Archive 2022 · Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 35/1.5 VM I & II and Nikon Z Apo-Lan...
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.6 #1 · Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 35/1.5 VM I & II and Nikon Z Apo-Lanthar 65/2
nehemiahphoto wrote:
Yes—owned and shot it. But it’s much larger/heavier than this new guy. If this new one is a mini-me of the 35/40/50 1.2 formula, should be a winner.
Unfortunately, I think the smaller size of the new guy (i.e., the new 35 f/1.5) means it will have more vignetting and perhaps another compromise or two that the bigger guy (i.e., the 35 f/1.2 III) does not have. I think Voigtlander has a really nice lineup for Leica M mount 35mm lenses. You have the highly corrected but not that small 35 f/2 APO. You have the ultra fast but not that small 35 f/1.2. Then you have this lens which seems to be a compromise between ultra small size and likely performance in some ways. All of these lenses are very modern, but if you want the rendering of an older lens you can also get the 35 f/1.4 classic. That is four pretty great lenses for lots of choice, and for Sony shooters you can even get 3 out of 4 of them in FE mount. I doubt this new one will ever show up in FE mount (just like the 75 f/1.5 and 28 f/2 II), but Voigtlander has still brought us a lot of really nice lenses.
p.6 #2 · Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 35/1.5 VM I & II and Nikon Z Apo-Lanthar 65/2
Steve Spencer wrote:
Unfortunately, I think the smaller size of the new guy (i.e., the new 35 f/1.5) means it will have more vignetting and perhaps another compromise or two that the bigger guy (i.e., the 35 f/1.2 III) does not have. I think Voigtlander has a really nice lineup for Leica M mount 35mm lenses. You have the highly corrected but not that small 35 f/2 APO. You have the ultra fast but not that small 35 f/1.2. Then you have this lens which seems to be a compromise between ultra small size and likely performance in some ways. All of these lenses are very modern, but if you want the rendering of an older lens you can also get the 35 f/1.4 classic. That is four pretty great lenses for lots of choice, and for Sony shooters you can even get 3 out of 4 of them in FE mount. I doubt this new one will ever show up in FE mount (just like the 75 f/1.5 and 28 f/2 II), but Voigtlander has still brought us a lot of really nice lenses....Show more →
I'm not expert in optical design and could be totally wrong about this but I have hope that the large rear element will minimize optical vignetting. Some 35mm lenses with low optical vignetting have a wider last element before the sensor.
p.6 #3 · Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 35/1.5 VM I & II and Nikon Z Apo-Lanthar 65/2
Steve Spencer wrote:
Unfortunately, I think the smaller size of the new guy (i.e., the new 35 f/1.5) means it will have more vignetting and perhaps another compromise or two that the bigger guy (i.e., the 35 f/1.2 III) does not have. I think Voigtlander has a really nice lineup for Leica M mount 35mm lenses. You have the highly corrected but not that small 35 f/2 APO. You have the ultra fast but not that small 35 f/1.2. Then you have this lens which seems to be a compromise between ultra small size and likely performance in some ways. All of these lenses are very modern, but if you want the rendering of an older lens you can also get the 35 f/1.4 classic. That is four pretty great lenses for lots of choice, and for Sony shooters you can even get 3 out of 4 of them in FE mount. I doubt this new one will ever show up in FE mount (just like the 75 f/1.5 and 28 f/2 II), but Voigtlander has still brought us a lot of really nice lenses....Show more →
There is also the 35/2 Ultron which is actually the lens I have settled on of the all m-mount 35mm for my daily driver. And I’ve owned them all except the APO (at that size, I’ll take the ZM 35/1.4 and just stop down to f2 but have the 1.4 if wanted). Have owned multiple Leica’s and ZM’s in 35mm land too. It’s not at all a perfect draw, but the best set of compromises for my preferences.
p.6 #4 · Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 35/1.5 VM I & II and Nikon Z Apo-Lanthar 65/2
Fred Miranda wrote:
I'm not expert in optical design and could be totally wrong about this but I have hope that the large rear element will minimize optical vignetting. Some 35mm lenses with low optical vignetting have a large last element before the sensor.
Hmm..quite interesting. Two questions come to mind:
1) What other normal or small-ish lenses use a larger rear element resulting in reduced optical vignetting?
2) I wonder if/why other manufacturers haven't take this route more often? Perhaps there's an offsetting sets of compromises or associated engineering complexities or something?
p.6 #5 · Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 35/1.5 VM I & II and Nikon Z Apo-Lanthar 65/2
It's just a guess on my part, but the Sonnar 35/2 has a very large last element and has very small optical vignetting. The 35/1.4 ZM has the last element wider than the previous ones as well.
p.6 #6 · Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 35/1.5 VM I & II and Nikon Z Apo-Lanthar 65/2
Steve Spencer wrote:
Unfortunately, I think the smaller size of the new guy (i.e., the new 35 f/1.5) means it will have more vignetting and perhaps another compromise or two that the bigger guy (i.e., the 35 f/1.2 III) does not have. I think Voigtlander has a really nice lineup for Leica M mount 35mm lenses. You have the highly corrected but not that small 35 f/2 APO. You have the ultra fast but not that small 35 f/1.2. Then you have this lens which seems to be a compromise between ultra small size and likely performance in some ways. All of these lenses are very modern, but if you want the rendering of an older lens you can also get the 35 f/1.4 classic. That is four pretty great lenses for lots of choice, and for Sony shooters you can even get 3 out of 4 of them in FE mount. I doubt this new one will ever show up in FE mount (just like the 75 f/1.5 and 28 f/2 II), but Voigtlander has still brought us a lot of really nice lenses....Show more →
„another compromise or two“ like being f/1.5 instead of f/1.2 maybe? Just wishful thinking on my part, but surely 2/3 of a stop must buy us something in size
Oct 27, 2022 at 11:47 AM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.6 #7 · Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 35/1.5 VM I & II and Nikon Z Apo-Lanthar 65/2
Fred Miranda wrote:
I'm not expert in optical design and could be totally wrong about this but I have hope that the large rear element will minimize optical vignetting. Some 35mm lenses with low optical vignetting have a wider last element before the sensor.
This is a very interesting point and something I have never thought about before. I hope you are right, but I still worry that a 39mm filter means vignetting is going to be pretty extreme and we have the example of the recent 28 f/2 II that looks to be a fairly similar lens and has quite high vignetting. I hope that last element alleviates it at least a big in this lens. I am not personally overly concerned about vignetting, but a little lower than the 28 f/2 II would be nice.
Oct 27, 2022 at 11:52 AM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.6 #8 · Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 35/1.5 VM I & II and Nikon Z Apo-Lanthar 65/2
nehemiahphoto wrote:
There is also the 35/2 Ultron which is actually the lens I have settled on of the all m-mount 35mm for my daily driver. And I’ve owned them all except the APO (at that size, I’ll take the ZM 35/1.4 and just stop down to f2 but have the 1.4 if wanted). Have owned multiple Leica’s and ZM’s in 35mm land too. It’s not at all a perfect draw, but the best set of compromises for my preferences.
Yes, there is the f/2 ultron as well, which I left off the list. Thanks for bringing that up and reminding me (us). I never bonded with the bokeh from that lens, but I understand why people like it.
Oct 27, 2022 at 11:54 AM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.6 #9 · Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 35/1.5 VM I & II and Nikon Z Apo-Lanthar 65/2
fjablo wrote:
„another compromise or two“ like being f/1.5 instead of f/1.2 maybe? Just wishful thinking on my part, but surely 2/3 of a stop must buy us something in size
I think it is probably more like half a stop, but that depends on how the numbers were rounded. Still that half or maybe 2/3rds of a stop has bought a huge reduction in size, but the question really is whether that huge reduction in size comes with other costs as well. I suspect it does, but that is just a guess. We will know more once Fred gets his hands on the lens and can test it for us.
p.6 #10 · Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 35/1.5 VM I & II and Nikon Z Apo-Lanthar 65/2
Steve Spencer wrote:
Yes, there is the f/2 ultron as well, which I left off the list. Thanks for bringing that up and reminding me (us). I never bonded with the bokeh from that lens, but I understand why people like it.
I just noticed it was forgotten The 28/2ii does have some heavy optical vignetting, but I do love that lens—in fact, to my mind, it’s probably CV’s best all things considered. If we get a pretty similarly smooth draw and that degree of optical vignetting and overall superb technical IQ with the 35/1.5’s size, I’d be pumped.
To expand on Fred’s observation, I do wonder if it’s not only the front element (which we know) and the back element, but also the relationship or ratio of those two elements to each other, and also as a block to the sensor.
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.6 #11 · Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 35/1.5 VM I & II and Nikon Z Apo-Lanthar 65/2
nehemiahphoto wrote:
I just noticed it was forgotten The 28/2ii does have some heavy optical vignetting, but I do love that lens—in fact, to my mind, it’s probably CV’s best all things considered. If we get a pretty similarly smooth draw and that degree of optical vignetting and overall superb technical IQ with the 35/1.5’s size, I’d be pumped.
To expand on Fred’s observation, I do wonder if it’s not only the front element (which we know) and the back element, but also the relationship or ratio of those two elements to each other, and also as a block to the sensor.
Would love someone to read someone explain this....Show more →
I totally agree with what you say here, and I think your suggestion makes a ton of sense and would also love to here from somebody who knows more that I do.
p.6 #13 · Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 35/1.5 VM I & II and Nikon Z Apo-Lanthar 65/2
I have the E-mount versions of 35/1.2, 40/1.2 (SE) and 50/1.2 (SE), as well as E-mount 35/1.4 Nokton and 35/2 APO.
I'm getting the new 35/1.5 VM too (I have pre-ordered Type I) but I wouldn't swap out any of the native E-mount lenses for it since they are optimized for Sony sensor stack and have electronic communications for EXIF etc. 40/1.2 SE is one of my favorite travel lenses as it's the smallest and lightest of the f1.2 trio and my copy of the lens works well at hard infinity for long distance shots on my A7C (all my other CV E-mount lenses at these focal lengths need to be focused a bit closer than hard infinity for the same purpose).
It's still unknown how well the 35/1.5 VM works adapted on Sony cameras etc. If the 35/1.5 VM works pretty well adapted and if I like its rendering qualities I'll keep it for the long term as a smaller / lighter lens with hopefully some unique qualities and I could adapt it to my Sigma fp as well unlike the native E-mount lenses. If it doesn't work well adapted, I'll probably trade it in later when buying something else in the future.
p.6 #14 · Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 35/1.5 VM I & II and Nikon Z Apo-Lanthar 65/2
I’m definitely reviewing a copy of this lens as well. Very very excited as I feel like until now, Voigtlander has not put out a direct challenger to the 35 FLE which I love.
Some thoughts:
-I do expect significant longitudinal CA for several reasons: the lack of special glass materials, the fact that other similar Voigtlander lenses have a lot of LoCA, and the fact that the 35/1.2 III is almost the same layout and has significant LoCA. BUT, the 35 FLE has a lot too and its images still look good.
-It would not shock me at all if this lens matches or exceeds the 35 FLE’s performance despite being smaller and lighter. The 35 FLE’s optical design is no less than 28 years old! (designed before I was born!) whereas the Voigtlander is 0 years old and has 4x as many aspheres. Also, look at how sharp the 28 ultron and 50/1.5 II are despite being tiny.
-Agree that optical vignetting could be very strong.
-Love that it focuses to 0.5m, similar to the redesigned 35 FLE.
-I doubt close focus performance will suffer much despite the lack of floating group.
This could be my new favorite lens! Excited to find out.
p.6 #15 · Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 35/1.5 VM I & II and Nikon Z Apo-Lanthar 65/2
fwdesign wrote:
I’m definitely reviewing a copy of this lens as well. Very very excited as I feel like until now, Voigtlander has not put out a direct challenger to the 35 FLE which I love.
Some thoughts:
-I do expect significant longitudinal CA for several reasons: the lack of special glass materials, the fact that other similar Voigtlander lenses have a lot of LoCA, and the fact that the 35/1.2 III is almost the same layout and has significant LoCA. BUT, the 35 FLE has a lot too and its images still look good.
-It would not shock me at all if this lens matches or exceeds the 35 FLE’s performance despite being smaller and lighter. The 35 FLE’s optical design is no less than 28 years old! (designed before I was born!) whereas the Voigtlander is 0 years old and has 4x as many aspheres. Also, look at how sharp the 28 ultron and 50/1.5 II are despite being tiny.
-Agree that optical vignetting could be very strong.
-Love that it focuses to 0.5m, similar to the redesigned 35 FLE.
-I doubt close focus performance will suffer much despite the lack of floating group.
This could be my new favorite lens! Excited to find out. ...Show more →
Very good points!
Yes, I imagine that axial CA will be noticeable but perhaps better corrected compared to the faster lenses using a similar design.
High vignetting is also a given but I'm hoping it won't be extreme.
The last 4 rear elements in the optical design are also similar to the CV 35/1.7 Ultron's, so I expect we could have a mix of the CV 35/1.2 III and CV 35/1.7 characteristics. Like you wrote, perhaps not so strong SA at close distance.
I would love to see some type of a 'click' or tactical feeling when moving beyond 0.7m on this new lens.
The CV 35/1.7 Ultron already outperforms the Leica 35/1.4 FLE in terms of resolution and contrast so I would not be surprised if the new 35/1.5 is also superior. At first I was drawn to the brass version but I can't ignore the 188g from the aluminum version. it's the same weight as the CV 35/1.4 Nokton classic!
p.6 #16 · Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 35/1.5 VM I & II and Nikon Z Apo-Lanthar 65/2
Still no announcement about the release date but Cosina announced this specification / exterior material treatment change for 35/1.5 Type I today:
-----------
Regarding the Voigtlander brand NOKTON Vintage Line 35mm F1.5 Aspherical type I VM announced on October 14, 2022, we would like to inform you of the specification change.
Initially, we planned to release the exterior finish with anodized aluminum treatment, but as a result of reconsidering the product styling and product concept, we decided to change the exterior treatment to matte black paint and release it. . There is no change in the price.
"We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause to customers who have already placed orders, as well as those who are considering the product, but we ask for your understanding."
In addition, there is no specification change for Type II.
-----------
Source:
I think the release date will not be in early part of November since it hasn't been announced yet. Usually the dates are announced at least ~2 weeks prior to actual release.
p.6 #17 · Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 35/1.5 VM I & II and Nikon Z Apo-Lanthar 65/2
Juha Kannisto wrote:
Still no announcement about the release date but Cosina announced this specification / exterior material treatment change for 35/1.5 Type I today:
-----------
Regarding the Voigtlander brand NOKTON Vintage Line 35mm F1.5 Aspherical type I VM announced on October 14, 2022, we would like to inform you of the specification change.
Initially, we planned to release the exterior finish with anodized aluminum treatment, but as a result of reconsidering the product styling and product concept, we decided to change the exterior treatment to matte black paint and release it. . There is no change in the price.
"We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause to customers who have already placed orders, as well as those who are considering the product, but we ask for your understanding."
In addition, there is no specification change for Type II.
-----------
Source:
I think the release date will not be in early part of November since it hasn't been announced yet. Usually the dates are announced at least ~2 weeks prior to actual release....Show more →
So, both "Black Paint". The difference is that the Type I is "matte" and Type II is "glossy". Correct?
Availability perhaps mid Nov?
p.6 #18 · Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 35/1.5 VM I & II and Nikon Z Apo-Lanthar 65/2
Fred Miranda wrote:
So, both "Black Paint". The difference is that the Type I is "matte" and Type II is "glossy". Correct?
Availability perhaps mid Nov?
They can paint it pink, as long as they keep the weight under 200g
p.6 #19 · Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 35/1.5 VM I & II and Nikon Z Apo-Lanthar 65/2
I'm also very interested in this lens. In addition, 7 Artisans is coming out with a new 35/2 m-mount in the next few days that looks promising (not their existing Sonnar-style model but a new one in their WEN series).
p.6 #20 · Voigtländer Nokton Vintage Line 35/1.5 VM I & II and Nikon Z Apo-Lanthar 65/2
Fred Miranda wrote:
So, both "Black Paint". The difference is that the Type I is "matte" and Type II is "glossy". Correct?
Availability perhaps mid Nov?
Yes, I think that's correct but the weight specs are same as before so I think internally only Type II is brass and Type I is aluminium but without anonized aluminium surface treatment. I suppose mid-Nov would be the earliest possible release timing and it could be later in the month as well.
The 28/2ii does have some heavy optical vignetting, but I do love that lens—in fact, to my mind, it’s probably CV’s best all things considered. If we get a pretty similarly smooth draw and that degree of optical vignetting and overall superb technical IQ with the 35/1.5’s size, I’d be pumped.