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New Leica Summilux-M 50 f/1.4 ASPH lens and M11 Monochrome

  
 
jshcrlsn
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · New Leica Summilux-M 50 f/1.4 ASPH lens and M11 Monochrome


Looks to me like they optimized the same lens formula to perform better on center at the cost of the mid zone. If you study the MTF carefully you can see that the first version has better mid zone resolve...all be it minor. The aesthetic changes are likely do to needing a different body design to accommodate the closer focus mech and new hood. The Summilux is definitely a great all around lens. However, I think in the age of modern ISO performance of digital sensors the emphasis for a lens such as this is for subject isolation on center from 1.4 to 2.8 leaving flat field performance to their other offerings.

I love this lens!



Apr 12, 2023 at 01:23 PM
rscheffler
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · New Leica Summilux-M 50 f/1.4 ASPH lens and M11 Monochrome


hiepphotog wrote:
I also wonder if they designed the field curvature to fit into the intention of rapid focus falloff as well. Personally, I was surprised that Karbe kept that wavy characteristics. I guess it's not too unexpected when they kept the same retail price.


Do you mean kept the wavy characteristics in the newly revised version? If so, it probably wasn’t Karbe’s decision because he’s no longer head lens designer. IIRC he’s stepped down into an advisory role at Leica.

Maybe the thinking is shorter MFD and revised aperture mechanism for a rounder opening through the wider aperture range (I assume), are enough to justify a refresh. A real optical redesign from scratch might then be the next version. But hopefully not in 15 years.



Apr 13, 2023 at 12:33 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · New Leica Summilux-M 50 f/1.4 ASPH lens and M11 Monochrome


rscheffler wrote:
Do you mean kept the wavy characteristics in the newly revised version? If so, it probably wasn’t Karbe’s decision because he’s no longer head lens designer. IIRC he’s stepped down into an advisory role at Leica.

Maybe the thinking is shorter MFD and revised aperture mechanism for a rounder opening through the wider aperture range (I assume), are enough to justify a refresh. A real optical redesign from scratch might then be the next version. But hopefully not in 15 years.


The concern regarding the new version is that the difference in performance between the center and mid is now even more significant. This implies that it may be even more noticeable in actual images.



Apr 13, 2023 at 12:43 AM
RexGig0
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · New Leica Summilux-M 50 f/1.4 ASPH lens and M11 Monochrome


The major reason I would be interested in the Summilux ASPH II would be mitigation of the “ninja star” bokeh, that appears at some aperture settings, with the currently-available ASPH lens. But, alas, the immediate, externally-visible trade-off is the lack of any ribs/grooves/flutes on the focusing ring. The most-familiar version of the Summilux ASPH has both a tab, and ribs on the focusing ring.

I tend to grip focusing ring, itself, rather than use the tab, unless I am distance/scale focusing, by “feel,” with a 28mm Elmarit-M or 24mm Elmar-M. Notably, the tab positions on these various Leica lenses do not correspond to the same distances, which makes it difficult to program one’s brain to reflexively recall the tab’s felt position for various distances, with multiple lenses.

Macro/close-range photography was the dominant reason that I started shooting seriously with interchangeable-lens cameras, in 2009/2010. I, for one, cannot imagine why a lens that is being promoted for its closer-focusing capability, and has a quite long focusing throw, would not have some kind of ribs, grooves, flutes, knurling, or some other texturing, on the focusing ring. I can only reckon that Leica has chosen style, over function.

It is not that I plan to use a 50mm M lens for macro and close-range photography. There are 90mm and 75mm* M lenses better-suited for that, and Canon EOS EF remains my system for truly serious macro.

To be clear, this is not meant to “sound’ like a rant. This is a beautiful April day. I am still learning to effectively use my APO Summicron-M 75mm ASPH, which nicely complements my Summilux-M 50mm ASPH. (The APO 75 is more challenging to rangefinder focus, and it has its own flaring characteristics, which take time to learn to use artistically.) I consider myself fiercely loyal to my Summilux, and was not thinking about trading it for this Version II. (Yes, I would, actually, consider eventually owning two versions of 50mm Summilux.)

*The APO Summicron-M 75mm ASPH has a quite good magnification ratio, at MFD, and, of course, has a ribbed focusing ring, with no tab. I should try it with the Macro-Adapter-M. Life is good.

Edited on Apr 13, 2023 at 09:48 AM · View previous versions



Apr 13, 2023 at 09:40 AM
highdesertmesa
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · New Leica Summilux-M 50 f/1.4 ASPH lens and M11 Monochrome


Fred Miranda wrote:
The concern regarding the new version is that the difference in performance between the center and mid is now even more significant. This implies that it may be even more noticeable in actual images.


Midzone at infinity looked fine to me on the 50 Lux, but the corners could have used some help, which it seems they will not get. But the review from Slack looks pretty good:

https://www.slack.co.uk/leica_50_2023.html

///

The M11M – the tonality is on another level (or maybe it's been too long since I used the M10M):

https://www.slack.co.uk/leica-m11-monochrom.html

There were a few images that have edge artifacts around detailed areas, but that looks like over-processing.



Apr 13, 2023 at 09:43 AM
highdesertmesa
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · New Leica Summilux-M 50 f/1.4 ASPH lens and M11 Monochrome


RexGig0 wrote:
The major reason I would be interested in the Summilux ASPH II would be mitigation of the “ninja star” bokeh, that appears at some aperture settings, with the currently-available ASPH lens. But, alas, the immediate, externally-visible trade-off is the lack of any ribs/grooves/flutes on the focusing ring. The most-familiar version of the Summilux ASPH has both a tab, and ribs on the focusing ring.

I tend to grip focusing ring, itself, rather than use the tab, unless I am distance/scale focusing, by “feel,” with a 28mm Elmarit-M or 24mm Elmar-M. Notably, the tab positions on these various Leica lenses do
...Show more

I'm surprised they didn't give the new close-focus 35 and 50 Lux the same focus ring ribbing from the 35 APO-M.



Apr 13, 2023 at 09:47 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · New Leica Summilux-M 50 f/1.4 ASPH lens and M11 Monochrome


highdesertmesa wrote:
Midzone at infinity looked fine to me on the 50 Lux, but the corners could have used some help, which it seems they will not get. But the review from Slack looks pretty good:

https://www.slack.co.uk/leica_50_2023.html

///

The M11M – the tonality is on another level (or maybe it's been too long since I used the M10M):

https://www.slack.co.uk/leica-m11-monochrom.html

There were a few images that have edge artifacts around detailed areas, but that looks like over-processing.


After running some tests, I have noticed a decrease in resolution in the middle area when using the Leica 50/1.4 Lux lens, particularly when focused at infinity distance. I have compared this lens with the Voigt 50/2 APO, and the results can be seen in the following link:
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1707236/0#15636310

When focused on the corner area, the corners actually perform well at infinity. However, when focused on the center, the very corners appear soft due to field curvature. As mentioned in this post, the lens has outwards field curvature, but the very corners possess an even steeper FC shape, as illustrated here:
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1707236/4#15845549

According to the MTF graph from Leica, the new Leica 50/1.4 Lux II lens will display a more noticeable variance from center to mid-field. Nevertheless, its overall performance remains commendable, as many 50mm lenses exhibit such a dip in the middle, including the Voigtlander 50/1.2 Nokton, as shown in this link:
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1707236/0#15635822



Apr 13, 2023 at 09:53 AM
LBJ2
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · New Leica Summilux-M 50 f/1.4 ASPH lens and M11 Monochrome


https://www.slack.co.uk/leica_50_2023.html








Apr 13, 2023 at 09:57 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · New Leica Summilux-M 50 f/1.4 ASPH lens and M11 Monochrome


It's now official:

New Leica Summilux-M 50 f/1.4 ASPH. (11728)
https://leica-camera.com/en-US/photography/lenses/m/leica-summilux-m-50-f14-asph-black

Leica M11-M:
https://leica-camera.com/en-US/stories/fatma-almosa-leica-m11-monochrom-every-nuance-of-black-and-white

Here is Jonathan's Leica 50/1.4 Lux review:
https://www.slack.co.uk/leica_50_2023.html

---------

While I appreciate the weight reduction, I am not fond of the textured paint on aluminum used in the M11 and M11-M. Unlike the black-chrome finish, the texture may not age as gracefully as the brass top and feels less smooth to the touch. I wonder if anyone else shares this viewpoint.

Moreover, since the M11 and M11-M lack IBIS, the reduced weight may make it more difficult to handhold the camera steadily, especially when compared to the brass models such as the M11 Silver and M10 series.



Apr 13, 2023 at 09:58 AM
RexGig0
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · New Leica Summilux-M 50 f/1.4 ASPH lens and M11 Monochrome


Well, Jonathan Slack’s article confirms that the close-focus capability of the 50 ASPH II, at 0.45 meter, is not something that I would need, because my APO 75 ASPH has a magnification ratio that is so close to the same, at 0.7 meter. Plus, the APO 75mm has ribs, and no tab, on the focusing ring. This part, alone, is good news for my bank account, and helps “justify” my decision to acquire my 75 APO, last year. (As I have mentioned, elsewhere, I decided to postpone acquiring an M10 Monochrom, last year, and instead add some M lenses.)

One the other hand, the optical improvements, which affect the center of the image, keep the 50 ASPH II in play, as a contender, for a potential, eventual addition.





Apr 13, 2023 at 10:17 AM
 


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LBJ2
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · New Leica Summilux-M 50 f/1.4 ASPH lens and M11 Monochrome


RexGig0 wrote:
Well, Jonathan Slack’s article confirms that the close-focus capability of the 50 ASPH II, at 0.45 meter, is not something that I would need, because my APO 75 ASPH has a magnification ratio that is so close to the same, at 0.7 meter. Plus, the APO 75mm has ribs, and no tab, on the focusing ring. This part, alone, is good news for my bank account, and helps “justify” my decision to acquire my 75 APO, last year. (As I have mentioned, elsewhere, I decided to postpone acquiring an M10 Monochrom, last year, and instead add some M lenses.)

One the
...Show more

Yes. I saw that note too. Very interesting and helpful detail I think when considering our options.

FWIW. I am Leica focus tab enamered. One of the things that struck me upon first use of my first two Leica M lenses 35/FLE and 50/Lux ASPH was the focus tab. It just made so much sense to me being my first experience with such a thing. I quickly realized the tab is for me also a great aid to capture fast movement with the rangefinder, so I reply upon it often. Fish out of water every time I pick up the Summicron 90mm AA and it always takes me a few seconds to realize the focus tab is missing...



Apr 13, 2023 at 10:47 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · New Leica Summilux-M 50 f/1.4 ASPH lens and M11 Monochrome


LBJ2 wrote:
https://www.slack.co.uk/leica_50_2023.html


Based on that drawing, I've noticed that L5 and L7 have also undergone minor adjustments.



Apr 13, 2023 at 10:49 AM
LBJ2
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · New Leica Summilux-M 50 f/1.4 ASPH lens and M11 Monochrome


Fred Miranda wrote:
It's now official:

New Leica Summilux-M 50 f/1.4 ASPH. (11728)
https://leica-camera.com/en-US/photography/lenses/m/leica-summilux-m-50-f14-asph-black

Leica M11-M:
https://leica-camera.com/en-US/stories/fatma-almosa-leica-m11-monochrom-every-nuance-of-black-and-white

Here is Jonathan's Leica 50/1.4 Lux review:
https://www.slack.co.uk/leica_50_2023.html

---------

While I appreciate the weight reduction, I am not fond of the textured paint on aluminum used in the M11 and M11-M. Unlike the black-chrome finish, the texture may not age as gracefully as the brass top and feels less smooth to the touch. I wonder if anyone else shares this viewpoint.

Moreover, since the M11 and M11-M lack IBIS, the reduced weight may make it more difficult to handhold the camera steadily, especially when compared to the brass models such as the M11 Silver
...Show more

For me Silver all the way! To include my preference for the bit of weight too 😎 ( No disrespect to those that cherish the black chrome)



Apr 13, 2023 at 10:53 AM
highdesertmesa
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · New Leica Summilux-M 50 f/1.4 ASPH lens and M11 Monochrome


Fred Miranda wrote:
It's now official:

New Leica Summilux-M 50 f/1.4 ASPH. (11728)
https://leica-camera.com/en-US/photography/lenses/m/leica-summilux-m-50-f14-asph-black

Leica M11-M:
https://leica-camera.com/en-US/stories/fatma-almosa-leica-m11-monochrom-every-nuance-of-black-and-white

Here is Jonathan's Leica 50/1.4 Lux review:
https://www.slack.co.uk/leica_50_2023.html

---------

While I appreciate the weight reduction, I am not fond of the textured paint on aluminum used in the M11 and M11-M. Unlike the black-chrome finish, the texture may not age as gracefully as the brass top and feels less smooth to the touch. I wonder if anyone else shares this viewpoint.

Moreover, since the M11 and M11-M lack IBIS, the reduced weight may make it more difficult to handhold the camera steadily, especially when compared to the brass models such as the M11 Silver
...Show more

The M11/M11M paint texture is nice for the added grip, but the feel of black chrome on brass is sublime.

[Edit] Revising this paragraph after checking my SL2-S Reporter. The Reporter green/olive color and the M11 share the same anti-scratch paint type, but it seems the texture is based on how it's formulated and/or applied:

– M11 (aluminum): rougher texture
– 2022 M6 (brass): smoother texture, reportedly feels like black chrome but I've not held one
– Q2 Reporter (aluminum): rougher texture
– SL2-S Reporter (aluminum): smooth finish without texture, feels more like anodized black than black chrome

For a time, I had the MP film camera with a 35 Cron ASPH v1 silver and 50 Cron sliver alongside the M11, and while the brass MP with brass lenses feels very premium, I didn't miss the weight when I would switch to the M11, especially when the M11 was paired with a lightweight lens like the CV 35 1.5.

Regarding wear, the M11 paint just doesn't seem to wear though to the base coat or base metal at all unless deeply scratched. The M10 in black chrome will only wear after a very long time, but it will wear to the silver base coating rather than the brass itself. So in that regard, the M10-R Black Paint and assuming M11 Black Paint will be the only models that really wear in a graceful way to show brass.

Edited on Apr 13, 2023 at 11:13 AM · View previous versions



Apr 13, 2023 at 10:53 AM
LBJ2
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · New Leica Summilux-M 50 f/1.4 ASPH lens and M11 Monochrome


Fred Miranda wrote:
Based on that drawing, I've noticed that L5 and L7 have also undergone minor adjustments.


I am very much interested to hear from Leica a technical explanation/description of "Updated optical performance, especially on high resolution sensors" and "The new Summilux-M exploits the full performance potential of new camera sensors and offers exceptionally high-contrast and detailed results even in difficult light conditions."

Jono seems to be the first to venture into this detail...



Apr 13, 2023 at 10:59 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · New Leica Summilux-M 50 f/1.4 ASPH lens and M11 Monochrome


highdesertmesa wrote:
The M11/M11M paint texture is nice for the added grip, but the feel of black chrome on brass is sublime.

[Edit] Revising this paragraph after checking my SL2-S Reporter. The Reporter green/olive color and the M11 share the same anti-scratch paint type, but it seems the texture is based on how it's formulated and/or applied:

– M11 (aluminum): rougher texture
– 2022 M6 (brass): smoother texture, reportedly feels like black chrome but I've not held one
– Q2 Reporter (aluminum): rougher texture
– SL2-S Reporter (aluminum): smooth finish without texture, feels more like anodized black than black chrome

For a time, I had the MP film
...Show more

Thanks for the information! It looks like you have a lot of experience with these different bodies and finishes.



Apr 13, 2023 at 11:19 AM
fotografur
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · New Leica Summilux-M 50 f/1.4 ASPH lens and M11 Monochrome


https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/leica-m11-monochrom-preview


Apr 13, 2023 at 11:26 AM
SlowDriver
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · New Leica Summilux-M 50 f/1.4 ASPH lens and M11 Monochrome


M11M review by Jonathan Slack on Macfilos:

https://www.macfilos.com/2023/04/13/review-leica-m11-monochrom-after-eight-months-of-testing/



Apr 13, 2023 at 02:28 PM
highdesertmesa
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · New Leica Summilux-M 50 f/1.4 ASPH lens and M11 Monochrome


Fred Miranda wrote:
Thanks for the information! It looks like you have a lot of experience with these different bodies and finishes.


Hah, I also had the M10-P Reporter for a time, but I can't remember what the finish was like on that one. The Kevlar started fraying almost immediately, and I returned it.

Basically these finishes are "all bets are off" kind of a thing But for sure, the feel of black chrome is best feeling finish out there. I'm sad it's been discontinued.



Apr 13, 2023 at 05:23 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · New Leica Summilux-M 50 f/1.4 ASPH lens and M11 Monochrome


highdesertmesa wrote:
Hah, I also had the M10-P Reporter for a time, but I can't remember what the finish was like on that one. The Kevlar started fraying almost immediately, and I returned it.

Basically these finishes are "all bets are off" kind of a thing But for sure, the feel of black chrome is best feeling finish out there. I'm sad it's been discontinued.


I recall you bringing up the problems with Kevlar, and a mutual acquaintance having similar issues. Consequently, I am hesitant to consider purchasing the 'Reporter" body although I'm still intrigued by the Safari special edition.
It is disheartening to learn that Leica has decided to discontinue the production of black-chrome on brass. Can you confirm if this is indeed the case? If so, it reinforces my resolve to never part ways with my M10-R!



Apr 13, 2023 at 05:45 PM
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