p.40 #1 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
&ab_channel=TheSlantedLens
Good review comparing the Z8 to the a7R5. These camera reviews are honestly somewhat limiting because they don't speak to lens availability and quality, don't cover a wide variety of shooting scenarios (portrait, sport, wildlife, architecture, travel, etc)
p.40 #3 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
saaketham wrote:
In that video ^^^ at minute 2:15, the images will tell you what you need to know ... z8 focus issues with portraits
Did I imagine things when the youtuber said ONE image in the sequence may have been slightly off with the Z8 and it performed similarly? By the end of the video he sounded like a A7R5 owner who wanted a Z8 haha.
There’s no focus issues.
Sony 50 1.2 is slightly sharper wide open, but from those images also has busier bokeh and less than ideal color (imo).
p.40 #4 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
patotts wrote:
&ab_channel=TheSlantedLens
Good review comparing the Z8 to the a7R5. These camera reviews are honestly somewhat limiting because they don't speak to lens availability and quality, don't cover a wide variety of shooting scenarios (portrait, sport, wildlife, architecture, travel, etc)
That Nikon 50mm f/1.2 lens is GIGANTIC. That's not 'more robust' as claimed in the video. The greater mass means that if the camera falls, there's more kinetic energy to absorb & likely more damage. The Sony 50mm f/1.2 is big but much smaller than the Nikon lens and the image quality from what I can see in the video is at least as good.
p.40 #5 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
Buckeye2604 wrote:
Did I imagine things when the youtuber said ONE image in the sequence may have been slightly off with the Z8 and it performed similarly? By the end of the video he sounded like a A7R5 owner who wanted a Z8 haha.
There’s no focus issues.
Sony 50 1.2 is slightly sharper wide open, but from those images also has busier bokeh and less than ideal color (imo).
That looks like a misfocus or maybe hand shake otherwise the nikon 50mm f1.2 is really really soft. You can get better center results from much cheaper lenses so something doesn't add up here.
p.40 #6 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
I mean, in absolute terms, I expect the Sony a7R5 sensor + the ridiculously sharp 50GM to produce sharper results when you pixel-peep. I also think the AI-driven AF tracking is meaningfully better than the Z8 at certain tasks, like anticipating where the face/eye will be via the AI-module. Having said that, I am confident that with practice and familiarity with the Nikon AF system, it can and will produce beautiful files that won't disappoint either the photographer or the audience.
I am jealous of that Nikon Z 24-120/4 lens, though. I think Sony needs to update the 24-105/4 to something better at this point.
p.40 #7 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
It’s been said before here, but it really is true that we live in an amazing era of camera tech and any of these top models will produce in the hands of a skilled photographer. I can’t emphasize enough how it comes down to personal preferences. I shot the Z9 for a year and enjoyed my time with it, then tried out an A7RV and fell in love, it is the perfect camera + lens system for what and how I shoot. But others will have the opposite experience. There is no substitute for using a camera extensively if possible, or at least renting temporarily, and finding the brand/model that best fits you as an individual. I so love my A7RV that I just bought a 2nd, something I have not done since my newspaper photography days in the 90’s where it was a requirement.
p.40 #8 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
The best news is that we will likely never reach agreement on which is a better camera system. That is a good indicator that we all have systems we love which suit our needs and preferences. Could there be a better World than that?
p.40 #10 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
The review shown above is seriously flawed if the intention is to compare camera performance. They used different lenses, thereby introducing a confounding variable - the lenses are very different indeed, in ways that will affect their measures.
About the Nikon Nikkor Z 50mm f/1.2 S, to give it its full title: this one is problematic not just for the weight of 1090 grams, large bulk of 90 x 150mm, filter requirement of 82mm and zoom-tier complexity of 17 elements in 15 groups. It is very weak wide open, which is unfortunately the raison d'etre of very fast 50mm lenses. No one buys a 50/1.2 to shoot landscapes at f8, not in 2023.
Being rather diplomatic, Lenstip described it thus:
'The Nikkor doesn't fare so well - it's enough you compare its graph to that of the Sony FE 50 mm f/1.2 GM, tested by us not so long ago. The Sony lens near f/4.0 was able to get to 80 lpmm but by f/2.8 it was able to have resolution at a level of about 78 lpmm; at the maximum .. aperture it was almost 70 lpmm so over 20 lpmm more than in the case of the Nikkor.'
The image resolution graph is much worse than stated above. Perhaps they got a bad copy but after seeing corroborative evidence, maybe not.
Its images look like what we saw in the very fast lenses back in the 1990s, in terms of resolution and clarity. It pains me to say so, but this is one of the worst results I've seen in recent times. BTW, Sony's latest GM, the GM 50/1.4 is much better at all equal apertures than their GM 50/1.2. Now, that one IS extremely sharp.
As Dustin Abbott opines:
'This is an optical powerhouse in terms of sharpness'; 'the new F1.4 GM lens is the winner in resolution across the frame with the exception of the far corners' (relative to the GM 50/1.2); 'this is an incredibly sharp lens. Very impressive. If I focus in the corner and then compare the center focus and corner focus I find that the corner is good, but the center and midframe are exceptional.'
The Lenstip team agrees:
'I admit it's shocking how the 1.4/50 model outperformed its faster 1.2/50 brother which maximum MTF values barely reached close to 80 lpmm.' '..we deal here with an outstanding lens, one of the sharpest we have ever tested.'
It may just be the strongest resolving fast 50mm lens, bar none.
p.40 #11 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
philip_pj wrote:
The review shown above is seriously flawed if the intention is to compare camera performance. They used different lenses, thereby introducing a confounding variable - the lenses are very different indeed, in ways that will affect their measures.
About the Nikon Nikkor Z 50mm f/1.2 S, to give it its full title: this one is problematic not just for the weight of 1090 grams, large bulk of 90 x 150mm, filter requirement of 82mm and zoom-tier complexity of 17 elements in 15 groups. It is very weak wide open, which is unfortunately the raison d'etre of very fast 50mm lenses. No one buys a 50/1.2 to shoot landscapes at f8, not in 2023.
Being rather diplomatic, Lenstip described it thus:
'The Nikkor doesn't fare so well - it's enough you compare its graph to that of the Sony FE 50 mm f/1.2 GM, tested by us not so long ago. The Sony lens near f/4.0 was able to get to 80 lpmm but by f/2.8 it was able to have resolution at a level of about 78 lpmm; at the maximum .. aperture it was almost 70 lpmm so over 20 lpmm more than in the case of the Nikkor.'
The image resolution graph is much worse than stated above. Perhaps they got a bad copy but after seeing corroborative evidence, maybe not.
Its images look like what we saw in the very fast lenses back in the 1990s, in terms of resolution and clarity. It pains me to say so, but this is one of the worst results I've seen in recent times. BTW, Sony's latest GM, the GM 50/1.4 is much better at all equal apertures than their GM 50/1.2. Now, that one IS extremely sharp.
As Dustin Abbott opines:
'This is an optical powerhouse in terms of sharpness'; 'the new F1.4 GM lens is the winner in resolution across the frame with the exception of the far corners' (relative to the GM 50/1.2); 'this is an incredibly sharp lens. Very impressive. If I focus in the corner and then compare the center focus and corner focus I find that the corner is good, but the center and midframe are exceptional.'
The Lenstip team agrees:
'I admit it's shocking how the 1.4/50 model outperformed its faster 1.2/50 brother which maximum MTF values barely reached close to 80 lpmm.' '..we deal here with an outstanding lens, one of the sharpest we have ever tested.'
It may just be the strongest resolving fast 50mm lens, bar none. ...Show more →
People who measurbate over reviews like this instead of images taken with any given lens need to get out more
Plenty of samples from the Nikon 50 1.2 show it to be a fine lens. If you're after super critical sharpness, get a 61mp Sony and their version. Many people taking portraits don't want the "microscope into every pore" look. It's the same reason that the 135GM turned out to be a divisive lens...being sharp on a chart doesn't always lead to interesting lens character or pleasing rendering for human subjects.
They Sony is smaller, lighter, and a bit sharper. Both will serve any pro or hobbyist well.
p.40 #12 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
In 2023 I'm honestly at the point where if you can't get the shot, it's not the camera it's you. There's basically something capable being released by everybody to the point where it's not worth the brand centric pissing contests.
p.40 #13 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
JadedWriter wrote:
In 2023 I'm honestly at the point where if you can't get the shot, it's not the camera it's you. There's basically something capable being released by everybody to the point where it's not worth the brand centric pissing contests.
I'm disappointed that in 2023 some camera makers have forgotten the lesson of the 1970s when the C & N cameras had become so bloated and massive that Olympus found an opportunity to make a small, lightweight fully-featured and fully-capable system in the OM-1 and forced the other makers to lose the fat.
Z9+ 50mm f/1.2 2430 g
a1+50mm f/1.2 1515 g
Both very capable cameras. I know which I'd rather carry all day.
p.40 #14 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
I have carried more or less both for event work and street photography since the A1 and RIV aren't that different in size and guess which one I kept. Not everybody needs to shoot Sony and when I was I barely enjoyed it, which became obvious since if you actually dive into my Flickr and see when I was using what my Sony output dropped sharply after I got the Z6II and basically stopped when I got the Z9. telyt wrote:
I'm disappointed that in 2023 some camera makers have forgotten the lesson of the 1970s when the C & N cameras had become so bloated and massive that Olympus found an opportunity to make a small, lightweight fully-featured and fully-capable system in the OM-1 and forced the other makers to lose the fat.
Z9+ 50mm f/1.2 2430 g
a1+50mm f/1.2 1515 g
Both very capable cameras. I know which I'd rather carry all day.
p.40 #15 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
JadedWriter wrote:
I have carried more or less both for event work and street photography since the A1 and RIV aren't that different in size and guess which one I kept. Not everybody needs to shoot Sony and when I was I barely enjoyed it, which became obvious since if you actually dive into my Flickr and see when I was using what my Sony output dropped sharply after I got the Z6II and basically stopped when I got the Z9.
p.40 #17 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
telyt wrote:
YMMV. Enjoy the bloat.
, doubling down on a stupid cherry picking post like that? Bold move, Cotton. You don't need a Z9 or an A1 to shoot a 50/1.2 and most people who want that type of lens will have something like an A74 or Z6ii.
p.40 #18 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
RoamingScott wrote: , doubling down on a stupid cherry picking post like that? Bold move, Cotton. You don't need a Z9 or an A1 to shoot a 50/1.2 and most people who want that type of lens will have something like an A74 or Z6ii.
… unless one wishes to shoot silently and wants a stacked censor to avoid banding from LED lights? Maybe it’s just me, but I’ve always liked fast lenses for more lighting flexibility than simply bokeh obsessions. Though, granted that was more for film than digital.
p.40 #19 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
Buckeye2604 wrote:
Did I imagine things when the youtuber said ONE image in the sequence may have been slightly off with the Z8 and it performed similarly? By the end of the video he sounded like a A7R5 owner who wanted a Z8 haha.
There’s no focus issues.
Sony 50 1.2 is slightly sharper wide open, but from those images also has busier bokeh and less than ideal color (imo).
- Sony image is not 'slightly sharper', it is significantly sharper, to the extent that I think something must have gone wrong with the Nikon image. Most likely the focus on the eye is missed due to some reason. Or perhaps, the lens is the problem which is disappointing for a lens of that size.
- The color and tonal rendering is better in the Sony image. I much prefer the skin rendering in the Sony image. In the Nikon image, there are pale areas on the skin and shirt. The subject in the Sony image feels more 3-dimentional while in the Nikon image it appears more flat. It could be due to some slight over exposure though. It needed to be tested multiple times to verify.
- The bokeh difference is very subtle and could almost be due to wind (moving leaves results in a different bokeh). This has to be verified with many more images to be able to come to a sound conclusion. In any case, if I am worried about bokeh, I shoot at f2.8 and selectively blur the areas in the image that I want. This way, I would get a bokeh 10 times more pleasing / smoother than any of these two lenses can produce. The post processing task can be achieved in seconds in modern software such as Photoshop/Lightroom where subject selection has been made very easy and there are numerous blur effects to one's preference.
If one has to base his evaluation on what is presented in the video, Sony camera/lens combo is superior. However, it does not make sense to rely on one image to compare the image quality between these alternatives. Tens of images must be compared in order to come to a sound conclusion. Unfortunately, these Youtube reviewers have neither adequate expertise nor the patience for that. They just want to publish a video in the shortest amount of time possible for monetary gains.
