p.3 #1 · D850 still takes a better picture than z8/9, change my mind.
JadedWriter wrote:
Depends on the lens. I used the Sigma 40 1.4 for like a month on the Z7II and Z9 just fine and the moment I put it on the D850 I had to AF fine tune it. I have to do "something" with the Sigma 50 1.4 as well, because that thing don't look right on a lot of the DSLR's that I have same will probably be said about the Sigma 85 1.4 and 135 1.8 as well if I ever get those.
This is perhaps the absolute best thing about mirrorless, IMO. I recently started shooting a D750 for a few weeks (sort of an experiment), and dear god, having to fine tune AF, and deal with the minor precision issues with the DSLR is just painful after shooting mirrorless for a decade+. (note: I am NOT switching back to a DSLR permanently, as while I am enjoying my little experiment, all the mirrorless advantages add up, and I'm finding a lot of small annoyances that affect how many good shots I'm able to get without wasting frames.)
p.3 #2 · D850 still takes a better picture than z8/9, change my mind.
I have a D4, D5, D850 and D810. I don't have time to fine tune multiple lenses across multiple bodies and you can't even use the same fine tune measurement across them Jman13 wrote:
This is perhaps the absolute best thing about mirrorless, IMO. I recently started shooting a D750 for a few weeks (sort of an experiment), and dear god, having to fine tune AF, and deal with the minor precision issues with the DSLR is just painful after shooting mirrorless for a decade+. (note: I am NOT switching back to a DSLR permanently, as while I am enjoying my little experiment, all the mirrorless advantages add up, and I'm finding a lot of small annoyances that affect how many good shots I'm able to get without wasting frames.)
p.3 #3 · D850 still takes a better picture than z8/9, change my mind.
1- D850
2- Z9
time differential 4 years same location
D850
Z9
Jun 07, 2023 at 10:57 AM
AmbientMike Offline • • • • • • [X]
p.3 #4 · D850 still takes a better picture than z8/9, change my mind.
Alistair1 wrote:
TBH I'm not seeing any differences in these images. Apart from the DPR shot posted above which shows severe purple fringing of the lens used. Maybe it's my monitor or maybe I am not looking long and hard enough.
But is the purple fringing or lack thereof due to glass or lens corrections
p.3 #5 · D850 still takes a better picture than z8/9, change my mind.
Kasper6188 wrote:
These examples reflect my personal experience of shooting 100's of thousands of wildlife images with all sorts of different gear, not scientific. Everyone is going to have their own opinion of what a better image is or isn't and that is perfectly ok, it is immeasurable. I was mainly looking to see if anyone else had noticed any of these things and should have worded my thread as more of a question, but my thread would probably have fallen into obscurity at that point.
I really cannot see any difference in the images posted at the size they are posted. Maybe if we could see the full rez images then we would see what you see?
p.3 #6 · D850 still takes a better picture than z8/9, change my mind.
Alistair1 wrote:
I really cannot see any difference in the images posted at the size they are posted. Maybe if we could see the full rez images then we would see what you see?
Those are posted to flickr full resolution, depending on your browser and monitor they may not display optimally though. If you save them you could flop between them with whatever you use as a photo viewer though.
p.3 #8 · D850 still takes a better picture than z8/9, change my mind.
Kasper6188 wrote:
Those are posted to flickr full resolution, depending on your browser and monitor they may not display optimally though. If you save them you could flop between them with whatever you use as a photo viewer though.
OK, gotcha. I can see the differences now in the first two photos of the dog. It's definitely there. Would be interested to understand if this is purely down to the difference between the sensors or something else is at play. We do expect a penalty from stacked sensors and even from the non-stacked on-sensor AF.
p.3 #9 · D850 still takes a better picture than z8/9, change my mind.
I think eyeAF spoilt those of us who are into portraiture, I love the accuracy of the system, compared to D-SLR, even tho not perfect yet or maybe just better in the higher end models but, on the other hand, the D850 with certain lenses still gives me great photos and quite a thrill when I use it, yes, maybe also because I know there is not many keepers when shooting fully open but, still, I like photography also because of this...
p.3 #10 · D850 still takes a better picture than z8/9, change my mind.
RoamingScott wrote:
Are you using Adobe Color on the Z9 file profile? If yes, you're doing it wrong.
Any test like this would need to be indoors with consistent light regardless. Your white balance and exposures are quite different.
I saw this relatively old comment today and am very curious what is meant by it. What is the more "correct" way to do it? I have been trying to get Lightroom to render colors/shadows from the RAW files of my Z8 more in line with how the camera renders them, which looks more correct to me, but have found the camera profiles not to work very well.
p.3 #11 · D850 still takes a better picture than z8/9, change my mind.
Plot twist: once exported/compressed to JPEG and displayed online, Z or F mount bodies produce basically the same image IF you took the same photo (below).
to me the issue, is whether the Z tech allows you to take the photo you want. I sold my D850 when I realized with the full funtionality of the rear screen and EVF, I dont have to throw myself to the ground to take a low angle photo. NO more ruined shirts and pants for me. started with Z7, now with z9.
p.3 #12 · D850 still takes a better picture than z8/9, change my mind.
Kasper6188 wrote:
So, after using the z9 since release and retiring my D850 to the storage bin I decided to take it out a few weeks back and start shooting with the ole girl again. Obviously the z8/9 has many advantages over the d850 with all the mirrorless tech and all, but ultimate image quality doesn't seem to be one of them, to me at least. Specifically the color and fine detail retained in the shadows.
My scientifically un-scientific test, both shot on 70-200FL, raw, imported into LR, and exported as full quality jpg, no other changes.
Pic 1: z8, iso500 (supposedly where dual gain kicks in and things get better?)
Pic 2: d850 iso800
Pixel peep the shadow area by her collar tag, for being shot at higher iso, sure seems cleaner to me. Am I crazy? (don't answer that) Could it be LR and how it's handling the Z files?
I do agree with you. I shot my D850 steadily/exclusively from 2018 and up until August 2023 when I received the Z8.
! feel my D850 files are better than the files from my Z8. Not complaining about the Z8 though. And honestly I love the Z8.
I still have much to learn about the Z8 and for me.... that only comes by using it. "Down the road", perhaps I will have more to say even change my mind.
p.3 #14 · D850 still takes a better picture than z8/9, change my mind.
Steve201 wrote:
I couldn't agree more. this is what im seeing with my z711, glad I kept the d850.
Image output is customizable , if you are shooting jpegs you have options in camera, if you are shooting raw you have options in post , as well as in camera. Surely Nikon has tweaked the output between models, as does every other manufacturer. Spend time learning the camera, and what works for you , and you will get results that meet your expectations if you put in the time. It's not likely that image quality went backwards from D850 to Z7ii , just different.
p.3 #15 · D850 still takes a better picture than z8/9, change my mind.
There is a reason the top 5 camera sensors tested on dxo are all "old" (except the leica M11). Lack of on sensor PDAF and being non-stacked. Both of those features do add a plethora of capabilities that would be hard for most people to trade-off for marginal IQ improvements though. Glad we have choices!
p.3 #16 · D850 still takes a better picture than z8/9, change my mind.
Simple answer -- first, the word "better" is subjective in the mind of the holder, and second, since your statement acknowledges the D850 being better is already a fact in your "mind," nobody is likely to ever change your mind.
p.3 #17 · D850 still takes a better picture than z8/9, change my mind.
Totally agree, photography as a whole is one big melting pot of subjective opinion. Sharpness, bokeh, color rendition, tonal gradation, megapixels, fps, the fuel that sparked the perpetual motion we are all stuck in. Once you start you can’t stop! I was basically looking to see if anyone was seeing the same things I am. If I’m being honest I shoot with a Z8 or a Z9 80% of the time just because of the quality of life improvements. Every now and again though I still have to drag the hydraulic jack out to help lift my jaw off the floor when getting to the computer after an outing with the ole girl, Dee Eightfiddy.
p.3 #18 · D850 still takes a better picture than z8/9, change my mind.
Mirrorless cameras use on sensor pixels for focusing. Those pixels are not used to output images. Therefore, these AF pixels become “dead” pixels. The camera then “clone” the light that the effective pixels capture and replicate and fill the “dead” pixels. Hence, we do see slight image quality differences. Because modern sensors contain so many pixels, we are talking about millions, so the ones that used for af (probably in the 10s thousands) are insignificant enough for most people to notice any difference. A DSLR has a dedicated AF sensor so the image sensor is fully effective and dedicated for outputting images.
Edit: this is just one of the many reasons affecting IQ. As someone else has mentioned, a fast readout sensor also affects IQ to some degrees as well.
p.3 #19 · D850 still takes a better picture than z8/9, change my mind.
I’ve had nothing but admiration for the Z9 since the day I configured it. Having said that I do miss my D850.
I had to choose between keeping the D850 and D5 when in acquired my Z9. I chose the D5 both as a sports backup and because I didn’t feel I needed two 45mpx cameras at the time.
I can’t help but think now that the D850 would have been a decent backup and would have been turned into a full time landscape camera. The D5, while still very useful, just doesn’t get the use that l think the D850 would have.
The Z9 makes me happy every time I use it though.
same will probably be said about the Sigma 85 1.4 and 135 1.8 as well if I ever get those.
"Down the road", perhaps I will have more to say even change my mind.