p.19 #1 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
zeitlos wrote:
What would interest me the most: Why is the Sony EVF of the 7R V worse than that of the Nikon Z8 even though the Sony viewfinder has a much higher resolution?
Is a higher resolution (let‘s say above 4 million pixels) only helpful when viewing the captured photos when zooming in and out, but not during the actual shooting?
What makes the Sony EVF worse or the Nikon EVF better? A good EVF is actually very important to me. I find it a bit surprising.
Yes, that's a question I'd like to see a clear answer to as well. Well, I'd prefer to see the difference with my own eyes even more .
My best guess is that it's due to Sony's EVF dropping resolution while AF is active, which is disruptive. At least that's the case on High quality, maybe Standard quality is simply lower res than Nikon's default resolution...
p.19 #2 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
As soon as a camera is released with a 4 million pixel EVF, we may know the answer.
Sony A7RV EVF has 9.44 Million Dots. It only has 3.15 Million Pixels.
More accurate would be to use the word maximum:
Sony A7RV EVF has a maximum 3.15 Million Pixels and a maximum refresh rate of 120 fps.
Those two maximum specs are mutually exclusive.
I don't think anyone can provide a complete list of how much either of those specs is reduced depending on what the user is doing.
For Nikon, 'maximum' is not needed. I don't know if there are scenarios where it does not match it's less impressive EVF specs, but generally, it performs to spec.
zeitlos wrote:
What would interest me the most: Why is the Sony EVF of the 7R V worse than that of the Nikon Z8 even though the Sony viewfinder has a much higher resolution?
Is a higher resolution (let‘s say above 4 million pixels) only helpful when viewing the captured photos when zooming in and out, but not during the actual shooting?
What makes the Sony EVF worse or the Nikon EVF better? A good EVF is actually very important to me. I find it a bit surprising.
p.19 #3 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
Choderboy wrote:
As soon as a camera is released with a 4 million pixel EVF, we may know the answer.
Sony A7RV EVF has 9.44 Million Dots. It only has 3.15 Million Pixels.
Well, it's "only" the highest res EVF we've seen in C/N/S cameras to date ...
Choderboy wrote:
Sony A7RV EVF has a maximum 3.15 Million Pixels and a maximum refresh rate of 120 fps.
Those two maximum specs are mutually exclusive.
Was there any report of resolution drop when changing refresh to 120 fps on A7RV? I only know A1 zooms out the view when refresh rate is set to 240 fps.
Choderboy wrote:
For Nikon, 'maximum' is not needed. I don't know if there are scenarios where it does not match it's less impressive EVF specs, but generally, it performs to spec.
It's still a massive difference (9.6 vs 3.69 million dot, actual resolution is just those values divided by 3; 0.9 vs 0.8 magnification). That's why I find it so surprising to see people saying Z9/Z8 EVF is better...
https://www.cameralabs.com/sony-a7r-mark-v-review/
Note to exploit the full detail though you will need to set the Display Quality to High and accept a temporary reduction in detail as the camera focuses; obviously this becomes limiting if you’re continuously autofocusing on a moving subject, but it’s actually a common restriction across multiple systems, and again in Single AF or playback it looks great. Note the EVF resolution will also reduce when you choose 120fps refresh.
https://www.cameralabs.com/sony-a7r-mark-v-review/
Note to exploit the full detail though you will need to set the Display Quality to High and accept a temporary reduction in detail as the camera focuses; obviously this becomes limiting if you’re continuously autofocusing on a moving subject, but it’s actually a common restriction across multiple systems, and again in Single AF or playback it looks great. Note the EVF resolution will also reduce when you choose 120fps refresh....Show more →
Ah, yes - it make sense. I misread it initially, but indeed only High quality (which disables 120 fps refresh option) provides the maximum resolution.
It would be interesting to compare A7RV standard EVF quality with Z9/Z8 in detail then (sans magnification difference)...
My other points stand though.
https://www.cameralabs.com/sony-a7r-mark-v-review/
Note to exploit the full detail though you will need to set the Display Quality to High and accept a temporary reduction in detail as the camera focuses; obviously this becomes limiting if you’re continuously autofocusing on a moving subject, but it’s actually a common restriction across multiple systems, and again in Single AF or playback it looks great. Note the EVF resolution will also reduce when you choose 120fps refresh....Show more →
Thank you, it‘s getting clearer now. One slightly OT question. I am considering buying the A7R V even though I don‘t need (and actually don‘t really want) a camera with 60 megapixels. However, I pay a lot attention to the EVF. So would it be correct to assume that the EVF of the A7IV – in reality – isn‘t that far away from the EVF of the 7R V because of resolution drops etc.?
May 18, 2023 at 04:22 AM
duncang Offline • • • [X]
p.19 #7 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
zeitlos wrote:
Thank you, it‘s getting clearer now. One slightly OT question. I am considering buying the A7R V even though I don‘t need (and actually don‘t really want) a camera with 60 megapixels. However, I pay a lot attention to the EVF. So would it be correct to assume that the EVF of the A7IV – in reality – isn‘t that far away from the EVF of the 7R V because of resolution drops etc.?
The higher resolution (e.g. 9mp) EVF makes reviewing images in camera easier and I find I can better assess the sharpness of the resulting image. On lower resolution EVF (e.g. 35mp)/high resolution camera like the Z9 I find I can't really determine whether the image is critically sharp by reviewing in camera.
As for dropping resolution at higher frame rates the a7rv drops to 5mp as does the A1 (at 240p). However ones doesn't really need 9mp when shooting action, 5mp is more than enough and it is more important to have zero lag and no blackout - so this is no problem at all. For the smoothest EVF experience 5mp at 240p means fast erratic action is easier for the operator to follow.
p.19 #8 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
duncang wrote:
The higher resolution (e.g. 9mp) EVF makes reviewing images in camera easier and I find I can better assess the sharpness of the resulting image. On lower resolution EVF (e.g. 35mp)/high resolution camera like the Z9 I find I can't really determine whether the image is critically sharp by reviewing in camera.
As for dropping resolution at higher frame rates the a7rv drops to 5mp as does the A1 (at 240p). However ones doesn't really need 9mp when shooting action, 5mp is more than enough and it is more important to have zero lag and no blackout - so this is no problem at all. For the smoothest EVF experience 5mp at 240p means fast erratic action is easier for the operator to follow....Show more →
p.19 #9 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
I think you need to experience EVFs and the cameras they are in to know if you will be satisfied.
I had an EOS R. I much preferred it's 3.7md EVF to Sony 3.7md, just to look through. Probably the same OLED panel, but the EOS R looked, to me, more natural. Adjusting the Sony Contrast and Saturation to -1 made it closer to Canon, but I still preferred the Canon. That is, until I looked through the Canon at even a slow moving subject and took a photo. Shutter Stutter! Canon implemented frame insertion in a terrible way, IMHO. There is no spec listed to describe that. I would have much preferred blackout. I saw 1 review that mentioned this issue. I saw many that did not.
I have not held a Nikon Z9, but with so many people reporting they really like it's EVF, despite it's ordinary specs, I have no trouble believing I may agree when I do try one.
p.19 #10 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
Many people are forgetting that there are some optics included in the EVF as well- which can play a significant role between camera brands, and even from camera to camera within brands. It could be what is at play that isn't revealed in the raw spec sheet stats.
p.19 #11 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
zeitlos wrote:
Thank you, it‘s getting clearer now. One slightly OT question. I am considering buying the A7R V even though I don‘t need (and actually don‘t really want) a camera with 60 megapixels. However, I pay a lot attention to the EVF. So would it be correct to assume that the EVF of the A7IV – in reality – isn‘t that far away from the EVF of the 7R V because of resolution drops etc.?
I had the A7IV and now the RV. There's a significant difference in the display quality of the EVF's IMO. Looking at the EVF in the RV is a wonderful experience for the most part to me. I don't notice the drop in quality and all that other stuff. It just looks great when taking pictures and viewing images.
The A7IV is not bad. It's just ordinary. If you used any of the previous Sony cameras before the A7RIVa or A1 then you probably know what the EVF is like.
p.19 #12 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
Dultimate wrote:
I had the A7IV and now the RV. There's a significant difference in the display quality of the EVF's IMO. Looking at the EVF in the RV is a wonderful experience for the most part to me. I don't notice the drop in quality and all that other stuff. It just looks great when taking pictures and viewing images.
The A7IV is not bad. It's just ordinary. If you used any of the previous Sony cameras before the A7RIVa or A1 then you probably know what the EVF is like.
Currently, I‘m still using the Sony A7III. And since I don‘t shoot action/sports etc. my preferences are ergonomics, dynamics, EVF etc. So I assume both might be a step upwards. But I‘m trying to find out which one‘s the best, Sony A7 IV, Sony A7R V or Nikon Z8.
Since it‘s still not in stores, I cannot really say which one‘s best or whether there are any noticeable differences at all.
p.19 #13 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
Currently, I‘m still using the Sony A7III. And since I don‘t shoot action/sports etc. my preferences are ergonomics, dynamics, EVF etc. So I assume both might be a step upwards. But I‘m trying to find out which one‘s the best, Sony A7 IV, Sony A7R V or Nikon Z8.
Since it‘s still not in stores, I cannot really say which one‘s best or whether there are any noticeable differences at all.
I was shooting the A7III since 2018. I bought the A7IV in December of 2021 and haven't looked back. It's a major upgrade to A7III imho. I'm getting shots with the A7IV that I never seemed to get with the A7III.
I briefly owned the A7RIV and returned it. The high noise at even low ISO was annoying to me. Plus I think the sensor was misaligned since none of my shots were in focus.
Also briefly owned the A9II, but couldn't justify the $4,500.
If I were in the market? I'd be taking a hard look at the new Nikon Z8. A 45mp stacked sensor and shutterless for $4,000? The only issue with Nikon is the lens choice and prices that go with that. Even though Nikon is slowly opening their lens mount to Sigma and Tamron. And yes, the Z8 looks great on paper. But would like to see more reviews on actual use.
p.19 #14 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
Thank you. Very informative!
Btw. I just checked when the A7III was release => 2018. The A7IV 2021. So maybe one more year and I can upgrade to the A7V then.
But let‘s see, I will check the Nikon Z8 as soon as it‘s on stock at my dealer.
As far as the A7RV is concerned, I also fear too much noise. I‘m curious to find out how the Z8 compares. I also hope that there will be more in detail tests of the Z8 soon.
p.19 #15 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
Just a point I noticed using any viewfinder is, over time a good cleanning of the glass in the viewfinder makes a big difference. Its amazing how fast when out shooting in so many conditions how it becomes dirty. Just like using lenes
p.19 #16 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
zeitlos wrote:
Thank you. Very informative!
Btw. I just checked when the A7III was release => 2018. The A7IV 2021. So maybe one more year and I can upgrade to the A7V then.
But let‘s see, I will check the Nikon Z8 as soon as it‘s on stock at my dealer.
As far as the A7RV is concerned, I also fear too much noise. I‘m curious to find out how the Z8 compares. I also hope that there will be more in detail tests of the Z8 soon.
Too much noise in the A7R5? Where is the world did that come from. Not at all it's actually quite good. Interesting
p.19 #17 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
GMPhotography wrote:
Too much noise in the A7R5? Where is the world did that come from. Not at all it's actually quite good. Interesting
And with the wonders de-noise software can do these days, noise is about the last quality I'm looking at in modern cameras.
May 18, 2023 at 10:53 AM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.19 #18 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
GMPhotography wrote:
Too much noise in the A7R5? Where is the world did that come from. Not at all it's actually quite good. Interesting
It may well have come from comparing it to other camera at 100% on screen. When you do that the A7r5 will have more magnification than the other cameras so yeah, you will see more noise. When you hold the output size, whether printed, or in the number of pixel constant the A7R5 will do fine with noise even at pretty high ISO. I think you can expect that the Z8, A7rV, and A1 will all have pretty similar noise if the output size is held constant. The Nikon will probably be the worst of the three but by a small amount, so small it won't be noticeable in many shots.
p.19 #19 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
Steve Spencer wrote:
It may well have come from comparing it to other camera at 100% on screen. When you do that the A7r5 will have more magnification than the other cameras so yeah, you will see more noise. When you hold the output size, whether printed, or in the number of pixel constant the A7R5 will do fine with noise even at pretty high ISO. I think you can expect that the Z8, A7rV, and A1 will all have pretty similar noise if the output size is held constant. The Nikon will probably be the worst of the three but by a small amount, so small it won't be noticeable in many shots....Show more →
Yea maybe that's it Steve but at this point in digital noise is no where near what it was in the past. Maybe the last thing to concern oneself with in todays world . My big runway stuff looked very good to my older A9II and A1 images and that is always a constant source for me to go by.
I can't speak of Nikon and I wont but they lost me years ago by sleeping at the wheel. So I refuse to even look at them anymore.
We are all different here as I look for long term support and Sony has provided that for me with some great cams.
Anyway im staying out of this thread per say and wish you all good luck with these decisions but folks look for a camera that always will do more for you than what you need today as you grow in the photo world
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? Where is the world did that come from. Not at all it's actually quite good. Interesting