p.16 #1 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
arbitrage wrote:
What the Z8 has made me realize is just how large the margins must be on the A1.
I mean Nikon has to buy that custom designed stacked sensor from Sony Semi and can still cram it in and sell it for $4K.
...
Yep Sony needs to start loosing some market share, then they will be compelled to release better products and lower prices. They have started to remind me of Canon back in the days before mirrorless.
p.16 #5 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
randomguy wrote:
Yep Sony needs to start loosing some market share, then they will be compelled to release better products and lower prices. They have started to remind me of Canon back in the days before mirrorless.
Ain’t it funny how we compare the latest releases from both Canon and Nikon against Sony’s 2 year old release and they still fall short in many areas. What exactly is holding you up from making great images with today’s Sony cameras.
p.16 #6 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
I've been shooting Sony for almost 10 years now, and I've been very happy, more than I was at the end of my 20 years or so shooting Canon. I imagine there are happy Nikon shooters, Canon shooters, etc. Find the equipment that works for you, and be happy.
p.16 #7 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
chez wrote:
Ain’t it funny how we compare the latest releases from both Canon and Nikon against Sony’s 2 year old release and they still fall short in many areas. What exactly is holding you up from making great images with today’s Sony cameras.
If you can't make great images with any modern camera, you're a potato and need to move on from photography.
Every system has some push/pull with things I like vs others...overall it's about finding the best balance between it all and reducing the friction to simply leaving the house. Once I'm out, I'm always happy with the shots I come back with, no matter the brand.
p.16 #8 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
chez wrote:
Ain’t it funny how we compare the latest releases from both Canon and Nikon against Sony’s 2 year old release and they still fall short in many areas. What exactly is holding you up from making great images with today’s Sony cameras.
What is holding me up from making great images with today’s Sony cameras is that - I don't own them ( Rx100 Vii does not count)
If we all own Sony Cameras what we will argue about
May 14, 2023 at 06:29 PM
osv2 Offline • • • • [X]
p.16 #9 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
Tyr-Sog wrote:
Contradicting? I gave you an example where it fits in.
the conversation was about the implementation of diffractive optics between 800pf vs. 800/11, but you claimed that it "fit in" with standard lens designs.
which it really doesn't, especially since nikon still doesn't have that 600mm superzoom that they've been claiming for the last three years, the 800pf has cheap stepper motors that the other lens don't use, etc.
overpriced niche primes with repetitive extremely long focal lengths are not a complete lens lineup, and no doubt that's one reason why sony has taken over most of the nikon market share.
Tyr-Sog wrote:
if the RF800 had most of Canons RF600 coatings, formulas, and Tech it would be more than $1000.
you keep saying that, you can't specifically list what it is, even with nikon, lol
Tyr-Sog wrote:
I see just about all of Nikons top line technology added to the Z800mm, just about all of it.
i'm the only person in this conversation who has been specific, when i delineated the types of focus motors.
Tyr-Sog wrote:
btw, junky AF?
what part of nikon telling you that vcm was better, was unclear?
why do nikon owners always think that they know more than nikon itself.
p.16 #10 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
osv2 wrote:
lol, exactly
"all of Nikons top line technology" means you are getting the secret decoder ring with it, you are now part of the club
This is probably the dumbest line of reasoning I’ve ever seen posted on this forum in memory.
Regarding your original question, an 800/5.6 costs $13k. If someone were to make an 800/4.5, it would likely be much more than the price increase you described.
p.16 #13 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
PIOK wrote:
What is holding me up from making great images with today’s Sony cameras is that - I don't own them ( Rx100 Vii does not count)
Sure it does. Welcome to the cult. Please return in a week with your five converts to the brand.
PIOK wrote:
If we all own Sony Cameras what we will argue about
What disappoints us about the new releases and what Sony NEEDS to do to keep our business. The same crap we argue about when we're not stoking rivalries with people shooting other brands.
p.16 #14 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
chez wrote:
Ain’t it funny how we compare the latest releases from both Canon and Nikon against Sony’s 2 year old release and they still fall short in many areas. What exactly is holding you up from making great images with today’s Sony cameras.
Specifically a stacked sensor camera for usd $4k that have picture profile like slog and hlg 10 bit. I use multi camera bodies so I cannot afford multiple a1 or z9.
Honestly the even the ancient a9 is pretty decent but there is a pretty big difference in video without 10 bit and picture profiles.
p.16 #15 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
Daran wrote:
Given Nikon's current market position, their closed lens mount and high lens prices, they might be selling the Z8 with small margin or even loss, hoping to recover mid term via lens sales.
You might be right. But the Z8 also lacks an expensive shutter. They had to do zero RnD compared to cameras with new sensor options. They know the failure rate of Z9, cut down on service, parts and probably get substantial discounts on batch part orders. A smart move. Margins might be not that bad. Or if t hey are small (and recover in the ay you said) it would still be a smart move to ensure margins at all! (like certain car makers sell/used to sell with loss - i.e. Fiat "please do not buy EV 500").
May 15, 2023 at 01:10 AM
Steve Spencer Online • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.16 #16 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
osv2 wrote:
the conversation was about the implementation of diffractive optics between 800pf vs. 800/11, but you claimed that it "fit in" with standard lens designs.
which it really doesn't, especially since nikon still doesn't have that 600mm superzoom that they've been claiming for the last three years, the 800pf has cheap stepper motors that the other lens don't use, etc.
overpriced niche primes with repetitive extremely long focal lengths are not a complete lens lineup, and no doubt that's one reason why sony has taken over most of the nikon market share.
you keep saying that, you can't specifically list what it is, even with nikon, lol
i'm the only person in this conversation who has been specific, when i delineated the types of focus motors.
what part of nikon telling you that vcm was better, was unclear?
why do nikon owners always think that they know more than nikon itself....Show more →
Please stop with the misinformation. You need to provide evidence for claims like Nikon saying linear motors are better. You have provided no such information and that linear motors are better for a particular lens does not count. I am sure Nikon will say that the motors they choose for each lens are the best motors for that lens and its design. Your claim is ludicrous as you propose it. Nikon is certainly not saying that they put the wrong motors in a bunch of their lenses, but that is how you are making it sound.
p.16 #17 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
Steve Spencer wrote:
Please stop with the misinformation. You need to provide evidence for claims like Nikon saying linear motors are better. You have provided no such information and that linear motors are better for a particular lens does not count. I am sure Nikon will say that the motors they choose for each lens are the best motors for that lens and its design. Your claim is ludicrous as you propose it. Nikon is certainly not saying that they put the wrong motors in a bunch of their lenses, but that is how you are making it sound.
From what I had read about lens motor technology, I was kind of with the "stepper motors are not suitable" crowd. I now classify this along with the "adapted lenses will never keep up performance wise" opinion I also held. Now that the Z9 is out, and performing extremely well with native stepper motor lenses, adapted lenses, and even adapted stepper motor lenses, I have to say that this view has been proven to be wrong.
Maybe there is a limit to how fast these lenses can perform, but the existing 20/30 fps speed have not reached this point yet it seems.
Maybe a different motor type would in fact drive the lenses faster, but the images being captured on the Z9 prove (at least to me) that they can preform at the current industry standard level.
p.16 #18 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
RoamingScott wrote:
If you can't make great images with any modern camera, you're a potato and need to move on from photography.
Every system has some push/pull with things I like vs others...overall it's about finding the best balance between it all and reducing the friction to simply leaving the house. Once I'm out, I'm always happy with the shots I come back with, no matter the brand.
Yes - the weird lacuna between brands are bigger in photography than in (say) cell phones for some reason. If Google comes up with something (e.g night mode) you can be sure that Apple is going to ship an equivalent feature before too long.
But in photography, for some reason, you get these gaps (e.g. no Pre-shot in Sony and there are lots of examples going all directions) in the products lines that persist for what seems like ages.
I used to half imagine that the business folks from the various brands were meeting in secret to plan out what features each of the companies would be keeping for themselves to keep the various keiretsu happy (how else to explain no small weather sealed primes to go with the small weather sealed bodies for Olympus and no small weather sealed bodies to go with the small weather sealed primes for Fuji? (that was awhile ago, of course)).
But I now think they're probably just stubborn and kindof dysfunctional .
p.16 #20 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
If you ever work as a photojournalist and are easily recognizable as such in public you will be besieged by folks asking for advice. The conversation usually begins with a comment about your "big camera" and goes on from there. Only very rarely does someone ask how to take a particular picture. Very rarely. It is almost always about gear.
The worst offenders are the guys with all the accoutrements of the "professional photographer" who want to engage you in a discussion about their gear.
This thread reminds me of that. The essential truth is that both cameras represent the state-of-the-art in modern photographic equipment. Yes there is some trivial difference between them but a good photographer with any of the above (and I will include the vapor-ware prenatal A9III) can do anything any of us want to do and then some. The idea that someone would jump ship from one brand to the other on the minuscule differences is preposterous. Yet some do. Let's just say that this is not a testimonial to their sagacity.
So my question is, comparing the Z8 or the A7RV what is it that I may need to do that the camera cannot do and do well?
