andrewd01 wrote:
It is great to see renewed interest in manufacturing quality film cameras. Hopefully the new cameras are designed with the view to long term serviceability, with appropriate spare parts availability. This has been one of the great strengths of the M film cameras.
Hopefully some of the other manufacturers follow suit. Film shooters are currently strongly reliant on cameras 30-60 years old, and the technicians that service these cameras are close to retirement.
It would be nice to see other brands following the trend - but I doubt that it is going to happen. They are all fully vested into digital technology which is not going too well for them either. Adding another risk with a "new" film camera is probably not a good time for them now. There are also still a lot of older SLRs in good condition from Canon, Nikon, Olympus, Pentax etc floating in the market. I don't see this changing soon.
Prices for used rangefinder cameras are on the rise and likely continue to do so. Voigtlander Bessa cameras also have significantly increased in used values (super cheap to get a couple years ago) - same is true for Nikon S2 and Canon 7 cameras just to name a few. That's probably why Leica sees a market niche with this rumor.
retrofocus wrote:
I doubt it will be a revived M6 for two reasons - too much interference with existing MP and MA models (in-house competition) and it must be a significant step down in price from $4K for a MP. $3K is still too expensive even some crazy ebay M6 prices currently ask for it. My guess is something around $1.5K - a competitive price with used Leica market camera prices.
My guess is it will be a M with cheaper (maybe magnesium alloy) outside body not manufactured in Germany with a limitation in viewfinder frames and fixed magnification (0.68x like in the M 240) compared to MP and MA models. This all for $1.5K, and it could be a winner without compromising MP and MA sales. ...Show more →
A brand new Leica MP costs $5,295 now, not sure how much they go for used, up till about 3 years ago they retailed for just over $4K.
Perhaps they come up with a new Minilux, one with a fixed lens and one with a zoom?
SlowDriver wrote:
A brand new Leica MP costs $5,295 now, not sure how much they go for used, up till about 3 years ago they retailed for just over $4K.
Perhaps they come up with a new Minilux, one with a fixed lens and one with a zoom?
All is possible, but I doubt it. Such camera would not be competitive to the used camera M market. And I believe this is what Leica targets - but I can be wrong. With a Minilux camera and/or fixed lens camera, profits would be very low if even existent. Leica knows that their best horse in the stable and most profitable one remains the M camera system.
retrofocus wrote:
My guess is it will be a M with cheaper (maybe magnesium alloy) outside body not manufactured in Germany with a limitation in viewfinder frames and fixed magnification (0.68x like in the M 240) compared to MP and MA models. This all for $1.5K, and it could be a winner without compromising MP and MA sales.
Starting to sound a little like a CL......
Count me as the most surprised guy on earth if Leica releases a M mount camera for $1500. Likely cheaper build and handicapped as you say, but I would guess it would be more like $3000-$4000, as Leica's 'affordable' is relative to the MP & M-A.
Danner wrote:
Also, the M6 Classic is the PERFECT film M, IMHO.
Why?
The MP fixes everything that was wrong with the M6 Classic, while retaining the exact same dimensions:
1/ Rangefinder patch that no longer flares
2/ Light meter that has a better display
3/ Brass build so no zinc bubbles
4/ Fewer plastic bits inside (even tho the MP still has plastic frame counter bits that can break - ask me how I know..)
gotta be honest... I much prefer the black chrome on the M6 than my black paint. I also prefer the black chrome on the M4-2, M5, M7, MA. It looks bad-a$$, while black paint is so shiny and all 'hey look at my brassing!"
Desmolicious wrote:
gotta be honest... I much prefer the black chrome on the M6 than my black paint. I also prefer the black chrome on the M4-2, M5, M7, MA. It looks bad-a$$, while black paint is so shiny and all 'hey look at my brassing!"
Agreed!
My favourite is when someone takes sandpaper to a perfectly good camera lol
My guess, if this comes to fruition, is that it will be a fixed lens camera. Making a "cheap" M-mount camera only makes sense if they plan to offer budget-friendly lenses, and they discontinued those. It would probably help Cosina and Zeiss sell some more lenses, though.
Something like a CL with a fixed f/2 or faster lens at 28, 35, or 40 seems like a safer bet.
It will still be an expensive camera no doubt, probably $3k. I see the main opportunities for reducing the price being the place of manufacture, external/internal materials selection, and perhaps using a quartz timed electronic shutter instead of a full mechanical design. I don’t think they will deviate from the traditional design as they are smart enough to realise that this is a key attraction for potential customers. If they mess too much with the cameras DNA people will just continue to buy used M6’s.
I too hope it's an M. Portugal made, with less expensive materials hence cutting costs. It'll hopefully appeal to larger customer base, drive more lens demand as well and improve the used M lens market.
Oldwino wrote:
I’m hoping for a modernized Barnack re-issue.
I doubt it. A Barnack camera would come with LTM mount. I don't think Leica wants to revive this fashion. Leica wouldn't be able to sell any new lenses for this kind of camera.
grainsilver wrote:
I too hope it's an M. Portugal made, with less expensive materials hence cutting costs. It'll hopefully appeal to larger customer base, drive more lens demand as well and improve the used M lens market.
My only concern is it will hurt the brand value.
+1. As I said earlier, Leica needs to be competitive with used M camera prices on the market. If you can get a M3 for $1K, I highly doubt Leica would be able to sell a cheaper M model for $2K or even more closer to exorbitant MA and MP prices. I don't see how such cheaper M camera would negatively affect the brand value. It will be a niche camera within a niche rangefinder market only competing with used film M models.
retrofocus wrote:
As I said earlier, Leica needs to be competitive with used M camera prices on the market.
Why? Why would Leica be the only brand in the world who needs to sell new products at competitive prices with the used market?
retrofocus wrote:
If you can get a M3 for $1K, I highly doubt Leica would be able to sell a cheaper M model for $2K
Because nobody would pay more for a new body under warranty with an integrated lightmeter, etc than for a 60+ years old body?
BTW, the price of a M6 or M7 is already much more than $1K, closer the $2000-$3000 and sometimes more. Why would a new body cost less?
retrofocus wrote:
I don't see how such cheaper M camera would negatively affect the brand value.
I agree: you dont' see how because you spend your time explaing Leica's market & marketing by extrapolating your personal situation and your dreams and I do not remember you saying something right.
pmeheut wrote:
Why? Why would Leica be the only brand in the world who needs to sell new products at competitive prices with the used market?
Because nobody would pay more for a new body under warranty with an integrated lightmeter, etc than for a 60+ years old body?
BTW, the price of a M6 or M7 is already much more than $1K, closer the $2000-$3000 and sometimes more. Why would a new body cost less?
I agree: you dont' see how because you spend your time explaing Leica's market & marketing by extrapolating your personal situation and your dreams and I do not remember you saying something right.
We’re talking about Leica here specifically and not other companies who make (or use to make) film bodies. Specifically, the M mount rangefinders, as Leica sees an opportunity to further capitalize on the increasing market for film users and those who would want (or have and want another) M mount film body. If Leica can manufacture and market a 35mm rangefinder body for a price that undercuts the used M mount film bodies, then we all win. How so?
First, the likelihood of used prices for M mount film bodies will decrease as people would rather buy a film body new (with warranty!) at either a similar or lesser cost than what’s being offered used.
Second, Leica doesn’t make any money off of the used market from sites like EBay, Craigslist, etc. By offering something new and similar to the rangefinder M mount experience, they will cut into the used market as people would buy their new camera (see above).
Granted, this is based on the assumption that the rumor is true, the new camera body will be a rangefinder with interchangeable M mount lenses AND will be cheaper...cheap enough to entice people in the market for a used M film body to buy the new rumored Leica film body instead.
It would be nice, but still sounds like wishful thinking. In all of their history, when has Leica ever concerned themselves with the competition of used gear? As far as I know, that has never been their modus operandi.
As well, for argument sake, say they did try to compete with used gear, wouldn't the new 'affordable' Leica also become used gear at some point? Would they then release something else even cheaper to compete with it? Where does it end?
