p.6 #2 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
PIOK wrote:
I like this comment from Steve Perry _____. 43m 24sec - 46m 26 sec
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Steve goes into way more detail of how he reached that conclusion in this fairly recent video. For his use case, the lenses trump the A1's superior features in other areas and for his use case the AF systems are close enough to let the lenses decide for him:
p.6 #3 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
More expensive than what? As of today, an A1 is 48% more expensive than a not-yet-available Z8, and only 14% more expensive than a Z9.
Again, please show me the photo that an A1 could capture but a Z9 couldn’t.
I can't, because I didn't keep any of the photos where the Z9 lost focus on the subject and jumped to the background...
If you're a dedicated Nikon shooter, the Z9 (and probably the Z8) are the best you are going to get, so why not be happy with them, instead of all this whinging and hand-wringing trying to convince yourselves the Sony and Canon cameras are suddenly so bad?...Show more →
Not sure how you’re calculating. In USD the Sony A1 with grip and 2nd battery is 26% more than the Z9 at (6500 + 350 + 79) / 5500 = 1.2598. The grip is added to the A1 to match the Z9 functionality. Or 6500/4000 = 1.62 for the A1 vs. Z8.
I have not penalized the A1 for the increased cost per gigabyte of memory of Type A CFexpress.
p.6 #4 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
most people don't need the grip (the Sony A1 can deliver more shots than the Z8 and with grip can potentially deliver more than the Z9)... and used Sony A1 prices go for around $4600 to $5000, comparable to the Z9 used, and not $6500 so your pricing is more theoretical than actually.
p.6 #5 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
arbitrage wrote:
I'd say in some ways Z8 is better and some ways A9II still is better.
Z8 has more subject detect options including birds. A9II just cats/dogs and humans.
A9II I think still has an ease of use advantage with the Wide and Zone AF modes (non-tracking) being able to acquire subjects easier at distance, over complicated backgrounds and moving onto complicated backgrounds.
I think when the Z8 has acquired and is tracking your intended subject properly its hit rate is as good and probably better than A9II. It is getting to the point of acquiring and tracking that is more difficult compared to A9II.
Z8 still requires clunky handoff AF methods and it is no good at all at distant subjects or subjects over more complicated backgrounds.
That said, if Nikon lenses are what you want, I wouldn't not go Nikon because of Z8 AF. Z8 AF is still very good and can get you any shot you are after, just not as easily as A9II for fast action.
**all my "Z8" opinions are based on my ownership of Z9**
**it has been 2 years since I shot the A9II so my memory may not be the best and I've never had A9II directly beside Z9**...Show more →
Now, wait a second, is it “no good at all,” or is it slightly worse than an A1? And is it “no good at all” with all subjects or only swallows? Or is it slightly worse (in your opinion) with swallows or all subjects? These kinds of all-encompassing comments make the Z9/8 sound worse than a D850, and give the impression that moving to mirrorless on the Nikon side is a waste of time. Based your recent comments in the Z9 thread, however, I have to assume this is a pretty big overstatement? Indeed, I have to say, the only photos I’ve seen in the entire A1 thread that would be difficult to obtain with a D850 and my 20 year old 500mm f/4 (WITH STEPPER MOTORS, my god, the horror!) are swallows. There’s not much else that causes an issue: flying ducks, puffins, terns, owls, stilts, etc.
I think you’re pickier, more demanding, and spend more time in the field than 99% of photographers and therefore grade on a higher curve. Regardless, it seems like your comments are over the top when it comes to the actual difference among systems. I’ve somehow turned into an evangelist of reasonableness and moderation in regard to real world, practical differences in photographic gear because I find the conversation gratingly hyperbolic untethered to reality.
p.6 #6 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
tzhang4284 wrote:
You also need to factor in the frictional cost and time of switching lenses etc...nikon prices many of its top tier lenses higher than Sony does - that's how they recoup the body cost. There's also a mismatch in available lenses for both systems - e.g. no 1.4 lenses for a lot of focal lengths.
For someone already in the Sony system, it really doesn't make sense financially even if the bodies are priced a bit higher for very little marginal gain if at all unless there's an emotional connection to Nikon or you want access to Nikon's super telephoto lenses which I think is the one good reason to switch....Show more →
So as someone with a lot of E-mount lenses, the above is why I'm happy about the Z8. I'm hoping that it'll put more pressure on Sony to fill gaps in their product lines (e.g. Pre-shot capabilities). May be a false hope but I'll take what I can get : )
p.6 #7 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
Not sure how you’re calculating. In USD the Sony A1 with grip and 2nd battery is 26% more than the Z9 at (6500 + 350 + 79) / 5500 = 1.2598. The grip is added to the A1 to match the Z9 functionality. Or 6500/4000 = 1.62 for the A1 vs. Z8.
I have not penalized the A1 for the increased cost per gigabyte of memory of Type A CFexpress.
You forgot to add the cost of an A1 body to the Z9 kit in order to get the same AF functionality...
Here in Canada, a new A1 is $8000 and a Z9 is $7000. If you feel you need one, you can often get a grip for free with Sony's frequent promotions, and most dealers will include a free battery as well. On the other hand, a spare battery for the Z9 costs almost as much as the Sony grip retails for...
p.6 #8 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
osv2 wrote:
he said a9, not a1.
there is no substitute for 30fps raw; certainly not with the heavily compressed z9 jpegs, using a weak stepper motor lens.
nikon owners should be asking, why buy a z9 when z8 is the same camera, for $1500 less?
… I only shoot 10fps 100% of the time on my A9. The stuff that is useful to me is the zero blackout and 1/16000 shutter in aperture priority. The ad tracking is impt too but I think the z8 is as good as the a9 right.
p.6 #9 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
arbitrage wrote:
I'd say in some ways Z8 is better and some ways A9II still is better.
Z8 has more subject detect options including birds. A9II just cats/dogs and humans.
A9II I think still has an ease of use advantage with the Wide and Zone AF modes (non-tracking) being able to acquire subjects easier at distance, over complicated backgrounds and moving onto complicated backgrounds.
I think when the Z8 has acquired and is tracking your intended subject properly its hit rate is as good and probably better than A9II. It is getting to the point of acquiring and tracking that is more difficult compared to A9II.
Z8 still requires clunky handoff AF methods and it is no good at all at distant subjects or subjects over more complicated backgrounds.
That said, if Nikon lenses are what you want, I wouldn't not go Nikon because of Z8 AF. Z8 AF is still very good and can get you any shot you are after, just not as easily as A9II for fast action.
**all my "Z8" opinions are based on my ownership of Z9**
**it has been 2 years since I shot the A9II so my memory may not be the best and I've never had A9II directly beside Z9**...Show more →
I watched a video saying Nikon bragged that z8 their face detection can detect the smallest face for all camera out currently. It is like 3% of the frame… so it’s like better than a9. But seriously it’s pointless as I don’t need to af on a face 3% of the frame….
Stuff that is impt to me is just tracking and accuracy, accuracy especially like how fast the body and lens can move.
May 11, 2023 at 04:39 PM
osv2 Offline • • • • [X]
p.6 #10 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
groob wrote:
Indeed, I have to say, the only photos I’ve seen in the entire A1 thread that would be difficult to obtain with a D850 and my 20 year old 500mm f/4 (WITH STEPPER MOTORS, my god, the horror!)
that "20 year old 500mm f/4" was a swm lens, it did not use a stepper motor.
your comments are so ignorant that it's downright hilarious, lol
May 11, 2023 at 06:32 PM
osv2 Offline • • • • [X]
p.6 #11 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
wind30 wrote:
… I only shoot 10fps 100% of the time on my A9. The stuff that is useful to me is the zero blackout and 1/16000 shutter in aperture priority. The ad tracking is impt too but I think the z8 is as good as the a9 right.
i'd say yes that's true, once you are locked on they both track well, because tracking is largely a function of sensor readout speed... in theory the z8 would have an advantage there, it has a1-level readout speed:
z8: 1/270th
a9: 1/160th
the problem is that nikon apparently doesn't have anything comparable to sony real-time tracking for subject acquisition, which a game-changer for sports and even event shooting in general.
for example, here you can see hudson henry with z9 recommended action settings, talking about having to use two af buttons to shoot an action sequence, 12:15 in, he says "hand off" from a wide-area af button to a second af button, to enable tracking across the entire frame.
p.6 #12 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
osv2 wrote:
that "20 year old 500mm f/4" was a swm lens, it did not use a stepper motor.
your comments are so ignorant that it's downright hilarious, lol
What’s hilarious (and should be embarrassing) is your level of fanboyism. We get it. You like Sony, and you’re big on reading the manual. But there is no one on this forum who sheds less light and more heat. Your “contributions” belong in internet debates among prepubescent boys debating Xbox v. PlayStations.
Words do not exist to describe how little I care whether a telephoto uses a SWM, a stepper motor, a VCM, or a horse drawn carriage. You can’t point to a single example of a photo that a telephoto with a stepper motor is incapable of capturing. Geoff literally just posted dozens of photos of swallows in flight using the 400mm f/4.5. There isn’t a more challenging subject. And yet, despite ALL evidence to the contrary, you have ranted for years about stepper motors—and continue to do so—when it’s incandescently clear you’re wrong! All you do is post opinion as if it’s fact (for the love of God, please look up the word epistemology), regurgitate innocuous specs from Sony manuals as if they have anything more than a negligible effect on real world output, and then blather on with hyperbolic comments about the differences in systems.
p.6 #13 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
molson wrote:
More expensive than what? As of today, an A1 is 48% more expensive than a not-yet-available Z8, and only 14% more expensive than a Z9.
I can't, because I didn't keep any of the photos where the Z9 lost focus on the subject and jumped to the background...
If you're a dedicated Nikon shooter, the Z9 (and probably the Z8) are the best you are going to get, so why not be happy with them, instead of all this whinging and hand-wringing trying to convince yourselves the Sony and Canon cameras are suddenly so bad?
I’m thrilled with Nikon’s products. You realize this entire thread is nothing but Sony people reassuring themselves with cliched groupthink about the dramatic differences among systems that literally no one else believes exists and all objective evidence undermines? Might want to take a look in the mirror when it comes to the whinging.
p.6 #14 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
psp2000 wrote:
Is Z8 autofocus up to par with A9II?
It seems like you should frame your question by what you are shooting. This forum (a few select members) constantly gauges af performance on subjects that aren’t common ie. swallows and “small birds flying erratically at distance”. For those niche subjects it doesn’t sound like Z8 is up to par. For other subjects it probably is up to par and may exceed the competition in certain scenarios and subjects. It’s reasonable to assume the Z8 may also be behind in other scenarios and subjects. But with how capable all these high end cameras are, you should be able to capture everything. These af discussions are too simplistic and hyperbolic (“the af sucks” … really dumb).
p.6 #15 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
berimbolo wrote:
Ignoring extreme megapixel requirements and other edge cases, every individual photo could probably be taken with any camera from the big 3 that was released in the last 5-10 years. I'm a mediocre photographer and was able to get a tree swallow in flight with an a6400 last year. It was maybe 1 out of 200 shots that was in focus, but it happened.
what really matters is the ease of use, keeper rate and subject matter being shot. A lot of that is personal preference and dependant on what you're shooting. Not everyone cares a lot about getting swallows/terns in flight, for example. Im glad the Z8 and Z9 are impressive cameras. Im particularly glad that the Z8 is relatively inexpensive for what it is. I don't understand the need for people to get into heated arguments about which multibillion dollar company they want to give their money to. ...Show more →
Agreed, but I’m still waiting on someone to identify a subject that is markedly more difficult for a Z9 to capture than an A1 or an R3. I see pages and pages of people opining that “nothing comes close to an A1,” but all evidence in the record is to the contrary.
p.6 #16 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
Buckeye2604 wrote:
It seems like you should frame your question by what you are shooting. This forum (a few select members) constantly gauges af performance on subjects that aren’t common ie. swallows and “small birds flying erratically at distance”. For those niche subjects it doesn’t sound like Z8 is up to par. For other subjects it probably is up to par and may exceed the competition in certain scenarios and subjects. It’s reasonable to assume the Z8 may also be behind in other scenarios and subjects. But with how capable all these high end cameras are, you should be able to capture everything. These af discussions are too simplistic and hyperbolic (“the af sucks” … really dumb). ...Show more →
I agree. If we need to go to extreme edge cases to make points…that in itself says a lot about the AF of the latest cameras ( Z8 and A7R5 ).
p.6 #17 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
You forgot to add the cost of an A1 body to the Z9 kit in order to get the same AF functionality...
Here in Canada, a new A1 is $8000 and a Z9 is $7000. If you feel you need one, you can often get a grip for free with Sony's frequent promotions, and most dealers will include a free battery as well. On the other hand, a spare battery for the Z9 costs almost as much as the Sony grip retails for...
At the cost you’re paying in Canada you should get some of those freebies but here in the US when I compare products pricing using a major supplier’s retail, published, pricing. Special individual deals and perks don’t help the general user community unless available to all.
The Nikon battery is about $180 vs $360 for the Sony VG-C4EM. That’s not equal to me. Also Sony has still failed to fix and support the A7RV properly with a battery grip since the MIS engineered the fit. I know. Own two grips and both the A1 an A7RV. I’m a Sony fan since 2012 but Sony has plenty of room for improvement.
p.6 #18 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
You forgot to add the cost of an A1 body to the Z9 kit in order to get the same AF functionality...
Here in Canada, a new A1 is $8000 and a Z9 is $7000. If you feel you need one, you can often get a grip for free with Sony's frequent promotions, and most dealers will include a free battery as well. On the other hand, a spare battery for the Z9 costs almost as much as the Sony grip retails for...
At the cost you’re paying in Canada you should get some of those freebies but here in the US when I compare products pricing using a major supplier’s retail, published, pricing. Special individual deals and perks don’t help the general user community unless available to all.
The Nikon battery is about $149 rvs $349 for the Sony VG-C4EM. Both of these have dropped in the last year. Nikon’s battery is $70 cheaper but the Sony grip is only been reduced by ~ $25. That’s not equal to me. Also Sony has still failed to fix and support the A7RV properly with a battery grip since the MIS engineered the fit. I know. Own two grips and both the A1 an A7RV. I’m a Sony fan since 2012 but Sony has plenty of room for improvement.
p.6 #19 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
When Nikon gets a 200-600 I’ll be interested. But that day is not here yet. That is Sonys advantage. Better lens eco system. The 200-600 as cheap and good as it is is a game changer. Everyone else is playing second fiddle especially for me. The 200-600 is literally glued to my a1 and rv.
May 11, 2023 at 08:32 PM
osv2 Offline • • • • [X]
p.6 #20 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
groob wrote:
What’s hilarious (and should be embarrassing) is your level of fanboyism.
no, as you've repeatedly proven you can't tell us what's best because you don't have any technical understanding of how cameras work, and btw here is a newsflash for you: all four of the old 500/4 af lenses used swm.
you telling us that it doesn't matter is really dumb, because nikon specifically states that nikon linear voice coil af motors are the best af motor technology... no, you aren't smarter than nikon, lol, you don't even know what focus motors nikon uses!
