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Archive 2021 · Pre-order: Sony FE 35mm f/1.4 GM ($1,399)

  
 
Steve Spencer
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p.51 #1 · Pre-order: Sony FE 35mm f/1.4 GM ($1,399)


nehemiahphoto wrote:
Just curious, what is your favorite rendering 35mm? Any format, speed or system and without sensitivity to usability, price and size.


A really good question. I don't like most 35mm lenses and all that I really like are manual focus. Three that I like follow a lineage. One of my favorite rendering 35mm lenses of all time, is the Zeiss C/Y 35 f/1.4. It has a lot of weaknesses, however, with a lot of axial CA and the bokeh can be challenging at times, but when it gets it right it is lovely. I also very much like the Zeiss ZE/ZF/ZF.2 35 f/1.4 which is obviously related. It is slightly easier to shoot, with really nice bokeh, but still a lot of axial CA. There is also some funkiness as you get to the edges and corners that I think is probably due to fairly high astigmatism there. Finally, I also really like the Zeiss Milvus 35 f/1.4. It cleans up most of the axial CA and the funkiness in the edges and corners of the ZE/ZF/ZF.2 version and although the bokeh isn't quite as good, it is still really nice, IMO. The progression that Zeiss chose here, however, meant that each time the lens got bigger and bigger. The C/Y 35 f/1.4 is already bigger than I would like to use and the Milvus is just huge. I ended up getting rid of the of the Milvus because it was just way too big.

For smaller size I am planning to get the CV 35 f/1.2 III. I think I will like its rendering from all I have seen. It is not ideal either with quite a bit of axial CA and bokeh that is a little busy at times, but I think I can be quite happy with it. I have never had an RX1 or RX1r. I love what I have seen from that camera, and I like very much the compromises they made when designing that lens for that camera. It is probably the best rendering 35mm, but I would mention one other lens that I had and really liked for rendering, the Leica R 35 f/2. It has terrible corners and quite a bit of CA (both lateral and axial), but also lovely bokeh and for portraits I very much liked the rendering.

So, I guess I didn't answer your question. What rendering of these I like do I like best? Probably the RX1/RX1r, but I have never shot that. Of the ones I have shot probably the Milvus 35 f/1.4 but it is huge. I know you really like the Pentax 31 f/1.8 Limited, which I didn't include. It would be right up there with the others from all I have seen, but it is a lens I have always wanted to try but never have. I think this 35 GM could be right up there with the Pentax 31 Limited, but probably with a bit better CA correction and a bit worse rendering and not much bigger in size. For ease of use I would probably pick the 35 GM over even the very nice 31 Limited.

PS: I didn't notice the any format in your original post. If I can include a bigger format, then my clear favorite for this field of view would be the Fuji GF 45 f/2.8 for the Fuji GFX system, which is about a 35 f/2 equivalent in FF 35mm. It comes close to my ideal. It is reasonably sharp, but not incredibly so. It has fairly low CA but didn't try to totally eliminate CA. It used a more moderate aperture to keep the size down (it is just under 500g), and it has a lovely rendering including very nice bokeh. Some Fuji MF people complain they wish it were faster, but I find it to be a wonderful lens.



Jan 24, 2021 at 10:24 AM
zhangyue
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p.51 #2 · Pre-order: Sony FE 35mm f/1.4 GM ($1,399)


I don’t think I see 35mm f1.2 images bothersome maybe I just didn’t see link like those above. Render wise, I feel that one is top.

Zeiss ZE/ZF.2 is a very lovely lens, it can draw very pretty bokeh than just smooth. At the same time, it can show busyness with certain condition and have lots of optical problems. Leica R lux and R cron both can draw very pretty but again they are similar to ZE/ZF2 that will screw up under certain condition due to almost feta optical flaw. Modern lens usually behave more consistently but boring at the same time.

There is no rule in this regard. But Bearing a character label is a lot easy to justify in the bag than modern glasses, even most of them perform more consistent.

Steve Spencer wrote:
Personally, I am willing to compromise on some color aberration correction for rendering, and I am will to compromise on sharpness for rendering, and I am willing to compromise on aperture for rendering, but I am not willing to compromise on size for rendering. The 35 GM is about as big as I am willing to go for a 35mm lens. If I were willing to go with a larger lens the Sigma 35 f/1.2 makes very few compromises other than size, although its rendering is still only pretty good and not great, IMO.

I am betting after following
...Show more



Jan 24, 2021 at 11:54 AM
nehemiahphoto
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p.51 #3 · Pre-order: Sony FE 35mm f/1.4 GM ($1,399)


Steve Spencer wrote:
A really good question. I don't like most 35mm lenses and all that I really like are manual focus. Three that I like follow a lineage. One of my favorite rendering 35mm lenses of all time, is the Zeiss C/Y 35 f/1.4. It has a lot of weaknesses, however, with a lot of axial CA and the bokeh can be challenging at times, but when it gets it right it is lovely. I also very much like the Zeiss ZE/ZF/ZF.2 35 f/1.4 which is obviously related. It is slightly easier to shoot, with really nice bokeh, but still a
...Show more

Yes, 35mm land is very difficult, and often it seems the winner are not the "best" lenses, but remain by the faults of other options. It always seems to be a balancing act, and one more difficult than other classes. I am less sensitive to CA of both types than most on here, but probably pickier on color and rendering--and I do need some character/singularity, which I do not equate with some uncorrected CA or harsher transitions.

For the record, I do love the Pentax, but I use it as the best compromise between rendering, IQ, price and size. I enjoy the CY 35/1.4, Pentax 31 and RX1 best. With the adapter, the Pentax is the largest size I find I will actually use. It's identical to the GM 24, though heavier. My favorite 35mm ever is the CY 35 1.4 MMJ, but it excels only in specific areas and context (MFD, environmental portrait, WO signature, with 15 feet at f1.4-8) to my mind, but areas I often shoot. Having owned 4 copies, and still always being temped, I just can't handle the size + adapter. Sits on the shelf then I sell.

I do love the RX1 too, though the peak isn't as high as the CY 35/1.4 or the Pentax for people and environmental work as they both have a little more je ne sais quoi ultimately. Sometimes that ultimate smoothness and consistently biting colors/colors make for more staid and modern aesthetic on the RX1.

I largely have the same impressions as you with most the 35mm's you mentioned, though I never tried the Milvus 35 on account of size. I have been intrigued by the GFX 45--sometimes it seems the transitions can get a bit busy? Is that right or am I am I looking at over processed files? I haven't studied it hard.

We will see on this GM 35. I was hoping to sell my Pentax and consolidate my 35mm's into the GM 35, but after Galer's and some others I have seen, it really seems that Sony tried to go for hellacious sharpness and not a rendering lens. I realize part of it is heavy processing by Galer, but to me it looks more like a Canon RF lens from his gallery pushing a bit cooler colors, higher contrast, extreme sharpness and no real SA gentleness. I'll wait, but I feel like I might just keep a couple of my current options and pick up the Sigma 35i instead for an AF option.

I just sold my CV 35/1.2III. You may like it better. F1.2 is fun, and the size and ergo are great, but I didn't find much magic in the images. It's a very good option though, just can't crack the top 3 for me. I also like the MS-Optics 35/1.4 and Pre-ASPH 35 Lux, but those lenses do some really wild stuff and produce images unlike just about anything. But they are lousy general 35mm's in my opinion, despite how lovely the images can be.



Jan 24, 2021 at 12:04 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.51 #4 · Pre-order: Sony FE 35mm f/1.4 GM ($1,399)


nehemiahphoto wrote:
I have been intrigued by the GFX 45--sometimes it seems the transitions can get a bit busy? Is that right or am I am I looking at over processed files? I haven't studied it hard.


From the samples I've seen, the GF 45/2.8 does not seem to have smooth transition zone. Here are some samples at mid-distance:

(From Jonas Rask review)

_https://i0.wp.com/jonasraskphotography.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/rask40561.jpg
_https://i1.wp.com/jonasraskphotography.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/rask36711.jpg
_https://i1.wp.com/jonasraskphotography.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/rask37781.jpg



Jan 24, 2021 at 01:30 PM
Flaxx74
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p.51 #5 · Pre-order: Sony FE 35mm f/1.4 GM ($1,399)


Sold my 35mm 1.4 ZA today, that went very quick and with only moderate loss.

That neans I will not be able to test its rendering side by side with the GM...

While I wait for the GM (estimated shipping currently 15.2.) I have the Sigma 35 f2 dg dn to keep me entertained.



Jan 24, 2021 at 01:45 PM
Steve Spencer
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p.51 #6 · Pre-order: Sony FE 35mm f/1.4 GM ($1,399)


Fred Miranda wrote:
From the samples I've seen, the GF 45/2.8 does not seem to have smooth transition zone. Here are some samples at mid-distance:

(From Jonas Rask review)

_https://i0.wp.com/jonasraskphotography.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/rask40561.jpg
_https://i1.wp.com/jonasraskphotography.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/rask36711.jpg
_https://i1.wp.com/jonasraskphotography.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/rask37781.jpg


I don't find any of those examples to be too bad, and I find Jonas to do a ton of post processing of the images he posts (and even cropping without revealing it). I think he is a great photographer, but I don't find his samples very helpful for evaluation of lenses because of his processing. If I get a chance, but it will probably be a week or so, I will start a thread in the Fuji forum with unprocessed shots and it would be great to get your impressions. My experience has been the transition zone isn't as good as something like the Sigma 45 f/2.8, but still quite good. I will try to provide some examples, however, so people can judge for themselves.



Jan 24, 2021 at 01:54 PM
nehemiahphoto
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p.51 #7 · Pre-order: Sony FE 35mm f/1.4 GM ($1,399)


Steve Spencer wrote:
I don't find any of those examples to be too bad, and I find Jonas to do a ton of post processing of the images he posts (and even cropping without revealing it). I think he is a great photographer, but I don't find his samples very helpful for evaluation of lenses because of his processing. If I get a chance, but it will probably be a week or so, I will start a thread in the Fuji forum with unprocessed shots and it would be great to get your impressions. My experience has been the transition zone isn't
...Show more

One thing I've seen with the GF45 is 3-D/volume/separation. It a lens that despite not being a bokeh monster, seems to provide an appreciably spacial rendering at near and mid-distance, more than many lenses, including GF's. Does that seem correct as someone who owns it?



Jan 24, 2021 at 03:07 PM
nehemiahphoto
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p.51 #8 · Pre-order: Sony FE 35mm f/1.4 GM ($1,399)


Fred Miranda wrote:
From the samples I've seen, the GF 45/2.8 does not seem to have smooth transition zone. Here are some samples at mid-distance:

(From Jonas Rask review)

_https://i0.wp.com/jonasraskphotography.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/rask40561.jpg
_https://i1.wp.com/jonasraskphotography.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/rask36711.jpg
_https://i1.wp.com/jonasraskphotography.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/rask37781.jpg


I had not seen those, but I am with Steve in that I like Jonas' images, but given he is a Fuji ambassador and he processing his files so so hard, I don't even find his reviews helpful despite I enjoy reading them and like the images. I can't find them now (or won't bother), but I remember seeing some images on the GFX thread that looked a bit busy transition wise.



Jan 24, 2021 at 03:28 PM
rico
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p.51 #9 · Pre-order: Sony FE 35mm f/1.4 GM ($1,399)


zhangyue wrote:
The senior lens designer told him that if lens is too sharp, sharpness itself is one kind of aberration.


That's a cool quote: sharpness as the 6th Seidel aberration! In this line of thought, a lens can be considered too sharp if it causes oversampling at the sensor. For tabletop, I regularly shoot around f/20 (depending on the lens) to increase the Airy disk. Even cameras with low-pass filters will generate moire at an objectional level. The best solution might be to lightly sandblast the rear element at the nanometer scale!



Jan 24, 2021 at 05:47 PM
LBJ2
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p.51 #10 · Pre-order: Sony FE 35mm f/1.4 GM ($1,399)


Fred Miranda wrote:
From the samples I've seen, the GF 45/2.8 does not seem to have smooth transition zone. Here are some samples at mid-distance:

(From Jonas Rask review)

_https://i0.wp.com/jonasraskphotography.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/rask40561.jpg
_https://i1.wp.com/jonasraskphotography.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/rask36711.jpg
_https://i1.wp.com/jonasraskphotography.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/rask37781.jpg


First time I am seeing this...and I see some major pop going on in a few of these images. So this is digital MF pop...hmmm



Jan 24, 2021 at 05:52 PM
tbpeur01
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p.51 #11 · Pre-order: Sony FE 35mm f/1.4 GM ($1,399)


Can someone help me with the “too sharp” conversation going on here? Are you saying this lens will reach unprecedented levels of sharpness, the likes of the which 90mm macro/CV 50 APO/55 ZA etc have never seen? Those lenses are obviously favorites around here and used for portraiture, so I’m confused why there is such an emphasis on sharpness unless the only concern has to do with the tradeoff.


Jan 24, 2021 at 06:07 PM
j4nu
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p.51 #12 · Pre-order: Sony FE 35mm f/1.4 GM ($1,399)


tbpeur01 wrote:
Can someone help me with the “too sharp” conversation going on here? Are you saying this lens will reach unprecedented levels of sharpness, the likes of the which 90mm macro/CV 50 APO/55 ZA etc have never seen? Those lenses are obviously favorites around here and used for portraiture, so I’m confused why there is such an emphasis on sharpness unless the only concern has to do with the tradeoff.


https://www.lenstip.com/598.4-Lens_review-Sony_FE_35_mm_f_1.4_GM_Image_resolution.html


That result is even improved by f/4.0 where the lens is able to reach 79.7 ±1.1 lpmm – so, within the margin of error, the same level as the latest resolution record of the Sigma.


I share the sentiment here, I don't think it needs to be that sharp. You can see it in the comparison (camerlabs) to Sigma f1.2, that the GM is considerably sharper and IMHO Sigma is "sharp enough" (while having very nice rendering).

Come to think of it, I'm actually a bit worried we'll end up in the 85mm (DG DN vs GM) situation, but reversed. So one lens being compact and close IQ-wise, but the other having that extra "oomph" in its output. I'm actually in the DG DN camp, but I've never tried the GM to form an informed opinion...



Jan 24, 2021 at 06:44 PM
GMPhotography
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p.51 #13 · Pre-order: Sony FE 35mm f/1.4 GM ($1,399)


Folks this is what we all want this Sony to be. IMHO this is one of the best rendering 35mm around and always has been. Now to get it small, light , cheap and AF is the real issue

I loved this lens

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1684039

Truly the one lens I regret selling



Jan 24, 2021 at 07:21 PM
hiepphotog
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p.51 #14 · Pre-order: Sony FE 35mm f/1.4 GM ($1,399)


tbpeur01 wrote:
Can someone help me with the “too sharp” conversation going on here? Are you saying this lens will reach unprecedented levels of sharpness, the likes of the which 90mm macro/CV 50 APO/55 ZA etc have never seen? Those lenses are obviously favorites around here and used for portraiture, so I’m confused why there is such an emphasis on sharpness unless the only concern has to do with the tradeoff.


It's not the "too sharp" part that people don't like. It's the compromises to get there. For example, over correcting Spherical Aberration would lead to a very busy and outlined highlight bokeh. Of course if you correct the chromatic aberration, you also indirectly correct the achromatic part. So there is a fine line which you want to tread to have an acceptable level of CA while having a nice, smooth background bokeh. So far, Sony has achieved that on the GM 24 and 85 (a little less correction).

But I believe it's not a matter of running simulation to get to that golden balance point. Rendering is a very subjective matter while sharpness, contrast, color correction are all somethings you can predict on your simulator and measure in real life. Lenses like the GM 85 (or like the Nikkor 58/1.4) have a lot of love-hate relationships, which don't generate as high of a sale figure as the well corrected optics. I say Sony is trying still to find the right compromises, especially at each focal length. They said they have a bokeh simulation. But I don't think it captures the real life situtation, especially in the transition zone.

When in doubt, use STF Sony!



Jan 25, 2021 at 12:25 AM
wind30
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p.51 #15 · Pre-order: Sony FE 35mm f/1.4 GM ($1,399)


hiepphotog wrote:
It's not the "too sharp" part that people don't like. It's the compromises to get there. For example, over correcting Spherical Aberration would lead to a very busy and outlined highlight bokeh. Of course if you correct the chromatic aberration, you also indirectly correct the achromatic part. So there is a fine line which you want to tread to have an acceptable level of CA while having a nice, smooth background bokeh. So far, Sony has achieved that on the GM 24 and 85 (a little less correction).

But I believe it's not a matter of running simulation to get to
...Show more

I don't think Sony has achieved it for the 24mm gm. To me the Color Fringing can be improved for the 24mm.

By looking images wise without looking at focal length, most tele lens do ok, like my 85mm dg dn, 135mm gm.

Wide lens seems to be much more problematic....

Only the sigma 35mm f1.2 also has low LoCA and good rendering among many many 35mm I have tried. 24mm is even worse. I have not tried one that has similar performance to the 35mm f1.2 but I did not use many 24mm. I liked the 35mm focal length more so I really wanted a good 35mm.






Jan 25, 2021 at 03:36 AM
richard.o.shaw
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p.51 #16 · Pre-order: Sony FE 35mm f/1.4 GM ($1,399)


I really like the look of this 35GM and the image samples so far.
I will probably need to sell one of my current lenses to purchase this, but I'm not sure which one.
My current kit is 24GM, Zeiss 55, Batis 85, 135GM.
Any advice?
The 135 and 55 are probably my least used the lenses, but I do love the images they produce. I would probably end up using the 35 a lot more than the 135 though...



Jan 25, 2021 at 05:06 AM
Chuck Coyne
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p.51 #17 · Pre-order: Sony FE 35mm f/1.4 GM ($1,399)


Not sure what type photography you do but If I were you and had to sell one of your lenses I would likely sell the Zeiss 55. In my opinion you can fill the gap with the 35GM and Batis 85. I have the 24GM, CV35 1.2, Sigma 85 1.4 DG DN and pre-ordered the 35GM to make my fast f/1.4 AF kit; 24GM 35GM, 85 DG DN. The 135 is great 4th lens to have if you want to throw it in the bag for some longer focal length work. YMMV




Jan 25, 2021 at 06:04 AM
FJR1
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p.51 #18 · Pre-order: Sony FE 35mm f/1.4 GM ($1,399)


richard.o.shaw wrote:
The 135 and 55 are probably my least used the lenses, but I do love the images they produce. I would probably end up using the 35 a lot more than the 135 though...


You probably answered your own question. Dumping the 55 or 135 would be my advice, and even though the 55 will bring you less cash for the 35GM, a kit of 24, 35, 85, 135 gives you more range.




Jan 25, 2021 at 06:11 AM
JVan_02
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p.51 #19 · Pre-order: Sony FE 35mm f/1.4 GM ($1,399)


richard.o.shaw wrote:
I really like the look of this 35GM and the image samples so far.
I will probably need to sell one of my current lenses to purchase this, but I'm not sure which one.
My current kit is 24GM, Zeiss 55, Batis 85, 135GM.
Any advice?
The 135 and 55 are probably my least used the lenses, but I do love the images they produce. I would probably end up using the 35 a lot more than the 135 though...


Since no one has posted the true answer yet, allow me to enlighten you. Sell off the 24 GM, 55 ZA, and 85.

Get 20 G, 35 GM, and Tamron 28-200 for the most versatile and high quality kit. Only half joking



Jan 25, 2021 at 10:39 AM
Hodie
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p.51 #20 · Pre-order: Sony FE 35mm f/1.4 GM ($1,399)


richard.o.shaw wrote:
I really like the look of this 35GM and the image samples so far.
I will probably need to sell one of my current lenses to purchase this, but I'm not sure which one.
My current kit is 24GM, Zeiss 55, Batis 85, 135GM.
Any advice?
The 135 and 55 are probably my least used the lenses, but I do love the images they produce. I would probably end up using the 35 a lot more than the 135 though...


IMO, the 55 is the least special out of that group, so yeah, I would sell that one. But, if it's a lens or focal length that is important to you, then perhaps not. I wouldn't sell the 135 GM because it will be harder to re-attain if you ever decide you want it back, though, I see used prices of it anywhere from 1500-1600 these days. Still, that's a chunk of change.



Jan 25, 2021 at 12:15 PM
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