p.7 #1 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
You're right, I used the wrong term "stickiness" which you might take to mean total AF calculations being done, when I'm referring to "stickiness" as total object recognition and tracking accuracy and precision, not speed. You have to use the 6 year old A9 to get the speed on top of it.
May 12, 2023 at 10:59 AM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.7 #2 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
Everythingis1 wrote:
You literally use Sony cameras for Moving objects and are giving me crap for saying that Nikon is behind on its its AF object recognition and tracking? There are COUNTLESS comparisons for you to research if you want too, you don't have to take my word for it. The Sony A7R III with its current firmware has legitimately better subject stickiness than this Nikon is showing, not even to mention the A9. By the way, I've been using Nikon much longer than I have Sony, I don't know what's up with your obsessions with branding.
There are zero comparison with the Z8 and there are comparison by people like Steve Perry who shoots much in the way I do who come to the same conclusion that I have for my own shooting. Again I call bullish*t on what you say here compared to the Z9 or likely the Z8 which has a very similar AF system. It is up to you to provide evidence for your point of view. Until you do I will continue to see it as bullsh*t.
May 12, 2023 at 11:00 AM
Everythingis1 Offline • • [X]
p.7 #3 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
p.7 #4 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
I find it very hard to believe that you've seen a single comparison between the modern AF systems of the major brands, let alone actually compared them yourself. You're going to just have to prove it by linking a SINGLE reference to Nikon's AF being as good as Sony or Canon's. I'll wait as long as you need. How about this, for every reference you post, i'll post three that show the opposite. I can't believe you're so butt hurt about Sony and Canon having better AF algorithms.
p.7 #5 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
Everythingis1 wrote:
You literally use Sony cameras for Moving objects and are giving me crap for saying that Nikon is behind on its its AF object recognition and tracking? There are COUNTLESS comparisons for you to research if you want too, you don't have to take my word for it. The Sony A7R III with its current firmware has legitimately better subject stickiness than this Nikon is showing, not even to mention the A9. By the way, I've been using Nikon much longer than I have Sony, I don't know what's up with your obsessions with branding.
I believe Steve Spenser has made it clear in many posts that he favors some of Nikon's lenses over Sony's. However, he recognized that Nikon was well behind in camera bodies because he wanted the performance that stacked sensors offered. This is why he has been and is currently shooting Sony cameras.
When the Z9 was released he still favored the Sony bodies because of size and weight. Now that the Z8 is available he likely believes that Nikon offers the best solution for his goals.
Steve is very knowledgeable, and has demonstrated a very solid grasp of both what he wants out of a camera system, and which company offers what combination of bodies and lenses that best fit his goals.
I find nothing inconsistent in what he shoots now, what he wants to shoot, and his comments in this discussion.
As I posted, my personal experience with the A7RIII and the Z9 have produced very different conclusions for me than yours. You say there are countless comparisons available. I don't recall seeing even one. I am speaking of comparing the A7RIII to the Z9, not the A9, or A1. Can you provide links to such testing for us to review please? I am sincerely very interested in reading them.
p.7 #6 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
Everythingis1 wrote:
I find it very hard to believe that you've seen a single comparison between the modern AF systems of the major brands, let alone actually compared them yourself. You're going to just have to prove it by linking a SINGLE reference to Nikon's AF being as good as Sony or Canon's. I'll wait as long as you need. How about this, for every reference you post, i'll post three that show the opposite.
You do not have to post any. This will do
May 12, 2023 at 11:08 AM
Everythingis1 Offline • • [X]
p.7 #7 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
I'm looking for any videos I can that prove my experience to be invalid, but the closest I can find is people glossing over Nikon's AF system. Anything that compares them shows my experiences pretty much identically: Sony is the best of overall object recognition and knowing what you want, Canon is the best for birding and very similar to Sony for other uses, and Nikon has a decent and fast AF system but it handles a bit more like a legacy mirrorless system when it comes to understanding what most photographers want. I'm absolutely gob smacked that this in considered controversial in anyway. I think people take their purchases and the brands associated with them way to personally.
p.7 #8 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
bs kite wrote:
You do not have to post any. This will do
That video is very old. Steve Perry has says he has updated his opinion on this. He clearly favors the A1 AF system these days as he explicitly states in this two week old video. He talks about this through this interview, but is very clear starting around minute 49. He says somewhere in this video that the A1 is his go to system these days, and besides AF he has found it to be more reliable than the Z9.
But note he is talking about the A1. he would never even put the A7RIII in a luege where they should even be talked about as worthy of comparison.
p.7 #9 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
Everythingis1 wrote:
I'm looking for any videos I can that prove my experience to be invalid, but the closest I can find is people glossing over Nikon's AF system. Anything that compares them shows my experiences pretty much identically: Sony is the best of overall object recognition and knowing what you want, Canon is the best for birding and very similar to Sony for other uses, and Nikon has a decent and fast AF system but it handles a bit more like a legacy mirrorless system when it comes to understanding what most photographers want. I'm absolutely gob smacked that this in considered controversial in anyway. I think people take their purchases and the brands associated with them way to personally. ...Show more →
You're not looking for anything but trouble.
You're trolling and you know nothing at all....Zero!
p.7 #10 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
Everythingis1 wrote:
I'm looking for any videos I can that prove my experience to be invalid, but the closest I can find is people glossing over Nikon's AF system. Anything that compares them shows my experiences pretty much identically: Sony is the best of overall object recognition and knowing what you want, Canon is the best for birding and very similar to Sony for other uses, and Nikon has a decent and fast AF system but it handles a bit more like a legacy mirrorless system when it comes to understanding what most photographers want. I'm absolutely gob smacked that this in considered controversial in anyway. I think people take their purchases and the brands associated with them way to personally. ...Show more →
People are not objecting to a comparison between Sony A1/A9 and Nikon Z9/Z8 AF systems. That has been logically argued from both sides. I have many friends that are great photographers who I have shot side by side with that find the Z9 AF system superior. These are honest, sincere , people with skills that must be respected. I strongly disagree with them, but I cannot say they are wrong from their perspective.
We are (including us Sony shooters) objecting to your statement that the A7RIII AF is better than the Z9. I find this assertation ludicrous at a minimum. Don't mistake specific model comparisons with brand comparisons.
May 12, 2023 at 11:22 AM
Everythingis1 Offline • • [X]
p.7 #11 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
I don't know what to tell you, my hit rate percentage is higher on my A7R III when it comes to portraits than my Z9 (generally f1.4-2.0, natural light mostly). Of course I can get more total usable images out of the Z9, but that requires serious FPS overkill for portraiture. I used it as an example of how important the object recognition algo's are, but everyone was chomping at the bit to be upset by my positing that its' other improvements might be made less appealing in the face of an AF system that still needs to catch up. Showing that areas of the Z9's (and likely Z8's) autofocus are behind 6 year old cameras was the entire point of my comment, but the fingers go in the ears and the hands over the eyes because a brand name is attached to it.
I'm sorry that Nikon's AF isn't up to par, but I'm not sorry for saying it out loud. I need every one to talk about it so they take it seriously and I can finally go back to only using Nikon.
I have been using multiple systems for 9 years now literally just because of Nikon AF problems. First on DSLR and then on mirrorless.
1bwana1 wrote:
People are not objecting to a comparison between Sony A1/A9 and Nikon Z9/Z8 AF systems. That has been logically argued from both sides. I have many friends that are great photographers who I have shot side by side with that find the Z9 AF system superior. These are honest, sincere , people with skills that must be respected. I strongly disagree with them, but I cannot say they are wrong from their perspective.
We are (including us Sony shooters) objecting to your statement that the A7RIII AF is better than the Z9. I find this assertation ludicrous at a minimum. Don't mistake specific model comparisons with brand comparisons....Show more →
p.7 #12 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
Everythingis1 wrote:
I don't know what to tell you, my hit rate percentage is higher on my A7R III when it comes to portraits than my Z9 (generally f1.4-2.0, natural light mostly). Of course I can get more total usable images out of the Z9, but that requires serious FPS overkill for portraiture. I used it as an example of how important the object recognition algo's are, but everyone was chomping at the bit to be upset by my positing that its' other improvements might be made less appealing in the face of an AF system that still needs to catch up. Showing that areas of the Z9's (and likely Z8's) autofocus are behind 6 year old cameras was the entire point of my comment, but the fingers go in the ears and the hands over the eyes because a brand name is attached to it.
I'm sorry that Nikon's AF isn't up to par, but I'm not sorry for saying it out loud. I need every one to talk about it so they take it seriously and I can finally go back to only using Nikon.
I have been using multiple systems for 9 years now literally just because of Nikon AF problems. First on DSLR and then on mirrorless.
Am I to understand that what you have been speaking about is specifically about Eye-AF on people? That is an entirely different subject than I have been understanding you to be saying. Although I haven't seen specific tests on this between the A7RIII and the Z9, it is more believable as a possibility than the more general statements you have been making. I do find that some other models in the Sony line, like the A7RV, are much much better at Eye-AF than the Nikon line including the Z9. But, my personal experience with these two cameras has still shown the Z9 to be better than the A7RIII, and the shooting experience much better with the Z9.
But keep in mind that Nikon is saying that one of the software improvements it has made in the Z8 is related to human face recognition, tracking, and Eye-AF. Starting with locking on at further distances. AS far away as facing comprising only 3% of the frame. I don't know that we have enough information on this yet to make conclusions. This may be true of a number of software improvements that are not being talked about yet with so many other things about the Z8 getting all the attention. Best to keep an open mind about such things.
p.7 #13 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
Everythingis1 wrote:
I don't know what to tell you, my hit rate percentage is higher on my A7R III when it comes to portraits than my Z9 (generally f1.4-2.0, natural light mostly). Of course I can get more total usable images out of the Z9, but that requires serious FPS overkill for portraiture. I used it as an example of how important the object recognition algo's are, but everyone was chomping at the bit to be upset by my positing that its' other improvements might be made less appealing in the face of an AF system that still needs to catch up. Showing that areas of the Z9's (and likely Z8's) autofocus are behind 6 year old cameras was the entire point of my comment, but the fingers go in the ears and the hands over the eyes because a brand name is attached to it.
I'm sorry that Nikon's AF isn't up to par, but I'm not sorry for saying it out loud. I need every one to talk about it so they take it seriously and I can finally go back to only using Nikon.
I have been using multiple systems for 9 years now literally just because of Nikon AF problems. First on DSLR and then on mirrorless.
I'm not going to bother writing a long winded reply restating what everyone else has already told you (you are clearly wrong), but on the 1% chance that you aren't trolling, if your A7RIII (which is notoriously average in the AF department) is outperforming your Z9 AF, you either have a defective Z9, a defective lens, or a critical setting wrong. You may want to look into that, maybe start with a factory reset.
When you're the only one who is having problems, and it goes against every (reputable) professional review and every other user's experience, the problem is behind the camera. Also, the fact that you feel you are doing some sort of public service by spreading misinformation based on a single sample size does not help your credibility.
May 12, 2023 at 12:12 PM
Everythingis1 Offline • • [X]
p.7 #14 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
I didn't say I say I was having problems with the Z9, and I didn't say that the A7R III was a better shooting experience (it's not nearly as nice as Nikon's shooting experience). However my A7R III has way less issues loosing track of someone's face during a portrait shoot. Is that being exaggerated by just how many more pictures I'm taking on the Z9? Yeah, it is, but percentage wise it is legitimately not nearly as high. The Z9 AF is VERY GOOD, it is just also literally worse at some things than several other models of much older cameras that are using objectively worse and less capable hardware.
CanadaMark wrote:
I'm not going to bother writing a long winded reply restating what everyone else has already told you (you are clearly wrong), but on the 1% chance that you aren't trolling, if your A7RIII (which is notoriously average in the AF department) is outperforming your Z9 AF, you either have a defective Z9, a defective lens, or a critical setting wrong. You may want to look into that, maybe start with a factory reset.
When you're the only one who is having problems, and it goes against every (reputable) professional review and every other user's experience, the problem is behind the camera. Also, the fact that you feel you are doing some sort of public service by spreading misinformation based on a single sample size does not help your credibility....Show more →
p.7 #15 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
Everythingis1 wrote:
I didn't say I say I was having problems with the Z9, and I didn't say that the A7R III was a better shooting experience (it's not nearly as nice as Nikon's shooting experience). However my A7R III has way less issues loosing track of someone's face during a portrait shoot. Is that being exaggerated by just how many more pictures I'm taking on the Z9? Yeah, it is, but percentage wise it is legitimately not nearly as high. The Z9 AF is VERY GOOD, it is just also literally worse at some things than several other models of much older cameras that are using objectively worse and less capable hardware.
Of the few things the Z9 is bad at, portrait shooting is not one of them. You MUST be using your Z9 incorrectly if you think it's less reliable than the A7Riii. You won't find a single person to agree with your assessment here.
May 12, 2023 at 12:36 PM
Everythingis1 Offline • • [X]
p.7 #16 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
Yes, I am specifically talking about subject/object recognition and tracking using A.I. neural net imaging models. The other differences in AF have become mostly irrelevant over the last few years (assuming OSPDAF).
May 12, 2023 at 12:38 PM
Everythingis1 Offline • • [X]
p.7 #17 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
Why do you insist on putting words in my mouth? Where did I say the the Z9 is bad at portraits? It's literally a better portrait camera than the A7R III. Why do you insist on making up things to be offended about? You're off the rails mate.
p.7 #19 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
Everythingis1 wrote:
You're going to just have to prove it by linking a SINGLE reference to Nikon's AF being as good as Sony or Canon's. I'll wait as long as you need.
[...]
How about this, for every reference you post, i'll post three that show the opposite.
p.7 #20 · Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
RoamingScott wrote:
Nuttier than squirrel turds...
One moment it's "my A7R III has way less issues loosing track of someone's face during a portrait shoot.", the next it's "Where did I say the the Z9 is bad at portraits?"
Hence I blocked him/her.
But this thread imploded quickly, and a) that makes it much less useful than it could be and b) make me wonder what the standards for moderation are.
After all, the posters' demeanor is clearly under the umbrella of "problematic (harassment, fighting, or rude) posts", as well as nutty.
