p.2 #1 · New Leica Summilux-M 50 f/1.4 ASPH lens and M11 Monochrome
I have the 50APO and the CV 1.0. I haven’t used either of my ‘luxes (normal and BC) in ages. SO likely not for me but I’m sure the wait list will be long. It’ll likely be an incredible lens if the rumours are all true.
p.2 #4 · New Leica Summilux-M 50 f/1.4 ASPH lens and M11 Monochrome
Lens looks great.
Has me wondering whether the close focus is more useful on a 35/1.4 or 50/14.
I already have v1 FLE 35/1.4 and put myself on weight list for FLE II.
Previously owned the ASPH 50/1.4 a few times.. the new form factor is tempting.
Maybe more so than trading in FLE v1 for v2 just to get the closer MFD.
p.2 #5 · New Leica Summilux-M 50 f/1.4 ASPH lens and M11 Monochrome
The older 50/1.4 Lux allowed for focusing using either the "tab" or "focus ring grooves", but it appears that the new version only permits focusing through the tab.
p.2 #6 · New Leica Summilux-M 50 f/1.4 ASPH lens and M11 Monochrome
Comparing the current and new Leica Summilux-M 50mm f/1.4 ASPH lenses, I observed slightly improved performance when the new lens is wide open, and a significant improvement at f/2.8, particularly at the center of the image. Furthermore, the new lens displays comparable characteristics between sagittal and tangential lines throughout the image field.
p.2 #8 · New Leica Summilux-M 50 f/1.4 ASPH lens and M11 Monochrome
I always liked the 50 Lux flare. Will be interested to see this new version's flare. And how the rendering compares. Probably be a lovely lens.
I am also surprised they updated the optics on this but left the FLE. Maybe Leica tweaked the OG 35 Lux ASPH when the made the FLE and the design was carried as far as was reasonable. No idea really.
I have waited the last several months with this new version rumored, nearly picking up a used 50 Lux several times. I'll get the current 50 Lux ASPH over this anyway, but now at a cheaper price.
Also curious to see if this performance/degradation of non-Leica/thicker sensor stacks.
The smaller size and ergo look wonderful.
Now...when do we get a 50 Noct update?
And, a that 461g on the m11 mono is spectacular. Would love to get my hands on
p.2 #9 · New Leica Summilux-M 50 f/1.4 ASPH lens and M11 Monochrome
nehemiahphoto wrote:
I always liked the 50 Lux flare. Will be interested to see this new version's flare. And how the rendering compares. Probably be a lovely lens.
I am also surprised they updated the optics on this but left the FLE. Maybe Leica tweaked the OG 35 Lux ASPH when the made the FLE and the design was carried as far as was reasonable. No idea really.
I have waited the last several months with this new version rumored, nearly picking up a used 50 Lux several times. I'll get the current 50 Lux ASPH over this anyway, but now at a cheaper price.
Also curious to see if this performance/degradation of non-Leica/thicker sensor stacks.
The smaller size and ergo look wonderful.
Now...when do we get a 50 Noct update?
And, a that 461g on the m11 mono is spectacular. Would love to get my hands on...Show more →
Based on my comparison with their hoods retracted, I don't think the 50/1.4 Lux II is smaller. The newer version appears to be a bit wider and only slightly shorter. It's possible that they share the same optical design but with different types of glass. (??)
I hope Leica didn't enhance the coating too much because I also appreciate the veiling flare produced by the current version.
p.2 #10 · New Leica Summilux-M 50 f/1.4 ASPH lens and M11 Monochrome
Fred Miranda wrote:
Based on my comparison with their hoods retracted, I don't think the 50/1.4 Lux II is smaller. The newer version appears to be a bit wider and only slightly shorter. It's possible that they share the same optical design but with different types of glass. (??)
I hope Leica didn't enhance the coating too much because I also appreciate the veiling flare produced by the current version.
Very interesting. I thought it looked smaller, but you're probably right. Smaller size is always welcome in my book. I'll be curious to see the differences in IQ and rendering with actual photos.
p.2 #11 · New Leica Summilux-M 50 f/1.4 ASPH lens and M11 Monochrome
I’m not convinced much has been changed with the 50’s optics. While stopped down performance has apparently improved on axis, the MTFs suggest the same mid zone drop in performance that I think holds the Lux ASPH back compared to the Cron APO ASPH. In this respect I think the new version will be like the 35 FLE II - a slight optical tweak rather than a real redesign (the price also suggests this). What might be more of an accomplishment is retaining FLE and reducing MFD to 45cm. That, and the redesigned aperture, which one assumes eliminates the ninja-star aperture shape that considerably impacts OOF specular highlight shapes in the f/2.8-5.6 range.
I’m also a big fan of the 50 Lux ASPH’s rendering/look. But on the technical side I think there is a lot of room for improvement considering how good 50mm lenses have become from other brands over the past 5-10 years (but of course on other very different systems). IOW, this isn’t the ‘real’ Lux ASPH v2 I was expecting to more closely compete technically with the Cron AA.
p.2 #12 · New Leica Summilux-M 50 f/1.4 ASPH lens and M11 Monochrome
Fred Miranda wrote:
Based on my comparison with their hoods retracted, I don't think the 50/1.4 Lux II is smaller. The newer version appears to be a bit wider and only slightly shorter. It's possible that they share the same optical design but with different types of glass. (??)
I hope Leica didn't enhance the coating too much because I also appreciate the veiling flare produced by the current version.
Similar design maybe, but if you change the glass you have to change the design (unless you are substituting glass with exactly the same dispersion and refraction characteristics, but then performance is exactly the same)
p.2 #13 · New Leica Summilux-M 50 f/1.4 ASPH lens and M11 Monochrome
nehemiahphoto wrote:
I always liked the 50 Lux flare. Will be interested to see this new version's flare. And how the rendering compares. Probably be a lovely lens.
I am also surprised they updated the optics on this but left the FLE. Maybe Leica tweaked the OG 35 Lux ASPH when the made the FLE and the design was carried as far as was reasonable. No idea really.
I have waited the last several months with this new version rumored, nearly picking up a used 50 Lux several times. I'll get the current 50 Lux ASPH over this anyway, but now at a cheaper price.
Also curious to see if this performance/degradation of non-Leica/thicker sensor stacks.
The smaller size and ergo look wonderful.
Now...when do we get a 50 Noct update?
And, a that 461g on the m11 mono is spectacular. Would love to get my hands on...Show more →
The 461g is before battery - I think the M11 in black is thereabouts too (without battery).
Imagine a Noct with closer focus - say 0.5m or 0.6m. Even if they kept the price the same it would be exorbitant (i feel the 35FLE and 50lux Asph prices are somewhat sane compared to a $13k Noct). It'd be even heavier and thicker. And if it is a redesigned lens, probably even more expensive.
I'm most surprised about the M11 Mono's price. Maybe Leica sees that it is reaching a ceiling in terms of M body pricing for standard production bodies. The P/Mono variants used to be (IIRC) $500-700 more than the standard one. If we do get an M11P, and it is $200 more than the standard, I can't see who would buy the standard M11 (maybe they would just discontinue it). $200 more than covers the extra memory and minor cosmetic changes (no dot, maybe different coloured lens release, shutter release and maybe painted engravings). Oh and the sapphire screen, if they really did manage to implement a sapphire touch screen. For current M11 owners, the cost of selling and "upgrading" doesn't make sense to me - the changes are too cosmetic.
Or maybe they'll shake things up and do the black lacquer paint M11P with brass top and charge $700 more.
p.2 #15 · New Leica Summilux-M 50 f/1.4 ASPH lens and M11 Monochrome
rscheffler wrote:
I’m not convinced much has been changed with the 50’s optics. While stopped down performance has apparently improved on axis, the MTFs suggest the same mid zone drop in performance that I think holds the Lux ASPH back compared to the Cron APO ASPH. In this respect I think the new version will be like the 35 FLE II - a slight optical tweak rather than a real redesign (the price also suggests this). What might be more of an accomplishment is retaining FLE and reducing MFD to 45cm. That, and the redesigned aperture, which one assumes eliminates the ninja-star aperture shape that considerably impacts OOF specular highlight shapes in the f/2.8-5.6 range.
I’m also a big fan of the 50 Lux ASPH’s rendering/look. But on the technical side I think there is a lot of room for improvement considering how good 50mm lenses have become from other brands over the past 5-10 years (but of course on other very different systems). IOW, this isn’t the ‘real’ Lux ASPH v2 I was expecting to more closely compete technically with the Cron AA....Show more →
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DavidBM wrote:
Similar design maybe, but if you change the glass you have to change the design (unless you are substituting glass with exactly the same dispersion and refraction characteristics, but then performance is exactly the same)
The performance graph of the 50/1.4 Lux II displays a similar pattern to the current version, including a mid dip and weak corners due to FC. Therefore, there have been no modifications to the optical design in that regard. However, the increase in on-axis resolution is intriguing. We will only know more when comparing both versions side by side.
p.2 #16 · New Leica Summilux-M 50 f/1.4 ASPH lens and M11 Monochrome
Fred Miranda wrote:
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The performance graph of the 50/1.4 Lux II displays a similar pattern to the current version, including a mid dip and weak corners due to FC. Therefore, there have been no modifications to the optical design in that regard. However, the increase in on-axis resolution is intriguing. We will only know more when comparing both versions side by side.
I agree the overall scheme can’t have changed much given the overall shape of the curves is so similar. And it wouldn’t surprise me if the block diagram looks much the same. But the design must have changed in some respects (exact spacing, element profiles and thickness etc) if different glass was used. “Better” glass makes a lens better only by allowing design changes, small or big. And the performance change is more than could be explained by, eg, coatings (in any case I dont think coating changes make a difference to published MTF because that’s always best case scenario without backlight, even if real world MTF in difficult light might be better)
p.2 #17 · New Leica Summilux-M 50 f/1.4 ASPH lens and M11 Monochrome
Fred Miranda wrote:
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The performance graph of the 50/1.4 Lux II displays a similar pattern to the current version, including a mid dip and weak corners due to FC. Therefore, there have been no modifications to the optical design in that regard. However, the increase in on-axis resolution is intriguing. We will only know more when comparing both versions side by side.
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DavidBM wrote:
I agree the overall scheme can’t have changed much given the overall shape of the curves is so similar. And it wouldn’t surprise me if the block diagram looks much the same. But the design must have changed in some respects (exact spacing, element profiles and thickness etc) if different glass was used. “Better” glass makes a lens better only by allowing design changes, small or big. And the performance change is more than could be explained by, eg, coatings (in any case I dont think coating changes make a difference to published MTF because that’s always best case scenario without backlight, even if real world MTF in difficult light might be better) ...Show more →
My guess would be these optical changes are part of Leica's somewhat new SL APO-style aesthetic of simulating a lens that is one stop faster by providing higher visual subject separation characteristics when shot at wide apertures. They describe this in several YT videos as:
For wide aperture images:
– In focus areas: very high subject sharpness and contrast
– Rapid focus falloff
– Out of focus areas: lower contrast
My guess would be these optical changes are part of Leica's somewhat new SL APO-style aesthetic of simulating a lens that is one stop faster by providing higher visual subject separation characteristics when shot at wide apertures. They describe this in several YT videos as:
For wide aperture images:
– In focus areas: very high subject sharpness and contrast
– Rapid focus falloff
– Out of focus areas: lower contrast
This story they tell has some truth to it, but really I think it’s mainly a way of handling PR around just saying “we made these lenses sharper” which sounds too reductive for some of their customer base.
Here’s why: how rapid the fall off in sharpness is is function of peak sharpness and not much else. The degree of sharpness of progressively more OOF regions very rapidly, in a decent lens, goes to numbers that can be calculated in theory. The speed of falloff then depends on how sharp the in focus area is. If the somewhat OOF areas of two lenses are much the same in sharpness, you only get a difference in the difference between in focus and out of focus sharpness by a change in what you can vary by design - sharpness in the focal plane. Yes those APO Leica lenses have a bigger difference between in focus and relatively oof areas compared to earlier Leica lenses, but that’s because their in focus sharpness is higher.
I said almost. You can somewhat moderate oof contrast by allowing undercorrected SA. But I don’t think that’s whats going on here (and it counts *against* fast falloff) because doing that reduces peak sharpness.
p.2 #19 · New Leica Summilux-M 50 f/1.4 ASPH lens and M11 Monochrome
DavidBM wrote:
This story they tell has some truth to it, but really I think it’s mainly a way of handling PR around just saying “we made these lenses sharper” which sounds too reductive for some of their customer base.
Here’s why: how rapid the fall off in sharpness is is function of peak sharpness and not much else. The degree of sharpness of progressively more OOF regions very rapidly, in a decent lens, goes to numbers that can be calculated in theory. The speed of falloff then depends on how sharp the in focus area is. If the somewhat OOF areas of two lenses are much the same in sharpness, you only get a difference in the difference between in focus and out of focus sharpness by a change in what you can vary by design - sharpness in the focal plane. Yes those APO Leica lenses have a bigger difference between in focus and relatively oof areas compared to earlier Leica lenses, but that’s because their in focus sharpness is higher.
I said almost. You can somewhat moderate oof contrast by allowing undercorrected SA. But I don’t think that’s whats going on here (and it counts *against* fast falloff) because doing that reduces peak sharpness. ...Show more →
I also wonder if they designed the field curvature to fit into the intention of rapid focus falloff as well. Personally, I was surprised that Karbe kept that wavy characteristics. I guess it's not too unexpected when they kept the same retail price.
