Fred Miranda wrote:
It would be a polarizing move for Leica. Personally, I hope it's not true.
And just to be clear, this "touch screen only" rumor is about removing only the three buttons from the back of the camera along side the LCD screen. The Shutter, ISO, aperture and focus buttons/dials remain on the camera.
Either way, we shall know one way or the other very soon! Wonder if someone will be brave enough to leak a photo of the rear side of the camera...
LBJ2 wrote:
And just to be clear, this "touch screen only" rumor is about removing only the three buttons from the back of the camera along side the LCD screen. The Shutter, ISO, aperture and focus buttons/dials remain on the camera.
It may be just 3 buttons on the back but for those that use them it will be interesting to see if the buttons are removed if it stops some from upgrading.
I'm not a fan of the ISO dial. Tried it once and then set it back to manual and use the menu to change my ISO on my M10M. I prefer the M246 and M243 methods where I could just push the ISO button and use the wheel to set it.
Reminds me of Apple back in 2016 with their redesigned MacBook when they brought in the Touch Bar and eliminated some ports. Although the Macbook still continued to sell some switched back to Windows and others held off upgrading til 5 years later with the new MacBooks.
I'm sure it will be a great camera and it will be interesting to see "What Makes A Legend" in a 2022 Rangefinder.
Now how long do I have to wait before the M11M rumours start to appear.
I can't see Leica doing away with the buttons but who knows we are still only speculating. We will find out soon enough. I am hanging on to my M 10s. No desire to upgrade.
airfrogusmc wrote:
And I am one that loves the ISO dial.
I can't see Leica doing away with the buttons but who knows we are still only speculating. We will find out soon enough. I am hanging on to my M 10s. No desire to upgrade.
I absolutely love the ISO dial. It is the one thing that will make me sell my M240 and get the M10 - or whatever other digital M has it. Reason I haven't yet is I shoot my film Ms nearly all the time.
That dial is so simple it's genius. And it mimics the look of the old film Ms but with a real purpose - unlike that awful fake film advance lever that one of the M10 models had.
Desmolicious wrote:
That dial is so simple it's genius. And it mimics the look of the old film Ms but with a real purpose
I can agree with that.
My problem is my shooting style. I shoot aperture priority and with the lowest ISO possible and higher shutter speeds, so I constantly change my ISO and usually to the in-between ISO values from that on the dial. When I use it on a tripod adapted to my longer Canon FD lenses the pulling up and pushing down the dial I end up jarring the framing I set and have to re-adjust the tripod to reframe the scene.
but it is an ingenious dial.
Dec 24, 2021 at 01:35 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
My problem is my shooting style. I shoot aperture priority and with the lowest ISO possible and higher shutter speeds, so I constantly change my ISO and usually to the in-between ISO values from that on the dial. When I use it on a tripod adapted to my longer Canon FD lenses the pulling up and pushing down the dial I end up jarring the framing I set and have to re-adjust the tripod to reframe the scene.
but it is an ingenious dial.
On the tripod I just leave it pulled up. There is little chance of bumping it when it is stable on the tripod. Works for me and you might want to give it a try. I also don't sweat the in between values a third or a half stop under exposure usually is very recoverable in post, so I almost always set ISO with the ISO dial and only when exposure is super critical do I use theme to set an in between ISO.
LBJ2 wrote:
And just to be clear, this "touch screen only" rumor is about removing only the three buttons from the back of the camera along side the LCD screen. The Shutter, ISO, aperture and focus buttons/dials remain on the camera.
Well, the day Leica removes the shutter and aperture dial, it's the end.
For me the joy of shooting with a M body is the tactical and mechanical feel of the shutter, rangefinder, dials and buttons. If Leica wants to computerize the body further, it will lose its appeal to me. If I want a computer camera with EVF, IBIS, electronic shutter and touchscreen, I might as well just use my Sony Kolari with M lenses and be done with it.
I have a feeling the removal of buttons for a touchscreen only operation won't be the case but if it is, I will definitely not upgrade from the M10-R.
Dec 24, 2021 at 02:14 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
Fred Miranda wrote:
Well, the day Leica removes the shutter and aperture dial, it's the end.
For me the joy of shooting with a M body is the tactical and mechanical feel of the shutter, rangefinder, dials and buttons. If Leica wants to computerize the body further, it will lose its appeal to me. If I want a computer camera with EVF, IBIS, electronic shutter and touchscreen, I might as well just use my Sony Kolari with M lenses and be done with it.
I have a feeling the removal of buttons for a touchscreen only operation won't be the case but if it is, I will definitely not upgrade from the M10-R....Show more →
I am fine with removing the three buttons on the back for a touchscreen. They aren't used for photography anyway and they allow for a bigger LCD screen, which I think would be a small positive. As long as they keep the ISO and shutter speed dials and aperture ring on the lens I will be happy. I do like that they seem to be improving the EVF, which is nice for lenses that don't work or don't work well with the rangefinder. As I said before I don't see this as a major upgrade, but I think there are a lot of small upgrades and it will be a very nice camera.
Steve Spencer wrote:
On the tripod I just leave it pulled up. There is little chance of bumping it when it is stable on the tripod. Works for me and you might want to give it a try. I also don't sweat the in between values a third or a half stop under exposure usually is very recoverable in post, so I almost always set ISO with the ISO dial and only when exposure is super critical do I use theme to set an in between ISO.
Big chance of bumping for me.
If the M10M is on a tripod it normally has the FD150-600L attached, on those days I am also shooting an R5. Both cameras are on and off the tripod frequently. Sometimes the R5 gets attached to the FD150-600, sometimes I have it attached to another EF big white. Either way the M10M is on and off the tripod often sometimes with the 150-600. still attached. sometime I quickly attach an M lens if I need the 150-600 on the R5. I use a Wimberely with my various big whites.
anselwannab wrote:
Let's hope some Leica marketing person gets a little overserved at some holiday party and we find out some more details.....
No need for some Leica marketing person to get a little overserved at some holiday party. Most of the “leaks” and “rumors” are carefully orchestrated by absolutely sober marketing personnel. The technique is so basic that nowadays it’s covered in Marketing 101.
Having shot with the CL (touchscreen, buttons & dials), the touchscreen is nice for review (pinch zoom), etc. but for controls ... it would be hard to imagine a workhorse camera touchscreen only ... umm, your eye to the RF Viewfinder, and you decide to change the triangle or EC.
Sounds like a suicide mission to remove all forms of tactile interface from the "Legend" ... unless you want to replicate the legend of the Edsel.
Having shot with the CL (touchscreen, buttons & dials), the touchscreen is nice for review (pinch zoom), etc. but for controls ... it would be hard to imagine a workhorse camera touchscreen only ... umm, your eye to the RF Viewfinder, and you decide to change the triangle or EC.
Sounds like a suicide mission to remove all forms of tactile interface from the "Legend" ... unless you want to replicate the legend of the Edsel.
It looks like the width and height won't change from the M10 but perhaps Leica was able to reduce some weight and make a better sealed body for the M11. However, M lenses are not weather sealed, so it's kinda of moot point for the latter.
The other thing about having no buttons or dials (no tactile operation) ... would mean you'd have to be "looking at your camera" to change settings.
Rather than being able to make changes while surveying away from the camera, other people will more readily take notice of you poking around on your camera, as you are forced to look at the touchscreen to make adjustments. Kind of the antithesis of discrete ... for which the discrete aspect of the M is renowned.
I'd be very surprised if they are all touchscreen controls only.
I'd be less surprised if they integrated an EVF or EVF / optical overlay with some kind of built in lens > EVF, so you have both an RF and TTL combination experience / option. That might be considered legendary in the development of the M (future looking).
But, touch controls only ... don't see that coming, even as good as the touch menu interface is in the CL or SL.
RustyBug wrote:
The other thing about having no buttons or dials (no tactile operation) ... would mean you'd have to be "looking at your camera" to change settings.
Rather than being able to make changes while surveying away from the camera, other people will more readily take notice of you poking around on your camera, as you are forced to look at the touchscreen to make adjustments. Kind of the antithesis of discrete ... for which the discrete aspect of the M is renowned.
I'd be very surprised if they are all touchscreen controls only.
I'd be less surprised if they integrated an EVF or EVF / optical overlay with some kind of built in lens > EVF, so you have both an RF and TTL combination experience / option. That might be considered legendary in the development of the M (future looking).
But, touch controls only ... don't see that coming, even as good as the touch menu interface is in the CL or SL....Show more →
Not to worry. The M11 with " no buttons or dials " is not going to happen.
There have been comments that some thought there might be a touch screen only LCD on the back of the camera. But never was there any comment or rumors there would be a buttonless or dial-less M11.
Fred Miranda wrote:
It looks like the width and height won't change from the M10 but perhaps Leica was able to reduce some weight......
This doesn't make me too optimistic - same size but less weight either means more plastic than metal or more expensive low weight titanium for example.....my gut feel is Leica chooses more plastic for an upgraded even higher price *shrug*
Fred Miranda wrote:
It looks like the width and height won't change from the M10 but perhaps Leica was able to reduce some weight and make a better sealed body for the M11. However, M lenses are not weather sealed, so it's kinda of moot point for the latter.
Back during the M240 announcement at Photokina 2012, Dave Farkas did an interview with Jesko von Oeynhausen of Leica who stated:
"The lenses themselves are built to such tight tolerances and have oil between the parts, which works to create a kind of sealing. The problem was never with the lenses. It has always been with bodies."
I've used my M gear in adverse weather (rain, snow), and have never had an issue with water and the lenses. While I don't let them get soaked, they still get wet. When I return home I put them by a register and let the dry warm air from the furnace dry them. Even better would be a dry cabinet specifically designed for storing equipment in humid environments. Snow is a lot less problematic if it's sufficiently below freezing and the equipment equalizes to the ambient temperature. Snow just accumulates and can be brushed off. This is pretty much true for any photo equipment in snow.
IIRC, when the M240 was released, one specific point made by Leica was improved weather sealing of the body compared to the M9. For example, apparently with the M9, water entering the cable release socket of the shutter release could enter the camera. Not so with the M240. I imagine the M10 is only improved and the M11 wouldn't be a step backwards. Achilles heel of the M240 and water is the EVF port. Biggest hassle I have in damp/wet conditions is the eyepiece fogging between the diopter correction lens and the eyepiece.
