p.18 #3 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
osv2 wrote:
it's hardly just sony that offers edu discounts, both adorama and b&h for example have done it with multiple brands of gear, for instance: https://www.adorama.com/g/students
nikon can afford to whore out the z8 pricing because it's a z9 in another wrapper, with no innovation and no improvements from what they did with the z9 a year and a half ago.
i'm not aware of any company that's done anything like that; nikon recouped the z9 r&d costs already, they don't need the z8 to pay for that, it's just dead tech from what was already done.
of course z8 is going to cripple future z9 sales, why pay $1500 more for the same camera? i imagine that nikon figured out that they lost a lot of sales to people who wanted a smaller camera, and refused to buy the z9 boat anchor.
nikon stunts like the z8 pricing and no mechanical shutters reek of desperation to me, it's a calculated gamble from a conservative company that knows it lost it's leadership position in the market years ago.
z8 represents a lot of value, but if i'd paid $1500 more for the z9 i'd be upset.
I don't think the Z8 will do anything to Z9 or A1 sales - my guess is Sony and Nikon has already sold 80% or more of every possible A1 and Z9 units possible. I also wouldn't be surprised if Z9 used prices really compress since a lot of the Nikon faithful probably bought more camera than they needed since the rest of the line was mediocre. The Sony A1 is probably overpriced today so probably time for Sony to do a refresh and lower the price of the older model.
This is really about going after the next level of the market and it competes against the Sony A7RV and Canon R5 at MSRP and against used GFX100s or a used Sony A1 at around $4500 for those cameras. Nikon basically segmented the Z8 vs the Z9 by making the battery life much lower and crippling the card slots. However, the Z8 isn't a bad value proposition if you are basically looking for a DSLR replacement. I find the Sony A7R5 and my GM prime lenses too big already so the Z8 + Nikon lenses doesn't add anything new.
p.18 #5 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
We have all that. Our price includes tax. Free health. Strong consumer protection. 2 years warranty. Canon warranty is 5 years. Yet A1 and Z9 are very close in price.
So compared to other places, that means Nikon has a higher profit margin in Europe and even higher in Australia.
Amount of tax is irrelevant anyway. The same percentage of tax is irrelevant added to all cameras.
ilkka_nissila wrote:
In Europe, there are strict consumer protection laws and the minimum warranty is two years. Also there are higher taxes than in the US (VAT, income tax, social security fees etc.) which pay for free school, relatively low-cost health care, low-cost day care, and free university for everyone in many European countries. Although cameras are cheap in the US, one needs to spend a lot of money for a lot of things that Europeans in many countries don't need to pay for.
I would expect the prices are set so that each distributor or subsidiary for Nikon (as well as Nikon Japan which owns most of the distributors) makes a profit. This price can be different depending on the country due to different economies, legislation and people's purchasing power and what type of products they're willing to buy and what prices etc. ...Show more →
p.18 #8 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
1bwana1 wrote:
But if you are a Z8 buyer you are very happy right now.
Agreed but I think the fit is really for existing Nikon owners. I think the roi of switching systems from canon sony or fuji for it is poor
p.18 #9 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
RoamingScott wrote:
Anyone who has bought Sony in the US with the EDU discount knows exactly how much Sony is skimming off their products.
You have no idea if Sony is still making margins selling at education discounts or they are selling at a loss. It’s very smart targeted marketing to get the young ( soon to be money makers ) hooked into Sony from a young age as we all know the first purchase is never your last. Selling at a loss today to reap the rewards tomorrow has always been a marketing strategy.
No one here knows anything about the margins Sony sells their gear at.
p.18 #10 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
RoamingScott wrote:
The two EDU programs are nothing alike.
Not that different. A large company is giving a break to students. In one case the student doesn't get to keep the product when the class is over while the other case they do. Both can be written off (if sold at a loss) by the company. Both programs are designed to get students and teachers familiar with their products over the products of a rival to help drive future sales.
p.18 #11 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
tzhang4284 wrote:
Agreed but I think the fit is really for existing Nikon owners. I think the roi of switching systems from canon sony or fuji for it is poor
If one looks at it from an ROI, switching from any system to another is very hard to justify. In fact I know a few wedding photographers that are still using ancient DSLR based systems and they basically say they will make no extra money using the latest gear, but it would cost them tens of thousands of dollars to switch.
p.18 #13 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
Yup but I think the value you’re getting from going from dslr to mirrorless is a lot greater than from one mirrorless ff system to another. Maybe from aps-c to ff, but even then I think Sony offers a more robust system unless you do wildlife photography.
chez wrote:
If one looks at it from an ROI, switching from any system to another is very hard to justify. In fact I know a few wedding photographers that are still using ancient DSLR based systems and they basically say they will make no extra money using the latest gear, but it would cost them tens of thousands of dollars to switch.
p.18 #14 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
I don't get all the hate. Nikon is selling a product that should put pressure on Canon to make the next R5 with a stacked sensor. I don't know how far the A9III is on it's way but assuming that Sony holds true to form the next one will have a higher MP sensor compared to the A9 and the A9II. The Z8 could force Sony to sell it at a competitive price point.
As for the A1, it was a no holds barred camera. But chip designs have improved over the last couple years. Also chip fabs are finding themselves underloaded. That means that fabs will make chips at a discount. I'm betting that Sony and Nikon bought a supply of chips for the A1 and Z9 when prices were sky high. The price of them may not come down anytime soon until their supply is used up.
p.18 #16 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
So this thread I started has reached a good length will lots of good comment and not a huge amount of hate but there has been some.
So will anyone here try out the Z8? I might but I’m a gear head who spent my working life designing Semicondictor chips, some being sensors but mostly embedded processors like you find in cameras, signal processors, etc.
I did try the Z9 for a year but found it too big and heavy for me. That actually maybe a reason for me not to try the Z8 because I know what it will produce. I am interested in the body size and feel because I tend to use my Sony A1 and other bodies with a grip but bet the Z8’s bigger size and grip may be a perfect fit. Weight wise it’s like an A1 with a battery grip.
p.18 #18 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
ilkka_nissila wrote:
In Europe, there are strict consumer protection laws and the minimum warranty is two years. Also there are higher taxes than in the US (VAT, income tax, social security fees etc.) which pay for free school, relatively low-cost health care, low-cost day care, and free university for everyone in many European countries. Although cameras are cheap in the US, one needs to spend a lot of money for a lot of things that Europeans in many countries don't need to pay for.
I would expect the prices are set so that each distributor or subsidiary for Nikon (as well as Nikon Japan which owns most of the distributors) makes a profit. This price can be different depending on the country due to different economies, legislation and people's purchasing power and what type of products they're willing to buy and what prices etc. ...Show more →
In addition to VAT, what also pays for your “…free school, relatively low-cost health care, low-cost day care, and free university” is the US effectively massively subsidizing European military defense costs for the past 80+ years.
“ one needs to spend a lot of money for a lot of things that Europeans in many countries don't need to pay for.”
p.18 #20 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
What would interest me the most: Why is the Sony EVF of the 7R V worse than that of the Nikon Z8 even though the Sony viewfinder has a much higher resolution?
Is a higher resolution (let‘s say above 4 million pixels) only helpful when viewing the captured photos when zooming in and out, but not during the actual shooting?
What makes the Sony EVF worse or the Nikon EVF better? A good EVF is actually very important to me. I find it a bit surprising.
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