p.8 #1 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
kaplah wrote:
One moment it's "my A7R III has way less issues loosing track of someone's face during a portrait shoot.", the next it's "Where did I say the the Z9 is bad at portraits?"
Hence I blocked him/her.
But this thread imploded quickly, and a) that makes it much less useful than it could be and b) make me wonder what the standards for moderation are.
After all, the posters' demeanor is clearly under the umbrella of "problematic (harassment, fighting, or rude) posts", as well as nutty.
I'll still buy a Z8
Another 20 post page where I can only see 3 posts, one of them mine
p.8 #2 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
Just wanted to say I’m happy for all the Nikon shooters, this looks like a fantastic camera. Hoping that the inclusion of a stacked sensor in a non-flagship body will spur other manufacturers to follow suit. This release really reminds me of the D700 which I still think is one of the most influential DSLR’s Nikon ever put out, loved that body when I owned it.
p.8 #3 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
Matt Granger posted a buffer comparison to the Z9. With dual CFE and SD cards the buffer starts throttling at 15/20 fps whereas the Z9's effective buffer is infinite. It however matches the Z9 when only the CFE card is being written to. The latter part was disclosed in the comment section rather than the video. Nothing surprising here.
p.8 #4 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
EB-1 wrote:
I suppose the question is how many fewer Z9s Nikon will sell.
EBH
Not our problem.
And besides, if they even make half the profit selling the Z8 as they do from a Z9, and end up selling 10x more Z8s (due to size, weight, PRICE), then it's a big win.
p.8 #5 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
Everythingis1 wrote:
I didn't say I say I was having problems with the Z9, and I didn't say that the A7R III was a better shooting experience (it's not nearly as nice as Nikon's shooting experience). However my A7R III has way less issues loosing track of someone's face during a portrait shoot. Is that being exaggerated by just how many more pictures I'm taking on the Z9? Yeah, it is, but percentage wise it is legitimately not nearly as high. The Z9 AF is VERY GOOD, it is just also literally worse at some things than several other models of much older cameras that are using objectively worse and less capable hardware.
You maybe did not explicitly say that, but you are saying your A7R3 has less AF issues and can track better (i.e. a face) than your Z9. You seem to be ignoring everyone else when we say that is not the norm, and something is clearly either wrong with your Z9, your technique, or your settings. Your sample size is one, and you are trying to use your highly unusual experience to make a conclusion about one camera being "literally worse" than another in an area that happens to defy all credible user reports I have seen since the Z9 announcement, every reputable professional review I have seen, and other people's experience on these forums including my own. If you can't see why that raises some eyebrows, I don't know what else to say, but that is why people are reacting the way they are to your comments. We're here to help if you want to investigate why you might be having AF issues with your Z9.
Imagine if I went on some Ferrari forums, and made a post saying something like " My 6-year-old Honda Civic is getting me better lap times than my brand new Ferrari" What kind of responses do you think I'd get? Do you think people would say "oh wow, I guess my Ferrari isn't that impressive after all", or do you think they would point out that something must be wrong based on common sense, professional reviews, and the collective experience of the group?
I actually have an A7R5 with me right now (rented for my father's benefit), and my Z9 is noticeably stickier when it comes to face/eye AF. It's damn near infallible when tracking my two nieces running around and playing even at F1.8, which is my current 'people' subject matter. On top of that, it's able to detect a face at a noticeably greater distance than the A7R5. And here you are telling us that your two-generation-older A7R3 is outperforming your Z9 with regards to face tracking - fine, who are we to tell you what you're experiencing, but I really think you need to start looking into what you might be doing wrong (technique or settings) or what might be wrong with your Z9 (possible warranty issue). Again - when you're the only one noticing this issue, and it defies both common sense and the general experiences of others, where do you think the problem is most likely to be? If that were my camera, I would probably be sending it to Nikon to check.
p.8 #6 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
dasams wrote:
It's very disappointing that Snapbridge doesn't work with iOS 16.4. If you go to the Apple App Store, you'll see that the latest Snapbridge version is 2.9.1 and it was released 6 months ago. Come on Nikon - update that app so that we can import GPS 😡
Unfortunately, Nikon apparently does not avail itself of Apple's Developer program, which gives developers pre-release versions of the OS so that their apps can be tested. Nikon waits until there's an official release and then does updates. I can't prove it, but I think that Nikon's programmers also don't follow Apple's guidelines - if they did, there would be fewer problems when Apple updates the OS (but not the Intel to M1/M2 transition, which obviously was a major change, especially in regards to 16-bit apps).
Nikon announced recently that they've removed salary restrictions so that they can hire better engineering talent. Hopefully this applies to software development as well, which they've never been great at.
But they're not the only ones. I have a Blackjet TX-1CXQ XQD/CFExpress drive. Worked fine with my old Mac. Bought a new Mac a few months ago. CF Express works fine. I filled a card last weekend and switched to an XQD card that I had. When I tried to get the images off it, the drive wouldn't read the XQD card. Contacted their customer service and was told that it needs a new driver which "they're working on". Really? The first M1 Macs arrived in November of 2020.
They gave me a link to a third party driver, but I could not get it to install. Luckily I still had the old Mac, so I loaded it there, transferred the files to a USB drive and then onto the new Mac.
p.8 #7 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
A comment about auto focus.
IMO this stuff about Nikon's auto focus being poor is just nonsense. Even with the now long-in-the tooth Z6II I can nail a cowboy's eye, on a bright day, in the shadow of his hat, while riding a bull more than 80% of the time. Way more. But just call it that. So I am shooting a violently and unpredictably moving target at 14 FPS and getting perfect eye focus on more than 11 frames per second.
Let's put that into perspective Canon's 1dX could just barely hit that frame rate at all. Nikon d5 only an insignificant amount better. But the gearheads among us (myself included) are looking for just about any distinction on which to base our fanboy loyalty. I caught myself with a Canon shooter carping on the mostly insignificant dynamic range advantage my D4 had. Truly pole-vaulting over mouse droppings.
So I am thrilled with Nikon Z series auto focus. To the extent that there is any difference between Nikon and brand X I really could not care less. No doubt this machine will be at least as good as the Z9. And that is pretty darned good.
Folks. Some of us shot sports with a Speed Graphic. We are living in the garden of Eden.
p.8 #8 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
RickPJ wrote:
A comment about auto focus.
IMO this stuff about Nikon's auto focus being poor is just nonsense. Even with the now long-in-the tooth Z6II I can nail a cowboy's eye, on a bright day, in the shadow of his hat, while riding a bull more than 80% of the time. Way more. But just call it that. So I am shooting a violently and unpredictably moving target at 14 FPS and getting perfect eye focus on more than 11 frames per second.
Let's put that into perspective Canon's 1dX could just barely hit that frame rate at all. Nikon d5 only an insignificant amount better. But the gearheads among us (myself included) are looking for just about any distinction on which to base our fanboy loyalty. I caught myself with a Canon shooter carping on the mostly insignificant dynamic range advantage my D4 had. Truly pole-vaulting over mouse droppings.
So I am thrilled with Nikon Z series auto focus. To the extent that there is any difference between Nikon and brand X I really could not care less. No doubt this machine will be at least as good as the Z9. And that is pretty darned good.
Folks. Some of us shot sports with a Speed Graphic. We are living in the garden of Eden. ...Show more →
All true, but “pole-vaulting over mouse droppings” is great. I’ve never heard that before.
p.8 #9 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
Tony5787 wrote:
Just wanted to say I’m happy for all the Nikon shooters, this looks like a fantastic camera. Hoping that the inclusion of a stacked sensor in a non-flagship body will spur other manufacturers to follow suit. This release really reminds me of the D700 which I still think is one of the most influential DSLR’s Nikon ever put out, loved that body when I owned it.
I would consider Canon absolute fools to NOT provide the upcoming R5MkII with a Stacked BSI sensor. Otherwise they can count on the Z8 eating them for lunch. There would be NO incentive to get an R5MkII if they don't. If they DO, then indeed the war can begin. I would expect the R5MkII to come baited for bear in performance. We're probably at least 7-10 months away from knowing the answer to that one. In the mean time it gives Nikon plenty of time to recapture their market share in that category.
p.8 #11 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
RickPJ wrote:
A comment about auto focus.
IMO this stuff about Nikon's auto focus being poor is just nonsense. Even with the now long-in-the tooth Z6II I can nail a cowboy's eye, on a bright day, in the shadow of his hat, while riding a bull more than 80% of the time. Way more. But just call it that. So I am shooting a violently and unpredictably moving target at 14 FPS and getting perfect eye focus on more than 11 frames per second.
Let's put that into perspective Canon's 1dX could just barely hit that frame rate at all. Nikon d5 only an insignificant amount better. But the gearheads among us (myself included) are looking for just about any distinction on which to base our fanboy loyalty. I caught myself with a Canon shooter carping on the mostly insignificant dynamic range advantage my D4 had. Truly pole-vaulting over mouse droppings.
So I am thrilled with Nikon Z series auto focus. To the extent that there is any difference between Nikon and brand X I really could not care less. No doubt this machine will be at least as good as the Z9. And that is pretty darned good.
Folks. Some of us shot sports with a Speed Graphic. We are living in the garden of Eden. ...Show more →
I think that mirrorless AF has reached functional parity between the major brands. Parity at a 90% hit rate on the most difficult subjects seems good enough for me. I expect that major improvements are pretty much done.
I also think we have reached the area of diminishing returns as far as resolution goes. I feel no need for more resolution than my 50mp A1, and my 61mp Leica M11 provide. In fact, I could be happier with a little less.
So that leaves only a few areas I am looking for improvement in.
First is usability. Any features that make it easier to produce top quality images is most welcome.
This would include possible improvements in customization, and possibly something like function macros where I link changes in configuration to a single button.
Better exposure metering, and controls.
Better white balance auto settings.
A big one would be improved light gathering, better Dynamic Range, lower noise like is being implemented in the new Sony dual layer sensors. Imagine a FF dual layer stacked sensor. That could be meaningful innovation.
Finally, better communication and image sharing direct from the camera.
p.8 #12 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
1bwana1 wrote:
This would include possible improvements in customization, and possibly something like function macros where I link changes in configuration to a single button.
Nikon settings banks do this, no?
Better white balance auto settings.
If there's one thing I've never been able to complain about on Nikon MILCs, it's the auto white balance. It's amazing how dead on it always is, with no color cast like previous brands.
p.8 #13 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
RoamingScott wrote:
Nikon settings banks do this, no?
If there's one thing I've never been able to complain about on Nikon MILCs, it's the auto white balance. It's amazing how dead on it always is, with no color cast like previous brands.
No, banks don't do it. They only allow you to set a group of certain controls. No conditional statements, or ability to auto load named setting files, or give you on the fly decision points. Customization of cameras could be much more powerful than it is.
The Nikon auto white balance may give you a look you like, but it has a bias. I think if you checked it against a color card you will see that this is true. The auto white balance function could be much more powerful, and precise.
p.8 #14 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
1bwana1 wrote:
I think that mirrorless AF has reached functional parity between the major brands. Parity at a 90% hit rate on the most difficult subjects seems good enough for me. I expect that major improvements are pretty much done.
I also think we have reached the area of diminishing returns as far as resolution goes. I feel no need for more resolution than my 50mp A1, and my 61mp Leica M11 provide. In fact, I could be happier with a little less.
So that leaves only a few areas I am looking for improvement in.
First is usability. Any features that make it easier to produce top quality images is most welcome.
This would include possible improvements in customization, and possibly something like function macros where I link changes in configuration to a single button.
Better exposure metering, and controls.
Better white balance auto settings.
A big one would be improved light gathering, better Dynamic Range, lower noise like is being implemented in the new Sony dual layer sensors. Imagine a FF dual layer stacked sensor. That could be meaningful innovation.
Finally, better communication and image sharing direct from the camera.
p.8 #15 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
I ordered a Z8, I also have a Z6ii and two Z5s. I do mostly wildlife and like to have a body for each lens I use. My first body was a Z6, then I upgraded to the Z6ii when it came out, I really wanted to have dual memory cards. I was upset the Z6 didn’t have it, otherwise I’d still have it. I’m famous for taking my memory card out of the camera and putting it in the computer and forgetting about it and leaving it there then I get out again the next time and realize I don’t have a memory card.
I actually really like the Z5s, the smaller size and price is great, I bought one used and one refurb both for less than a $1000 each. That’s what gave me the idea to have a body for each lens to eliminate switching lenses. So I will keep a 14-24 on one Z5 and a 24-120 on the other. The only reason I have the Z6ii is I like to have a body with a grip for the 100-400mm.
The Z8 will be used with the 85/1.2 or other 1.2 primes. I need something with either lower ISO or a faster shutter for the sunny days when I want to use f/1.2 and it’s too much light for the other bodies. The Z8 has both lower ISO and a faster shutter, so I’ll use it mostly with primes I think. I didn’t want the big size of the Z9 or a different battery system to keep up and didn’t want the cost of the Z9 either. The Z8 really is more than I wanted to spend but I wanted at least one higher end body and the Z7ii didn’t have the ISO/shutter like the Z8. These 4 bodies will all take the same battery which is nice, only 1 battery system to manage.
The photos here were all shot with an iPhone, but giving you an idea of what the wildlife situation is here in North Dakota.
p.8 #17 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
snapsy wrote:
Matt Granger posted a buffer comparison to the Z9.
One could, in theory, get infinite buffer with two cards in the Z8 by shooting to the CFExpress card ("Overflow"), and periodically backing up the folder ("Copy Image(s)") / starting a new one during a break in the action. I've been experimenting with that on the Z9, with one high-speed card and one low-speed card.
p.8 #18 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
kaplah wrote:
One could, in theory, get infinite buffer with two cards in the Z8 by shooting to the CFExpress card ("Overflow"), and periodically backing up the folder ("Copy Image(s)") / starting a new one during a break in the action. I've been experimenting with that on the Z9, with one high-speed card and one low-speed card.
Excellent idea. Can you share the copy performance you've been seeing? Could you include the models of your cards so we can compare the copy performance to the theoretical performance of those particular cards.
p.8 #19 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
This was my plan as well. I bought a cheapo 256gb SD for backup.
kaplah wrote:
One could, in theory, get infinite buffer with two cards in the Z8 by shooting to the CFExpress card ("Overflow"), and periodically backing up the folder ("Copy Image(s)") / starting a new one during a break in the action. I've been experimenting with that on the Z9, with one high-speed card and one low-speed card.
p.8 #20 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
snapsy wrote:
Excellent idea. Can you share the copy performance you've been seeing? Could you include the models of your cards so we can compare the copy performance to the theoretical performance of those particular cards.
Fast card is an Angelbird 1TB AV Pro MK2 CFexpress 2.0 Type B. Slow card is a Delkin Devices 1TB POWER CFexpress Type B Memory Card.
Performance I would characterize as "good enough" - when I'm copying a folder from card 1 to card 2, it works fine from a workflow perfpective, at least in my so far limited experience.
Your question caused me to be curious, so I pressed Continous High @ 120fps for a few seconds on card 1, then copied it to card 2. 320 JPGs, 808MB, took about 15.5 seconds. I'm told that cards slow down as they fill, so this may go down as the day goes on.
