly makes a giant high contrast dial on the other side of the body essentially lie to the user. Borderline pathological UI design.

But
...Show more

I used the Zfc for about 6 months or so , I can't say that the auto ISO implementation is much of an issue. You just get use to it , every camera is a bit different. 2 seconds to jump into a menu aint gonna ruin anything , people just like complaining. If that's the worst of the complaints, Nikon has a hit on their hands.



Oct 17, 2023 at 02:23 PM
highdesertmesa
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p.36 #20 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


RoamingScott wrote:
Manny has a great visual explanation of Nikon's absolute inanity with this camera's control scheme.

https://streamable.com/c01ysg


The mistake he made in the video actually illustrates why PASM can be less confusing. He put the shutter dial to "Auto" and said he was in shutter priority mode. Nope, switching shutter to Auto means APERTURE priority, and he had to correct that with text overlay on the video. With the Fujifilm setup, you have to have different combinations of dials in Auto mode to attain a given priority mode that is not necessarily associated with the dial name that was set to Auto. There is no labeling for modes. You just have to know or learn these from the nanny program mode cameras from the late film era.

Saying "Aperture Priority" or "Shutter Priority" is a PASM mindset.


Edited on Oct 17, 2023 at 02:51 PM · View previous versions



Oct 17, 2023 at 02:29 PM
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