p.41 #2 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
raminolta wrote:
- Sony image is not 'slightly sharper', it is significantly sharper, to the extent that I think something must have gone wrong with the Nikon image. Most likely the focus on the eye is missed due to some reason. Or perhaps, the lens is the problem which is disappointing for a lens of that size.
- The color and tonal rendering is better in the Sony image. I much prefer the skin rendering in the Sony image. In the Nikon image, there are pale areas on the skin and shirt. The subject in the Sony image feels more 3-dimentional while in the Nikon image it feels more flat. It could be due to some slight over exposure though. It needed to be tested multiple times to verify.
- The bokeh difference is very subtle and almost could be due to wind (moving leaves results in a different bokeh). This has to be verified with many more images to be able to come to a sound conclusion. In any case, if I am worried about bokeh, I shoot at f2.8 and selectively blur the areas in the image that I want. This way, I would get a bokeh 10 times more pleasing / smoother than any of these two lenses can produce. The post processing task can be achieved in seconds in modern software such as Photoshop/Lightroom where subject selection has been made very easy and there are numerous blur effects to one's preference.
If one has to base his evaluation on what is presented in the video, Sony camera/lens combo is superior. However, it does not make sense to rely on one image to compare the image quality between these alternatives. Tens of images must be compared in order to come to a sound conclusion. Unfortunately, these Youtube reviewers neither have adequate expertise nor the patience for that. They just want to publish a video in the shortest amount of time possible for monetary gains.
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I’m 100% with you on your last paragraph. Although I was talking about multiple images throughout the video and not just one, you bring up an interesting point about bokeh. I’d be curious to see if you could use AI to sharpen the “softer/out of focus/whatever anyone wants to call it” image to appear similar. I consider a slight difference to be anything where you have to zoom in to 200% to differentiate.
Nov 03, 2023 at 07:08 AM
berimbolo Offline • • • [X]
p.41 #3 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
SAR reports that Sony may release a camera with a 44mp stacked sensor that can do ~60 fps (compressed raw). That would be absurd.
p.41 #6 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
It is highly unlikely I will purchase an A9III, but I am eager to see what it can do. That will set the floor for an A1II which I expect will be introduced by 2026.
I only care about two improvements.
1. RAW pre-capture at 30fps,
2. AF improvements.
p.41 #7 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
berimbolo wrote:
SAR reports that Sony may release a camera with a 44mp stacked sensor that can do ~60 fps (compressed raw). That would be absurd.
I don't see how Sony will make an a9iii for $4,500 with 44mp that will trump the $6,500 a1 in every way. 33-ish mp is much more likely.
We'll know soon enough.
Nov 03, 2023 at 11:40 AM
berimbolo Offline • • • [X]
p.41 #8 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
patotts wrote:
I don't see how Sony will make an a9iii for $4,500 with 44mp that will trump the $6,500 a1 in every way. 33-ish mp is much more likely.
We'll know soon enough.
Agreed.
I will consider a 33mp A9iii. If it has superior FPS compared to the A1 + AI autofocus and pre-capture, it may be a better camera for my needs. A lower resolution sensor may also be more forgiving, which would let me choose a 400mm F2.8 + 2x TC without giving up too much on IQ.
p.41 #10 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
Buckeye2604 wrote:
I’m 100% with you on your last paragraph. Although I was talking about multiple images throughout the video and not just one, you bring up an interesting point about bokeh. I’d be curious to see if you could use AI to sharpen the “softer/out of focus/whatever anyone wants to call it” image to appear similar. I consider a slight difference to be anything where you have to zoom in to 200% to differentiate.
I haven't used the AI for any blurring effect yet. I am not sure it would do a better job than conventional tools. I am not against exploring the option though. However, the conventional tools just do a great job compared to wide aperture lens blur when one has so much more control over the blur effect (type of blur, amount of blur and where it is to be applied).
p.41 #12 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
arbitrage wrote:
That is still on the table. But hesitating when I think about the lack of a 3rd control wheel forcing me to change ISO on a lens control ring that has no consistency to its position on any given lens.
Having the control ring on the Nikon lenses set to anything but "off" can be a real headache - basically every time you pick up the lens the setting changes if you accidentally brush against the ring, and there's no detente or click or anything to let you know you've changed settings.
p.41 #13 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
molson wrote:
Having the control ring on the Nikon lenses set to anything but "off" can be a real headache - basically every time you pick up the lens the setting changes if you accidentally brush against the ring, and there's no detente or click or anything to let you know you've changed settings.
I agree. But I hated having to push a button and then scroll to change ISO so I forced myself to put ISO onto the ring of the 400/4.5. It worked okay because at least I could see if I'd accidentally bumped it due to exposure change in the EVF.
I wish Nikon would let you put ISO on the rear command dial and SS on the front dial. Then let me program the "ISO" button for aperture (press and scroll). If I could do that then I wouldn't use the control ring at all. I rarely change aperture from wide open so feel it is a waste to have it take up my rear control wheel.
Nov 04, 2023 at 10:09 AM
duncang Offline • • • [X]
p.41 #14 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
arbitrage wrote:
That is still on the table. But hesitating when I think about the lack of a 3rd control wheel forcing me to change ISO on a lens control ring that has no consistency to its position on any given lens. Also lack of back buttons and more limited options (compared to Sony) to customize the buttons that are there. Also the really poor WYSIWYG EVF which I found difficult to judge proper exposure. And I'm not convinced 4.10 has brought the Z9 to A1 AF levels just yet. Add to that I'd probably go Z8 to save on weight which doesn't even get that AF update till next year. And of course the cost of doing a full switch is prohibitive.
So I will wait and see what the A9III brings. SAR seems less and less convinced it is coming on Nov8/9. His video today is talking about maybe not till January again?? ...Show more →
p.41 #15 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
trainerKEN wrote:
I heard the α9 III will still be 24MP, but with global shutter, and 100fps in RAW (probably compressed RAW)
Global shutter is an interesting concept that is used quite freely. Universal shutter would be even better
I think A9III will just have a very fast sensor, realistically thinking as fast (or a little faster) per pixel as A1 sensor. That would be very fast with 33mpx resolution! Still I would be surprised if Sony drops mechanical shutter from A9III as it is a camera targetted to sports, event photography.
24mpx resolution is not enough.
Nov 06, 2023 at 02:33 AM
berimbolo Offline • • • [X]
p.41 #16 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
SAR is now reporting 24mp with global shutter. Not sure if global shutter really makes a major difference compared to the read out speed of stacked sensors.
p.41 #17 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
3rd generation A9, they got to up the resolution at least to 33mp I would think. Better high ISO noise would be nice, and Keep the lovely shutter sound of the A9II.
Aside from that, I think my A9II is plenty capable. I mean, a burst of 20 fps of a bride popping champagne is probably overkill for me anyway lol
p.41 #19 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
trainerKEN wrote:
I heard the α9 III will still be 24MP, but with global shutter, and 100fps in RAW (probably compressed RAW)
SAR now agrees with you. I'm giving you credit for the first leak if it is true.
Global shutter is not important to me. 24MP is too low for me in 2023. I guess it will be another year till I buy a new camera when the A1II comes out.....or I get bored and switch to Nikon.
p.41 #20 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
24 mp is enough for sports photographers shooting for media (web, magazines, tv, etc), and it gives Sony bragging rights, which I guess is important to some. It will look good along the sidelines of the Olympics.
I think many (most?) enthusiasts have now gotten used to the advantage of high MP to crop on far-away subjects and scenes. I will surely not spend $4,500 on a 24mp camera. I'm telling ya', that Z8 is looking better and better ;-)
