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Archive 2023 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf

  
 
jlafferty
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p.30 #1 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


Agreed, verbatim.

BPsmith511 wrote:
Man, Scott I generally appreciate your posting, and you take great photos, but when you don't like something, you are extremely negative about it, almost to the point of being condescending. It is OK for other people to like cameras and styles you don't.




Sep 26, 2023 at 05:02 AM
kwalsh
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p.30 #2 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


BPsmith511 wrote:
Man, Scott I generally appreciate your posting, and you take great photos, but when you don't like something, you are extremely negative about it, almost to the point of being condescending. It is OK for other people to like cameras and styles you don't. The camera clearly isn't for everyone, but there's not really a point to keep coming back into this thread and bashing a camera that isn't even in the wild yet simply because it doesn't align with things you'd want in a camera.


It is the very common combination of the false consensus effect combined with illusory superiority that is typical for a significant subset of prolific forum posters. Scott is kind of a poster child for it. These are very common and well understood cognitive biases, so you just kind of have to put up with them and remember they are wired to varying degrees in all of our brains. Take the good and ignore the bad from each of us and don’t expect much change from anyone.



Sep 26, 2023 at 05:45 AM
RoamingScott
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p.30 #3 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


You can't lead everyone to water, no matter how hard you try, this much is true

If people want to buy a $2000 niche camera for brass dials, or dump their existing gear and buy multiple no grip niche cameras for wedding shooting, those are their battles to fight, I don't give a damn. Some of those people are in for some pain, I think, but if you can't hear sense, that's not MY defect.



Sep 26, 2023 at 08:26 AM
JustShootMe
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p.30 #4 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


RoamingScott wrote:
You can't lead everyone to water, no matter how hard you try, this much is true

If people want to buy a $2000 niche camera for brass dials, or dump their existing gear and buy multiple no grip niche cameras for wedding shooting, those are their battles to fight, I don't give a damn. Some of those people are in for some pain, I think, but if you can't hear sense, that's not MY defect.


Just because YOU think it's true, does not make it so. Again with the negative comments about gear you've never touched. There's 1000's of Leica users who don't agree with your judgment , so they are all wrong as well ?



Sep 26, 2023 at 08:55 AM
Jman13
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p.30 #5 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


BPsmith511 wrote:
Man, Scott I generally appreciate your posting, and you take great photos, but when you don't like something, you are extremely negative about it, almost to the point of being condescending. It is OK for other people to like cameras and styles you don't. The camera clearly isn't for everyone, but there's not really a point to keep coming back into this thread and bashing a camera that isn't even in the wild yet simply because it doesn't align with things you'd want in a camera.


Almost? He's being extremely condescending. It's just pure failure to accept that not everyone has the same opinions, needs and wants.



Sep 26, 2023 at 09:10 AM
BPsmith511
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p.30 #6 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


RoamingScott wrote:
You can't lead everyone to water, no matter how hard you try, this much is true

If people want to buy a $2000 niche camera for brass dials, or dump their existing gear and buy multiple no grip niche cameras for wedding shooting, those are their battles to fight, I don't give a damn. Some of those people are in for some pain, I think, but if you can't hear sense, that's not MY defect.


Who are you to "lead someone to water", as if other people's joy found in cameras has to match your own? Some people think an overpriced APS-C box with a fixed 35mm lens is a waste of money but they aren't coming into threads and hating on you for it, are they?

Different people like different things, and that is totally OK. What makes sense to you doesn't have to make sense to others.



Sep 26, 2023 at 09:12 AM
rick_reno
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p.30 #7 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


RoamingScott wrote:
You can't lead everyone to water, no matter how hard you try, this much is true

If people want to buy a $2000 niche camera for brass dials, or dump their existing gear and buy multiple no grip niche cameras for wedding shooting, those are their battles to fight, I don't give a damn. Some of those people are in for some pain, I think, but if you can't hear sense, that's not MY defect.


For someone “who doesn’t give a damn” you’ve sure got a lot to say. Does this mean you will finally Shut the f**k up?




Sep 26, 2023 at 09:44 AM
RexGig0
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p.30 #8 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


Had the Zf been simply a Z6 with a retro top and front, in the way that the Df was a re-done D600-series, I would have simply ignored it. It does appear, however, that the Zf is an improved Z6 II, rather than a feature-deleted Z6 II. Not saying that I will buy a Zf, but, it has my attention, and could be my entry into the Z-mount system. (The other leading Z contender is the Z9. Low-light nature photography is important to my wife and me, because we often participate in night-t-time insect counting events.)

As for griplessness, well, I learned to stop chasing new cameras, based upon the ergonomics of their right-hand gripping areas being a good match for my aging right thumb and fingers. If I want to do much one-handed shooting, I’ll just bring a D4s or D5*, with a relatively compact lens, and be done with it. My healthier left hand is what normally supports the weight of the camera and lens, with the “add-on” grip, for compact and medium cameras being the lens.

Actually, the Df allows using pre-AI lenses to be used on a DSLR, a technically useful feature. When I finally located a really clean copy of the pre-AI 20mm lens I was seeking, however, it had been expertly converted to AI. So, our Df has been used only rarely, and when I use it, I think it has always been with a Micro-Nikkor AF-S 60mm f/2.8G.

*The ergonomic tweaks, that appeared on the D4s, made a huge difference, and influenced my further shift toward Nikon becoming my primary SLR system.

Edited on Sep 26, 2023 at 02:49 PM · View previous versions



Sep 26, 2023 at 10:18 AM
RoamingScott
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p.30 #9 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


rick_reno wrote:
For someone “who doesn’t give a damn” you’ve sure got a lot to say. Does this mean you will finally Shut the f**k up?



So far it's trending towards unlikely.

Anyone is free to hide me, just as I'm free to speak my mind. Isn't that cool?

Condescension, by the way, would be calling people Zf buyers stupid. I never said that. I said that Nikon themselves made some dumb decisions with the design and the camera could have been immediately better in a number of ways. If anyone is fine with the final Zf, that's great and they'll enjoy the camera and it will make great pics. I said that from the start.

However, I think it's obvious that people contemplating dumping their wedding rigs for dual Zfs deserves a fair warning and a second thought opinion from anyone in Nikonland who has experience.

Edited on Sep 26, 2023 at 10:33 AM · View previous versions



Sep 26, 2023 at 10:25 AM
Ross Martin
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p.30 #10 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


Ricci’s DIY brassed Zf







Sep 26, 2023 at 10:33 AM
RoamingScott
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p.30 #11 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


Ross Martin wrote:
Ricci’s DIY brassed Zf


How long until we see paid services to do this



Sep 26, 2023 at 10:34 AM
CKrueger
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p.30 #12 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


The inability (or unwillingness) to speak opinions as opinions, and facts as facts is endemic to society at this point.

I don’t want to shut out opinions simply because they differ from my own, but the place I landed was this: I am happy to be challenged by those who disagree with me, but at some point I have to weigh the wasting of my free time reading disingenuous missives against the distaste for the personal “shadow ban” of ignoring people.



Sep 26, 2023 at 10:50 AM
Desmolicious
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p.30 #13 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


RoamingScott wrote:
So far it's trending towards unlikely.

Anyone is free to hide me, just as I'm free to speak my mind. Isn't that cool?

Condescension, by the way, would be calling people Zf buyers stupid. I never said that. I said that Nikon themselves made some dumb decisions with the design and the camera could have been immediately better in a number of ways. If anyone is fine with the final Zf, that's great and they'll enjoy the camera and it will make great pics. I said that from the start.

However, I think it's obvious that people contemplating dumping their wedding rigs
...Show more

People get so upset! I get that technically it may not be a good move for some people. But for someone like me, who primarily is a film shooter, and who's primary digital camera is a Leica M (I just use my Z7 to scan film as I don't find it much fun to use), the ZF looks pretty sweet.
My #1 reason to pick/use a camera is will I enjoy using it? #2 will I enjoy using AND will it give me the results I'd be happy with?
The ZF leans to Yes.



Sep 26, 2023 at 10:50 AM
Desmolicious
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p.30 #14 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


Ross Martin wrote:
Ricci’s DIY brassed Zf


Sold as an Open Box return on Amazon.



Sep 26, 2023 at 10:51 AM
RoamingScott
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p.30 #15 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


Desmolicious wrote:
People get so upset! I get that technically it may not be a good move for some people. But for someone like me, who primarily is a film shooter, and who's primary digital camera is a Leica M (I just use my Z7 to scan film as I don't find it much fun to use), the ZF looks pretty sweet.
My #1 reason to pick/use a camera is will I enjoy using it? #2 will I enjoy using AND will it give me the results I'd be happy with?
The ZF leans to Yes.


Oddly, if the Zf was F-mount, I would have been so much more intrigued that would solve as many problems as it creates, I guess. I wonder how much thicker an F body in that shape would have to be.



Sep 26, 2023 at 10:55 AM
Ross Martin
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p.30 #16 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


RoamingScott wrote:
Oddly, if the Zf was F-mount, I would have been so much more intrigued that would solve as many problems as it creates, I guess. I wonder how much thicker an F body in that shape would have to be.


That would have been intriguing to me as well, probably looking much like the old Df but perhaps not as thick. Native mount of gorgeously built F mount legacy glass, yummy. My AI-S 55mm f/2.8 Micro has been lonely for a few years.




Sep 26, 2023 at 11:15 AM
Max Power
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p.30 #17 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


RexGig0 wrote:
Had the Zf been simply a Z6 with a retro top and front, in the way that the Df was a re-done D600-series, I would have simply ignored it. It does appear, however, that the Zf is an improved Z6 II, rather than a feature-deleted Z6 II. Not saying that I will buy a Zf, but, it has my attention, and could be my entry into the Z-mount system. (The other leading Z contender is the Z9. Low-light nature photography is important to my wife and me, because we often participate in night-t-time insect counting events.)

As for griplessness, well, I
...Show more

To be fair, I think with the D4 sensor, the Df was a little more than just a re-bodied D600. Many people bought that camera for the sensor that was only available in a $6000 camera up until that point, and I think that sensor might be why the Df was overpriced in many people's minds.

It is still the only decent DSLR that I have left, mostly for compatibility with older lenses, but after having it as a primary camera for a couple of years, this retro thing, well, its not for everybody. I was more frustrated by its quirks that any other FF Nikon I have owned.



Sep 26, 2023 at 11:31 AM
Desmolicious
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p.30 #18 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


RoamingScott wrote:
Oddly, if the Zf was F-mount, I would have been so much more intrigued that would solve as many problems as it creates, I guess. I wonder how much thicker an F body in that shape would have to be.


The body itself wouldn't have to be thicker. The lens mount section would just have to protrude further.



Sep 26, 2023 at 11:47 AM
1bwana1
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p.30 #19 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


Proof again that Nikon knows it's user base, who I think tend to be more toward the traditional than users of brands such as Sony and Canon.

The Z9 designed to appeal to their former pro DSLR users. Sold out for a long time.

The Z8 designed to appeal to their former D850 user base. Sold out for Months, still huge demand.

Now the retro designed Zf is sold out on release, and expected to be backordered for some time. This despite what frequent switchers like our beloved Scott says about it. !

https://nikonrumors.com/2023/09/26/nikon-japan-nikon-zf-in-short-supply.aspx/

Contrast this to the Z6/7 and other Nikon more contemporary mirrorless designs that for years underperformed the market sales wise, and cost the company huge market share.


I am not saying that the appeal of the Zf is limited to existing Nikon users. I know a number of Leica, and Fuji users who are seriously looking at it as well. Once it is out in the field in some volume, the actual shooting experience will likely decide things for them. Lenses likely to be one of the key factors. I admit to be looking forward to get some time on one myself.



Sep 26, 2023 at 01:54 PM
RoamingScott
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p.30 #20 · Let's talk about the Nikon Zf


1bwana1 wrote:
Now the retro designed Zf is sold out on release, and expected to be backordered for some time. This despite what frequent switchers like our beloved Scott says about it. !


If you'd actually read anything I said, it was that I expected an onslaught of used bodies to hit the market in 6 months. I actually said it would sell well because Nikon users are so hungry for something well beyond the Z6/Z7 capabilities.

You have to be snide as usual. Sad.



Sep 26, 2023 at 02:01 PM
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