p.7 #1 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
C_n_red_again wrote:
When Nikon gets a 200-600 I’ll be interested. But that day is not here yet. That is Sonys advantage. Better lens eco system. The 200-600 as cheap and good as it is is a game changer. Everyone else is playing second fiddle especially for me. The 200-600 is literally glued to my a1 and rv.
I love my Sony 200-600 when I put it on a gimbal and tripod but found the Nikon Z 400/4.5 at 1260 grams or F mount 500/5.6 PF at 1460 grams was better for hand carry in the field. And both with TC x1.4 work great so I can reach out to 700mm.
p.7 #2 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
At the cost you’re paying in Canada you should get some of those freebies but here in the US when I compare products pricing using a major supplier’s retail, published, pricing. Special individual deals and perks don’t help the general user community unless available to all.
The Nikon battery is about $149 rvs $349 for the Sony VG-C4EM. Both of these have dropped in the last year. Nikon’s battery is $70 cheaper but the Sony grip is only been reduced by ~ $25. That’s not equal to me. Also Sony has still failed to fix and support the A7RV properly with a battery grip since the MIS engineered the fit. I know. Own two grips and both the A1 an A7RV. I’m a Sony fan since 2012 but Sony has plenty of room for improvement....Show more →
The Nikon battery with the end cap is $347 here, but it's irrelevant since the grip does not provide any additional functionality on the A1.
Something that does provide additional functionality is an L-bracket; RRS charges $215 for an A1 bracket, but their Z9 monstrosity goes for $270 - if you can find one.
May 11, 2023 at 09:06 PM
osv2 Offline • • • • [X]
p.7 #3 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
C_n_red_again wrote:
When Nikon gets a 200-600 I’ll be interested. But that day is not here yet. That is Sonys advantage. Better lens eco system. The 200-600 as cheap and good as it is is a game changer. Everyone else is playing second fiddle especially for me. The 200-600 is literally glued to my a1 and rv.
x2 on all that, the 200-600 has been my go-to lens ever since i got it.
nikon is sucking wind, they once again failed to deliver the 200-600 that's been in their roadmap for three years, and even worse, it took 'em 1.5 years to put a z9 in the smaller z8 form factor, with no technical improvements to the camera.
the nikon sheeple are of course cheering on that abject lack of innovation, it's a pathetic display of brand fanaticism.
p.7 #4 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
200 grams heavier and larger body than A1. Only 20 fps raw. No 12-24. No third party options. Their lenses are heavier overall. Their focus is all wrong for me. Small and light bodies. Small and light lenses. Open mount. That's what I want. And I need a 12-24.
p.7 #5 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
osv2 wrote:
no, as you've repeatedly proven you can't tell us what's best because you don't have any technical understanding of how cameras work, and btw here is a newsflash for you: all four of the old 500/4 af lenses used swm.
you telling us that it doesn't matter is really dumb, because nikon specifically states that nikon linear voice coil af motors are the best af motor technology... no, you aren't smarter than nikon, lol, you don't even know what focus motors nikon uses!
Yes, as everyone knows, one cannot work a camera without being steeped in knowledge about AF motors. Your usual airtight logic at work. If Sony, Nikon, etc. believe that VCMs are better, that sounds great to me. But, again, you’ve missed the entire point. Please show us the image that cannot be obtained with a telephoto that has a stepper motor. You’ve been talking about it incessantly for years. Should be easy to dig one up.
p.7 #6 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
Not sure how you’re calculating. In USD the Sony A1 with grip and 2nd battery is 26% more than the Z9 at (6500 + 350 + 79) / 5500 = 1.2598. The grip is added to the A1 to match the Z9 functionality. Or 6500/4000 = 1.62 for the A1 vs. Z8.
I have not penalized the A1 for the increased cost per gigabyte of memory of Type A CFexpress.
Zero reason to add a grip. Lightweight and small size is a HUGE deal and the whole point. Can go 3k pictures on one battery.
p.7 #7 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
I’ve owned every Sony A7Rx, and A7x (including the A7C) both A9’s and the A1 and even three A6xxx bodies so I’ve given Sony a lot of money but I’m a realist and there is room for improvement. It’s been my camera of choice since 2012. The A7RV was so well received it’s already dropped ~ $600in six months. It’s a great camera for landscape, architecture, some portrait work but full resolution frames per second prevent it from being used for a lot of wildlife I think. Forget sports. That doesn’t mean it’s overpriced since a GFX100S is quite a bit more and aimed at the same market? That said, forget about the Z9, I think the Z8 will set the bar for what a new A9III should cost and offer.
p.7 #8 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
osv2
your comments are so ignorant that it's downright hilarious, lol
Groob is a good guy. He is generally polite and positive. He loves discussing gear. He is a Nikon shooter, and a good member of the FM community. He should be treated well, and with respect. Especially so as a visitor to the Sony boards.
p.7 #9 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
1bwana1 wrote:
Groob is a good guy. He is generally polite and positive. He loves discussing gear. He is a Nikon shooter, and a good member of the FM community. He should be treated well, and with respect. Especially so as a visitor to the Sony boards.
Ha. I appreciate that, although I’ll admit that I’ve not been the most gracious guest. The illogic and hyperbole finally made me snap.
p.7 #10 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
I love Sony and have come to realize that 99.99% of the time (honestly, it's actually 100% when I realistically consider my needs) that I want the competitor's hot new product, it's just the GAS talking.
But if there is one thing I wish Sony had implemented at some point, it would be a top-panel LCD. That's truly the one I feel I'm missing. It's definitely not enough to warrant a brand change, but I would really really like it on my next Sony.
p.7 #11 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
C_n_red_again wrote:
When Nikon gets a 200-600 I’ll be interested. But that day is not here yet. That is Sonys advantage. Better lens eco system. The 200-600 as cheap and good as it is is a game changer. Everyone else is playing second fiddle especially for me. The 200-600 is literally glued to my a1 and rv.
The Nikon 200(180)-600 is out in the field being tested already. I beleive we will see it announced as soon as July. Maybe Nikon will see a high performance mirrorless D500 at about the same time. It is also in the field from what I have heard.
It is nice to see parity finally developing for our fellow members who are fans of Nikon. We Sony shooters have enjoyed a good number of years with a big technology advantage. In my opinion that continues on many levels. It is just not as big as it was.
p.7 #15 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
swldstn wrote:
I’ve owned every Sony A7Rx, and A7x (including the A7C) both A9’s and the A1 and even three A6xxx bodies so I’ve given Sony a lot of money but I’m a realist and there is room for improvement. It’s been my camera of choice since 2012. The A7RV was so well received it’s already dropped ~ $600in six months. It’s a great camera for landscape, architecture, some portrait work but full resolution frames per second prevent it from being used for a lot of wildlife I think. Forget sports. That doesn’t mean it’s overpriced since a GFX100S is quite a bit more and aimed at the same market? That said, forget about the Z9, I think the Z8 will set the bar for what a new A9III should cost and offer. ...Show more →
The A7RV was so well received it’s already dropped ~ $600in six months. Huh? The A7RV price hasn't dropped 5 cents yet what are you talking about.
but full resolution frames per second prevent it from being used for a lot of wildlife I think.
I sure don't know what kind of wildlife you're shooting, but I'm in Idaho a state loaded with wildlife and I'm able to shoot pretty much anything that breaths without issue, including birds. The focus system on the A7RV remains top of the line and unless your a high frame shootaholic (which I'm NOT) it hits whatever I aim at. Sheesh..........
p.7 #16 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
groob wrote:
Now, wait a second, is it “no good at all,” or is it slightly worse than an A1? And is it “no good at all” with all subjects or only swallows? Or is it slightly worse (in your opinion) with swallows or all subjects? These kinds of all-encompassing comments make the Z9/8 sound worse than a D850, and give the impression that moving to mirrorless on the Nikon side is a waste of time. Based your recent comments in the Z9 thread, however, I have to assume this is a pretty big overstatement? Indeed, I have to say, the only photos I’ve seen in the entire A1 thread that would be difficult to obtain with a D850 and my 20 year old 500mm f/4 (WITH STEPPER MOTORS, my god, the horror!) are swallows. There’s not much else that causes an issue: flying ducks, puffins, terns, owls, stilts, etc.
I think you’re pickier, more demanding, and spend more time in the field than 99% of photographers and therefore grade on a higher curve. Regardless, it seems like your comments are over the top when it comes to the actual difference among systems. I’ve somehow turned into an evangelist of reasonableness and moderation in regard to real world, practical differences in photographic gear because I find the conversation gratingly hyperbolic untethered to reality. ...Show more →
Where is the "no good at all" quote coming from?
You quoted a post talking about the A9II vs the Z8 (Z9)...nothing about the A1 in that post.
Yes I'm pickier than 99% of other people on here but I make myself clear in most of my posts (maybe not all of them) about what subjects or situations I'm talking about.
In the post you quoted, I said the Z8 could capture anything you want it to. Exactly what you are saying...even about the D850. And I'd agree. I could get all the swallows I wanted and every other BIF I tried (including small passerines like finches) with my D850.....when I put in the effort.
I guess I just like to take the easy route these days. And in my hands the easy route to getting the shots I want, getting more keepers to choose from in a given session and most importantly, giving me the highest chance of getting that 1 in a million split second moment I'll never see again is the Sony A1.
I've never once said a Z8 or a Z9 or an R5 or a D850 or a D500 or an A7RV can't get me a type of shot I'm after. I've got challenging swallows etc with all those cameras.
I made a recent post on BCG showing a shot from each of those cameras to prove it isn't the gear...check it out:
p.7 #17 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
1bwana1 wrote:
Groob is a good guy. He is generally polite and positive. He loves discussing gear.
a gear discussion with someone who doesn't even know what focus motors he's used? waste of time.
his entire vocabulary is limited to: "show me the photo that an A1 could capture but a Z9 couldn’t"; that's not a gear discussion, especially in a z8 thread.
as i pointed out earlier, he made false claims about what arbitrage posted: "he said a9, not a1"
those things are not good faith discussion.
1bwana1 wrote:
He is a Nikon shooter, and a good member of the FM community. He should be treated well, and with respect.
he's trolling, no doubt because of his inferiority complex over owning nikon, lol
p.7 #18 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
I think it looks like a great camera if you need those specs. I don't think Nikon's in a position to put any kind of pressure on Sony or Canon right now. What they're doing with their product and pricing strategy would need to work in drawing in significant numbers of new users before they get that kind of leverage. Hopefully, those efforts will pay off for them.
I do think they've got something of an uphill battle for themselves with the shutterless cameras. I know that the stacked sensor is fast enough that, with some situational care, I could make it work without issue. I know that, but I'd still rather have one for the times when it's easier to use and I don't have to worry about the noise.
p.7 #19 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
groob wrote:
Yes, as everyone knows, one cannot work a camera without being steeped in knowledge about AF motors. Your usual airtight logic at work. If Sony, Nikon, etc. believe that VCMs are better, that sounds great to me. But, again, you’ve missed the entire point. Please show us the image that cannot be obtained with a telephoto that has a stepper motor. You’ve been talking about it incessantly for years. Should be easy to dig one up.
I work in industrial automation and deal with linear actuators on a daily basis. It's not wrong to say that VCMs are going to be the dominant tech going forward, but there is absolutely nothing revolutionary about VCMs in 2023, even as micromotors. No, Sony or whoever didn't "invent" them, so the sony fanboys need to calm down a bit We have had them for decades in every industry, and on the consumer side famously in hard-disk heads (as dual-actuator systems with PZT). In fact they have historically been limited in use for low-torque applications (which is why you might see quad or dual motors employed for moving heavy focusing groups). Today's advances are about lower power use and a higher force generation capacity using a micromotor that occupies a small space. To put things in perspective For e.g. Tamron in their marketing literature about their linear motors boats a positional accuracy of 0.005mm and hard-disks have been doing a three-sigma of roughly 5nm for decades. 5nm is 0.000005mm.
p.7 #20 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
I certainly wish the R5 had dropped 600 euros here in Sweden (just checked in Germany and same).
What is most surprising to me is that the Z8 is 300 euros more expensive than the R5 here in Sweden and same price in Germany.
My hope is that it pokes Sony to decrease the prices a bit faster. Usually 1 year after launch during October/November period. Would be nice to have new gear for the summer.
Price dcisive wrote: The A7RV was so well received it’s already dropped ~ $600in six months. Huh? The A7RV price hasn't dropped 5 cents yet what are you talking about.
but full resolution frames per second prevent it from being used for a lot of wildlife I think.
I sure don't know what kind of wildlife you're shooting, but I'm in Idaho a state loaded with wildlife and I'm able to shoot pretty much anything that breaths without issue, including birds. The focus system on the A7RV remains top of the line and unless your a high frame shootaholic (which I'm NOT) it hits whatever I aim at. Sheesh.............Show more →
We have had them for decades in every industry, and on the consumer side famously in hard-disk heads (as dual-actuator systems with PZT). In fact they have historically been limited in use for low-torque applications (which is why you might see quad or dual motors employed for moving heavy focusing groups). Today's advances are about lower power use and a higher force generation capacity using a micromotor that occupies a small space. To put things in perspective For e.g. Tamron in their marketing literature about their linear motors boats a positional accuracy of 0.005mm and hard-disks have been doing a three-sigma of roughly 5nm for decades. 5nm is 0.000005mm.