ken.vs.ryu wrote:
leica cl film - half frame gives close to 80 images a roll and makes use of tl lenses.
That’s actually a brilliant idea. My Pen FT arrived today and, after shooting one roll of film with it, I’m already a convert. So I would buy a half-frame Leica CL film camera without hesitation. But I fear that I might be in a minority.
Not when Leica can do stuff like release the Daniel Craig edition for $2000 more than the regular Q2.
And the only difference is the gold lettering, gold colour Leica button, gold colour strap eyelets and different leather.
Desmolicious wrote:
Don't think it is gonna happen.
Not when Leica can do stuff like release the Daniel Craig edition for $2000 more than the regular Q2.
And the only difference is the gold lettering, gold colour Leica button, gold colour strap eyelets and different leather.
Desmolicious wrote:
Don't think it is gonna happen.
Not when Leica can do stuff like release the Daniel Craig edition for $2000 more than the regular Q2.
And the only difference is the gold lettering, gold colour Leica button, gold colour strap eyelets and different leather.
Cost to Leica to add $2K to the Q2? Maybe a nickel.
Cost to bring out a new film camera? More than a nickel.
If we are talking of a film camera cost of >$4K there is zero incentive for Leica to do this: this would be exactly in the range of a M-P or M-A camera. Leica could then just make more of them to satisfy the higher demand.
But if Leica wants to bring out a new, cheaper Leica film camera - and this was elaborated already on earlier pages in this thread - they need IMO be priced at least $2K lower than their M-P/M-A cameras and avoiding to compete with lower used Leica M prices on the market. So if a new Leica film camera is announced, the price needs to range not above $2K. Such camera surely will be distinguishable from the higher end M-P and M-A counterparts because Leica will do anything to avoid in-house competition with their models as we see in the differentiation between Leica M10 and SL2 for example. Nevertheless it will be a tricky balance for Leica with such cheaper film camera not to cut too many options and not being priced too high either to be competitive with the used M market. Not sure how the end result will look, but my guess is that users who already own a M6 or M7 will be better off with their cameras.
Leica made cheaper M cameras in the past - most recently for example with the limited M-E 240 which even got the 2GB RAM of the M10 series. This series was produced likely with remaining parts of the M 240 series when the M10 was already available. The price for the M-E 240 was much less than a M 240 went for at introduction. I grabbed last year a mint version of a barely used M-E 240 for a steal, and it is a fantastic camera. My point is: cheaper doesn't always mean worse for the end user. In my example here the M-E 240 was made as final round of M 240 production, but I can see that Leica makes a revamped M film camera look-alike for about $2K, too.
retrofocus wrote:
[Leica made cheaper M cameras in the past - most recently for example with the limited M-E 240 which even got the 2GB RAM of the M10 series. This series was produced likely with remaining parts of the M 240 series when the M10 was already available. The price for the M-E 240 was much less than a M 240 went for at introduction. I grabbed last year a mint version of a barely used M-E 240 for a steal, and it is a fantastic camera. My point is: cheaper doesn't always mean worse for the end user. In my example here the M-E 240 was made as final round of M 240 production, but I can see that Leica makes a revamped M film camera look-alike for about $2K, too. ...Show more →
The Leica M-E 240 was still $3,995 though if I recall correctly.
I personally really don't see Leica releasing a $2K camera...
SlowDriver wrote:
The Leica M-E 240 was still $3,995 though if I recall correctly.
I personally really don't see Leica releasing a $2K camera...
That is not what I meant - yes, the introduction price of the M-E 240 was about $4K which was still less than the M 240 at the time when it was originally released (nearly $7K). To justify the much lower price tag in 2019 as new M-E 240 version, Leica branded it with "E" as "Entry" model - which it actually isn't IMO.
Only because we are used to see Leica releasing more collector cameras doesn't mean that they might break into another market with a $2K film camera. I could see it even I am not sure what features or debits it might come with. This is all speculative at this point anyway.
retrofocus wrote:
Only because we are used to see Leica releasing more collector cameras doesn't mean that they might break into another market with a $2K film camera. I could see it even I am not sure what features or debits it might come with. This is all speculative at this point anyway.
Everything is possible but a $2K film camera is highly unlikely IMHO.
I also don't believe Leica is releasing more "collector" cameras than before.
They have certainly upped their prices over the last 5-10 years and are now unapologetically and more than before targeting the high end/luxury market. Different from the collector market, again IMHO.
If you're pointing to a slurry of collector cameras brought out by Leica, look at the venerable M6. I think that was the heyday of Leica spitting out collectables. Just my guess. And I had one. Funny tho, I couldn't get much more $ in the 2nd hand market than your standard M6 even though it had the titanium finish over brass top plate. Mmmm braaaaass.
Of course, those two titanium finish lenses I got at the same time are a different story (pretty highly sought after now).
The only way I could see Leica doing a sub-$2k camera is if they brought back the R mount in a limited way. It’s a lot easier to do a cheap SLR than a cheap RF and there really are no decent new SLR’s available anymore beyond the last few F6’s Nikon is still sitting on.
If Leica did an RP (ie a lightly updated R6) and paired it with a small set of reissued Summicron-R and Elmarit-R primes, it might do pretty decently and I bet they could pull that body off for $1995.
mawz wrote:
The only way I could see Leica doing a sub-$2k camera is if they brought back the R mount in a limited way. It’s a lot easier to do a cheap SLR than a cheap RF and there really are no decent new SLR’s available anymore beyond the last few F6’s Nikon is still sitting on.
If Leica did an RP (ie a lightly updated R6) and paired it with a small set of reissued Summicron-R and Elmarit-R primes, it might do pretty decently and I bet they could pull that body off for $1995.
It's an interesting possibility with the advantage for Leica that it wouldn't lead to direct in-house competition with existing film camera models. Problem on the other hand is that a revamped Leica SLR requires the R-lenses which are no longer made, so Leica wouldn't be able to make money from selling lenses additionally with this camera. And I doubt that Leica would make new R-lenses just for such camera.
retrofocus wrote:
It's an interesting possibility with the advantage for Leica that it wouldn't lead to direct in-house competition with existing film camera models. Problem on the other hand is that a revamped Leica SLR requires the R-lenses which are no longer made, so Leica wouldn't be able to make money from selling lenses additionally with this camera. And I doubt that Leica would make new R-lenses just for such camera.
I could see them bringing back a small set of lenses. No way we'd see a full set, but maybe 3-5? 35 & 50 Summicron-R, 28 & 135mm Elmarit-R? Plus a 90mm in one form or another.
Just enough to make the setup viable for those buying new and relying on the used market for everything else
Same way they're re-releasing some 'Classic' M lenses.
No way would Leica bring back a film SLR, when you can get a perfect R-E (I had two - still have one) for $250.
The R-E is a fantastic camera, spot and avg metering with the flip of a switch with the camera to eye, AE and manual modes. Shutter speeds 1/2000 - 8 secs (I think, I'll have to pull mine out) etc.
It is so nicely made too, makes my Nikon FM2n feel like a toy.
Ya, but a "film" camera is nothing more than a box that moves film across a plain so it can be exposed. It has some fancier features like a light meter and a shutter system, and of course it holds a lens onto the box as well, but in simpler tetms, it's a box. Charging thousands for a box is ludacris!
Today's digital cameras are a lot more complex and they house all that those old film cameras did, minus the film, and so much more, like a sensor, computer to develop the image,GPS, and means to transfer the images.
How much are we going to pay for a film box, no matter how many thrills Leica or anyone throws in?
retrofocus wrote:
I doubt it even it is possible of course. Leica removed the CL because it gave Leica severe headaches due to in-house competition with the M series at the time. I can't see a new CL to be successfully sold for even $1K when the original can be obtained for half of this. And I doubt Leica is targeting a new film camera for $500.
billsamuels wrote:
Ya, but a "film" camera is nothing more than a box that moves film across a plain so it can be exposed. It has some fancier features like a light meter and a shutter system, and of course it holds a lens onto the box as well, but in simpler tetms, it's a box.
Are you sure you know what a camera is? A rangefinder?
billsamuels wrote:
Today's digital cameras are a lot more complex and they house all that those old film cameras did, minus the film, and so much more, like a sensor, computer to develop the image,GPS, and means to transfer the images.
Don't you know that high precision mechanics designed to last cost a lot more than plastics + electronics who life is expected to be short? And we are not talking only photography here but astronomy, binoculars, watches, etc.
So buy a camera with a GPS: I'm sure your images will be better because of it and you it will not be expensive.
billsamuels wrote:
Ya, but a "film" camera is nothing more than a box that moves film across a plain so it can be exposed. It has some fancier features like a light meter and a shutter system, and of course it holds a lens onto the box as well, but in simpler tetms, it's a box. Charging thousands for a box is ludacris!
Today's digital cameras are a lot more complex and they house all that those old film cameras did, minus the film, and so much more, like a sensor, computer to develop the image,GPS, and means to transfer the images.
How much are we going to pay for a film box, no matter how many thrills Leica or anyone throws in?
The cheapest Leica M film camera with rangefinder - the more cheaply built CL excluded - goes currently for $1500 in the used market. It's not only Leica where prices for rangefinder cameras are driven up - the Zeiss Ikon ZM is in the same range. For Leica/Zeiss, the brand name makes the majority of the price. How much it is worth is you can ask for all kind of goods out there - in the end it is up on each of us to decide.
Too bad I live in California now with its water shortages/restrictions. When I lived in NJ, I had my own basement darkroom and developed and printed. Sold off my 2 Leica MPs but still have a few M2s, a M3 and M4 that I can exercise the shutters with.
When I left the East Coast, I donated all my darkroom gear to my son's high school photography class. Not only did they have a complete digital workflow with large format Epson printers with the students using Lightroom, they had a complete analog set up as well.
