Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Post-processing & Printing | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3              17              19       end
  

Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)

  
 
mcbroomf
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.18 #1 · p.18 #1 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)


I'll post these 2 results later today in the table I've been updating.


Aug 31, 2023 at 02:52 AM
jhapeman
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.18 #2 · p.18 #2 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)


Kaj E wrote:
As this old thread has been revived, I decided to post my new laptop result. My Dell Precision 7780 with a Nvidia RTX 4000 Ada generation laptop GPU does the reference A7RIV file AI denoising in ACR in 16 sec after update to a new driver. 18 sec before the driver update.


Which 4000 version? How much video memory? It will also be interesting to see how it does on battery vs. plugged in. I have a Lenovo with the older 3070 Ti and it wasn't a great performer, and really took a hit when on battery. The Ada versions are supposed to be quite improved.



Aug 31, 2023 at 08:53 AM
Kaj E
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.18 #3 · p.18 #3 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)


jhapeman wrote:
Which 4000 version? How much video memory? It will also be interesting to see how it does on battery vs. plugged in. I have a Lenovo with the older 3070 Ti and it wasn't a great performer, and really took a hit when on battery. The Ada versions are supposed to be quite improved.


It is RTX 4000 Ada Generation Mobile GPU. That is the official name, it is a professional laptop GPU, corresponds to the RTX 4080 laptop GPU (or close to the 4070Ti desktop GPU). The base power for the RTX 4000 laptop GPU in the Dell Precision 7780 is 115 W plus boost. It has 12 GB video memory and 232 tensor cores.



Aug 31, 2023 at 09:23 AM
jhapeman
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.18 #4 · p.18 #4 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)


Kaj E wrote:
It is RTX 4000 Ada Generation Mobile GPU. That is the official name, it is a professional laptop GPU, corresponds to the RTX 4080 laptop GPU (or close to the 4070Ti desktop GPU). The base power for the RTX 4000 laptop GPU in the Dell Precision 7780 is 115 W plus boost. It has 12 GB video memory and 232 tensor cores..


OK, I dug it up, this is the new version of the old RTX 4000; they're the workstation versions of the regular desktop series. Good beefy GPUs.



Aug 31, 2023 at 09:30 AM
Kaj E
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.18 #5 · p.18 #5 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)


Yes, the specs are close to the previous generation A RTX 5500 (then top of the line), which did the AI denoising of the reference file in ACR on 20-21 sec.

So quite a good improvement with the new generation RTX 4000 (not top of the line).

https://nvdam.widen.net/s/dmdqnnwcmk/proviz-mobile-linecard-update-2653183



Aug 31, 2023 at 10:00 AM
exdeejjjaaaa
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.18 #6 · p.18 #6 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)


Kaj E wrote:
It is RTX 4000 Ada Generation Mobile GPU. That is the official name, it is a professional laptop GPU, corresponds to the RTX 4080 laptop GPU (or close to the 4070Ti desktop GPU).


it is not "close to the 4070Ti desktop GPU" in that matter because = "My Dell Precision 7780 with a Nvidia RTX 4000 Ada generation laptop GPU does the reference A7RIV file AI denoising in ACR in 16 sec after update to a new driver. 18 sec before the driver update."

as I noted earlier my desktop RTX 4070 ( not Ti ) does A7R4 raws in 15 seconds per raw in ACR ( multiple runs on 40 raw files, averaged )... so "RTX 4000 Ada Generation Mobile GPU" is plain RTX 4070 class ACR-AI-NR-wise ... which is not bad at all, but that's about it





Aug 31, 2023 at 02:50 PM
jhapeman
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.18 #7 · p.18 #7 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)


exdeejjjaaaa wrote:
it is not "close to the 4070Ti desktop GPU" in that matter because = "My Dell Precision 7780 with a Nvidia RTX 4000 Ada generation laptop GPU does the reference A7RIV file AI denoising in ACR in 16 sec after update to a new driver. 18 sec before the driver update."

as I noted earlier my desktop RTX 4070 ( not Ti ) does A7R4 raws in 15 seconds per raw in ACR ( multiple runs on 40 raw files, averaged )... so "RTX 4000 Ada Generation Mobile GPU" is plain RTX 4070 class ACR-AI-NR-wise ... which is not bad at
...Show more

Yes, and we established in a different thread that your 4070 is an overclocked version, which is why it's about 30% faster than everyone else's stock 4070 in testing with LR AI DeNoise. The RTX 4000 Ada in his laptop is not overclocked, but has more CUDA cores and tensor cores, which Adobe leverages, which is why it outperforms a non-overclocked desktop 4070.



Aug 31, 2023 at 03:03 PM
mcbroomf
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.18 #8 · p.18 #8 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)


232 Tensor cores. It's doing pretty well for that #

Updated file 1-16-2024 : Added Super variations for 4070, 4070 Ti and 4080

LRC by Mike Broomfield, on Flickr

Edited on Jan 16, 2024 at 12:09 PM · View previous versions



Aug 31, 2023 at 03:17 PM
CanadaMark
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.18 #9 · p.18 #9 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)


jhapeman wrote:
Yes, and we established in a different thread that your 4070 is an overclocked version, which is why it's about 30% faster than everyone else's stock 4070 in testing with LR AI DeNoise. The RTX 4000 Ada in his laptop is not overclocked, but has more CUDA cores and tensor cores, which Adobe leverages, which is why it outperforms a non-overclocked desktop 4070.


There is no way anyone is getting 30% more out of a 4070 (desktop or laptop) with an overclock - something else is going on there, more likely a wattage difference. Overclocking gains on a 4070 are more like 5-8%.

Nvidia 3000/4000 series GPUs are extremely sensitive to wattage and especially with laptops, that varies wildly (over double depending on the application).



Aug 31, 2023 at 04:00 PM
jhapeman
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.18 #10 · p.18 #10 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)


CanadaMark wrote:
There is no way anyone is getting 30% more out of a 4070 (desktop or laptop) with an overclock - something else is going on there, more likely a wattage difference. Overclocking gains on a 4070 are more like 5-8%.

Nvidia 3000/4000 series GPUs are extremely sensitive to wattage and especially with laptops, that varies wildly (over double depending on the application).


Well yes, I agree, but he's been less than forthcoming. He was going on and on in another thread about how the 4070 is so fast, when multiple other people all have posted very consistent times that are much slower than his, so its not entirely clear what's going on, but his numbers don't add up. It only came out after a ton of digging that he's using an overclocked card, but he claimed it "wasn't much" and later claimed his numbers were the same unclocked.

And you are right--as a test I just overclocked my 4090 and it was a whopping 10% faster--9s instead of 10s.



Aug 31, 2023 at 04:51 PM
 


Search in Used Dept. 

dclark
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.18 #11 · p.18 #11 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)


jhapeman wrote:
I just recently got an Nvidia RTX 4090 GPU for another 3D rendering box I was building for my business and ran some tests to compare. It's the fastest to date, at just under 11s to process the standard A7RIV image used for the other computers. That compares to 14s for an RTX 4080, just over 13s for an M2 Ultra with 76 GPU cores and 20s for an RTX 4070 or an M1 Ultra with 64 GPU cores.

Related to this, the PC I built was specced almost identically to an M2 Ultra. I don't use the cheapest parts
...Show more

Looking at the Mac Studio M2 Ultra you describe on the Apple Store site it's priced at $5999. That seems to mean your home built PC parts priced out at $5700. It would be interesting to see the parts list you used. Sounds like you are using the best parts available. Thanks in advance for the info.



Aug 31, 2023 at 08:20 PM
jhapeman
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.18 #12 · p.18 #12 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)


dclark wrote:
Looking at the Mac Studio M2 Ultra you describe on the Apple Store site it's priced at $5999. That seems to mean your home built PC parts priced out at $5700. It would be interesting to see the parts list you used. Sounds like you are using the best parts available. Thanks in advance for the info.


No, you don't need the 76 GPU cores in the M2 to get there; that's my daily driver but the 60-GPU core model turns in nearly identical speeds on LR DeNoise. So a 60-core GPU Studio with 64GB of RAM and a 4TB SSD is $4999. The PC I built used the following: Asus ProArt Creator Z790 motherboard, Intel Core i9 13900K processor, 64GB of Kingston DDR5 RAM (Intel XMP certified), 4TB Sabrent TLC NAND PCIe 4 SSD, Nvidia 4090 RTX Founders Edition (list is $1600 but they are selling for $2K IF you can even find one), EVGA Platinum 1300W power supply, Fractal Design Meshify 2 case, Windows 11 Pro.

All in that PC actually cost me $10 more than the Studio I described in the previous paragraph when all was said and done. My original cost estimate was wrong as I forgot to include the memory in the total. All parts came from NewEgg except the GPU which I had to get elsewhere. It's still almost impossible to find the FE RTX 4090's. Even if I had gotten an OEM like an ASUS 4090, it would have only saved a a couple hundred dollars.

I've done this time and again in the last 20 years. For all of the talk about Apple being expensive, if you buy *similar* quality PC gear they are very comparable in price, and have been for ages. Yes, I could use cheaper parts but I have always preferred to spend more for the quality that will be most stable and last the longest, and when things go wrong, have good support.

BTW, if you're find with the Windows ecosystem, the box I built is a terrific machine. Its primary use in our office is 3D rendering where the Nvidia cards just are king and nothing can touch them (yet). But for things like Lightroom, the diminishing returns just drive up the cost. That is one area where you can build a PC that can slip in between the cracks of what Apple offers. If you drop down to a 4080 series card that matches the Ultra in performance but saves you $500.

I just really hate using Windows, even more so after a 25+ year in IT consulting and as an enterprise CIO/CTO. Windows 11 is even more annoying that Windows 10 and its amazing that if you poke around a little you'll still find settings boxes and dialogs that haven't changed since the Windows 2000 days. So much more time fiddling with the OS and drivers and updates etc. that just get in the way of me getting stuff done. Even with this PC, the cost doesn't include my day spent building it, and then you have a box that's just not as beautifully designed as the Studio, is louder and just sucks down power. In an office in our building that power use is noticeable--the room with the rendering PC in it is always several degrees hotter than any other office. That's nice in the winter...not so much in the summer and honestly, it's just wasteful.




Aug 31, 2023 at 09:04 PM
exdeejjjaaaa
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.18 #13 · p.18 #13 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)


jhapeman wrote:
Yes, and we established in a different thread that your 4070 is an overclocked version, which is why it's about 30% faster than everyone else's stock 4070 in testing with LR AI DeNoise. The RTX 4000 Ada in his laptop is not overclocked, but has more CUDA cores and tensor cores, which Adobe leverages, which is why it outperforms a non-overclocked desktop 4070.


does not matter - "Nvidia RTX 4000 Ada generation laptop GPU" is simply not in the class of 4070Ti Desktop GPU.. plain and simple... live w/ that...



Sep 02, 2023 at 09:16 AM
Kaj E
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.18 #14 · p.18 #14 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)


In reply to exdeejjjaaaa

There is of course a difference between a desktop GPU and laptop GPU due to the TDP. But for instance the render configuration and memory are quite close between the RTX 4000 Mobile and the 4070Ti.

RTX 4000 Mobile: https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/rtx-4000-mobile-ada-generation.c4096

Also note that the RTX 4000 in the Dell Precision 7780 i have has higher TDP and clock speeds than the defaults referenced in the TechPowerUp link above: TDP 115 W, base clock 1650 MHz and boost clock 2115 MHz.

Compare the above to the RTX 4070 Ti: https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-rtx-4070-ti.c3950 .

The topic of this thread, AI denoising in Lightroom Classic and Adobe camera Raw, is dependent on tensor cores. The amount of tensor cores are very close between the RTX 4000 Mobile and RTX 4070 Ti (232 vs, 240). The impact of this can be see in mcbroomf's latest table above. The RTX 4000 Mobile there actually beats the 4070 Ti, apparently due to a newer GPU driver used for the RTX 4000 Mobile. The time for the RTX 4000 Mobile was a identical (18 sec) to the time shown for the 4070 Ti with an older driver.



Sep 02, 2023 at 09:36 PM
Erictator
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.18 #15 · p.18 #15 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)


I know this is old news and all bets were off when things changed and you could no longer do apples to apples tests, but I thought I would at least mention that I ended up going from an old Nvidia 1050Ti to an Asus Dual 4070 OC, and the difference is as expected from the chart, actually a tiny bit better than the chart predicted. Probably because of the overclocking, etc.

Thanks for all your efforts, this thread was a useful resource even though it wasn't an exact science, all the input definitely helped point me in the right direction. I'm a happy camper.

Eric



May 06, 2024 at 10:59 AM
mcbroomf
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.18 #16 · p.18 #16 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)


Good to hear Eric, thanks for posting and glad you found the table useful.

The difference may also be influenced by different LR revs which is why I no longer update it. The chart was put together with 12.4. What version of LR were you using? Current (13.2)?



May 06, 2024 at 11:49 AM
Erictator
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.18 #17 · p.18 #17 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)


mcbroomf wrote:
Good to hear Eric, thanks for posting and glad you found the table useful.

The difference may also be influenced by different LR revs which is why I no longer update it. The chart was put together with 12.4. What version of LR were you using? Current (13.2)?


Not a fan of LR (I hate that if you want to manually move some files around, it has to re-scan your drive, which can take a whole day with 3TB of pictures... plus I like to do my own filing), but I am using ACR 16.2.1.1767 which had the same issue with AI Denoising speeds, so the chart carries over. I'm on subscription, so yeah, latest PS 25.7 and also have the new BETA loaded of PS 25.9. It was painfully slow before, as you would expect, and I'm getting stuff done in 15sec or less for denoise on my A7RV files, and over-all much faster everywhere in the software. Especially when I open like 100 Raw files at once in ACR, do select-all, and apply the same basic edits to all, it's nearly instantaneous, whereas before I could watch it cycle down the list, heh.

Eric



May 06, 2024 at 12:22 PM
mcbroomf
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.18 #18 · p.18 #18 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)


Erictator wrote:
... I'm getting stuff done in 15sec or less for denoise on my A7RV files, and over-all much faster everywhere in the software. ...

Eric





May 06, 2024 at 12:35 PM
Zenon Char
Online
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.18 #19 · p.18 #19 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)


Erictator wrote:
Not a fan of LR (I hate that if you want to manually move some files around, it has to re-scan your drive, which can take a whole day with 3TB of pictures... plus I like to do my own filing), but I am using ACR 16.2.1.1767 which had the same issue with AI Denoising speeds, so the chart carries over. I'm on subscription, so yeah, latest PS 25.7 and also have the new BETA loaded of PS 25.9. It was painfully slow before, as you would expect, and I'm getting stuff done in 15sec or less for denoise on
...Show more

For the benefit of other readers I'm curious about a few things. What you mean about re-scanning files? When you import new files LrC reads the metadata so it can add it to (build) the catalogue, which is just a database. It also builds previews and that can take time. You can choose the Embedded & Sidecar option that lets you cull while the previews build.

My LR folder is on the desktop in Adobe's default - Pictures. That folder contains the Catalogue, Previews and everything else. All my files are stored on an external drive. After a shoot I get the files into a folder that is on my desktop. I import that folder. Once the Previews are built. I leave that folder on my desktop and begin editing. I do this because it is an SSD and the fastest drive. Once done I drag those files to the ED. I've been doing this since 2011 and have never seen LrC reimport, rescan or do anything else. LrC just needs to know where the files are located. Even if my files are on an ED they still open quickly because I keep the previews around forever.

To keep it simple I drag my files from the desktop to the ED using LrC. This way it knows where I moved them and I don't have to remember to tell LrC where I moved then. It still uses the same catalogue and previews that are on the desktop or SSD. That move is as fast as using your OS. I have moved a mass amount of files when replacing a drive and that does take time. For that I use the OS and after I go back into LrC which will show an exclamation mark. I just point it to the root folder at the new location/drive and all is fine. I do this because it is recommended for mass file moves. Again I've never seen any re-scanned or any previews rebuilt. It still uses the original ones wherever your LR folder is located. I've only done that a few times. Any other time I use LrC.

Question about your own filing. You do that either way. LrC does not create its own file system. It uses the existing one, wherever that is located. I can open LrC, the OS, Canon's DPP, DXO, C1 or anything else and it will show the same file structure. My folder structure is by year. In January using LrC I added 2024 and that showed up in the OS file structure.

The only difference between LrC and others is because it's a parametric developer it needs to know where your located and you have complete control over that. You can tell LrC where to import from and where to import to. Again it does not create a duplicate set of files or its own file structure. So the only pain is moving folders/files is using LrC. You can use or OS to do this but then you have to remember to inform LrC about it. I have been moving folders around using LrC for 10 years and never worry about anything. Anything I move something it shows in my OS folder structure or any other developer I open.

You probably don't keep your previews so if you do move 3TB worth of files but that shouldn't effect anything. You are not re-importing so LrC does not have to build previews. The files metadata is always still in the catalogue database. It only has to build previews for any older folders/files you actually open that do not have the previews stored somewhere.



May 07, 2024 at 09:43 AM
Erictator
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.18 #20 · p.18 #20 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)


Zenon Char wrote:
For the benefit of other readers I'm curious about a few things. What you mean about re-scanning files? When you import new files LrC reads the metadata so it can add it to (build) the catalogue, which is just a database. It also builds previews and that can take time. You can choose the Embedded & Sidecar option that lets you cull while the previews build.

My LR folder is on the desktop in Adobe's default - Pictures. That folder contains the Catalogue, Previews and everything else. All my files are stored on an external drive. After a shoot I
...Show more

Part of it may be my own fault and initial expectations that got off on the wrong foot years ago... I cut my teeth on Photoshop early days at work. It was expensive back then, and at the time when I first was aware of LR years ago, it was pitched to me as an inexpensive alternative to PS, like "PS Lite" as photo editing software. When I loaded it for home use, it became readily apparent that it was definitely NOT "PS Lite" and that it was primarily an organizer with some editing capabilities.

Fast forward to modern times, I received a free license for LRC with my new Adobe subscription that I bought mainly for PS. So, on a lark, I re-installed LRC to see what's changed.

To be honest, I never bothered to fully flesh it out to see "why" or "what" was happening that triggered a re-scan of my picture drive after I moved some files around via the OS, because I stopped it before it finished, and I yanked it off the system...

...But what I do know, is that after initially installing LR Classic this time around, it took a full day to catalog everything, or whatever it does, and when it did, there was an additional several gigabytes! of index files? and previews? or something? it had created, I dunno, and the work flow just still seemed so foreign to the way I think. It was slow and clunky to me so it was already on probation as far as I was concerned, heh heh. I prefer to rely on the OS logical folder naming conventions and a sort by date function and finding my newest or outstanding unfinished work that way. The tree view and thumbnails just doesn't do it for me.

So, in the end, it sounds like you have way more experience with LR and LRC than I do, and probably can make it sing and dance and it sounds like you really like it. Awesome! Happy for you! It's probably not fair of me to discount it on forums, so I'll watch my rhetoric in the future, but I never wanted an organizer in the first place, so I wasn't inclined to put forth much effort into making it work for me.

Eric




May 07, 2024 at 11:11 AM
1       2       3              17              19       end






FM Forums | Post-processing & Printing | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3              17              19       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username       Or Reset password



This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.