p.6 #1 · R5/R6 - Battery / Coupler / Charging in the field - lessons & questions
Bruce n Philly wrote:
Wow, that is cool.
I am using long velcro cable straps.... cheap, effective, but fiddly every time I go out in the field.
Hmm.... gotta figure how to get that onto my Gitzo/Wimberly combo......
I have an "arca swiss" track bracket always attached to the underside of my R5... rather not take that off... hmmm........
Peace
Bruce in Philly
Doesn't the plate under your R5 have a 1/4 thread? That's all you need to attach the clamp. My PMG L-bracket comes with 1/4 threads everywhere, so a plenty of options where I want to attach the clamp to. For example, to the side of my R5:
p.6 #2 · R5/R6 - Battery / Coupler / Charging in the field - lessons & questions
Thanx, but what I would like, is an arca swiss plate for my R5 that, in turn, presents a 1/4" socket underneath it. This way, I can leave the plate on my camera at all times and add/remove that clamp when on my big tripod.
There has to be something out there.... seems simple enough. I am trying to avoid that L bracket.
p.6 #3 · R5/R6 - Battery / Coupler / Charging in the field - lessons & questions
Bruce n Philly wrote:
Thanx, but what I would like, is an arca swiss plate for my R5 that, in turn, presents a 1/4" socket underneath it. This way, I can leave the plate on my camera at all times and add/remove that clamp when on my big tripod.
There has to be something out there.... seems simple enough. I am trying to avoid that L bracket.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
PMG product designs are modular. Even when purchasing an L-bracket from them, you have a choice to just purchase the bottom plate or the vertical part only. Here's their bottom plate for the R5:
When purchasing it, you choose either their SS2 strap port socket or QD (for those with QD plug, like RRS). This plate comes with a safety stop to prevent it from twisting. I have this as well as several other PMG plates for my cameras and zoom lenses, and they all have 1/4 - 20 threads underneath.
I don't know what other brand plates that come with 1/4 - 20 thread, as I've always gone exclusively with PMG.
p.6 #4 · R5/R6 - Battery / Coupler / Charging in the field - lessons & questions
Thanx again.... I can't control myself...
I purchased the clamp, and the ProMedia PX3 plate. The PX3 plate was cheaper at $29. Interesting that there were so few Arca-type plates with a 1/4 accessory socket underneath.
So... with this rig, I will replace my current plate under my R5 and always keep it there. Then I will attach the clamp as needed... This avoids then uninstalling/reinstalling my regular plate. My shooting habits are to shoot in environments where I either use only my big Gitzo/Wimberly rig or with my small tripod setup. So this should be no big deal to me.
Further, it looks like I can strap the clamp around the leg of my small tripod, or maybe use the cold-foot adapter and clamp it to the top of my camera (I don't think I will like that).
p.6 #5 · R5/R6 - Battery / Coupler / Charging in the field - lessons & questions
Bruce n Philly wrote:
Thanx again.... I can't control myself...
I purchased the clamp, and the ProMedia PX3 plate. The PX3 plate was cheaper at $29. Interesting that there were so few Arca-type plates with a 1/4 accessory socket underneath.
So... with this rig, I will replace my current plate under my R5 and always keep it there. Then I will attach the clamp as needed... This avoids then uninstalling/reinstalling my regular plate. My shooting habits are to shoot in environments where I either use only my big Gitzo/Wimberly rig or with my small tripod setup. So this should be no big deal to me.
Further, it looks like I can strap the clamp around the leg of my small tripod, or maybe use the cold-foot adapter and clamp it to the top of my camera (I don't think I will like that).
That's a good choice if you don't need either the SS2 or QD port socket. I have the exact same plate, and that should serve you well. It's designed with the holes on both ends for inserting the anti-twist pin to the hole underneath the R5, but I'm not sure whether it comes with the pin itself as it was a few years ago when I had purchased it.
p.6 #6 · R5/R6 - Battery / Coupler / Charging in the field - lessons & questions
FYI
internal R5 NH Battery Usage Test
100% to 37% in about one hour. This sucks.
Power on. I had all power saving modes turned to off or longest settings, back screen on, smooth view finder. IS off. Ambient temp... not sure but it was below freezing. Shooting was on and off... with on being blasts of mechanical shutter at full speed. It started out Green H+.. then I noticed later it moved to White H+.. not sure of the threshold. Original battery, no grip.
I used my power brick all day so the NH internal battery was at 100%. So I figured I would do a test.. pulled the brick cable out and ran her as I mentioned.
I believe we should be able to run this camera full out, enjoy its performance features, and not have to worry about battery life.
Oh, I walked in the cold for about 4 hours or so and burned way less than 1/4 of the brick... then decided to pull the cable and run the test.
p.6 #7 · R5/R6 - Battery / Coupler / Charging in the field - lessons & questions
Very slow day, so I did some simple fps tests with and without the 60W RavPower PD Power Bank and both with OEM and Neewer NH batteries in the BG-R10 Grip. The tests were done with the R5 paired with RF 24-105 f/4L IS and Sigma 150-600C, in 1/1600sec and 1/500sec. I only did with these two lenses and two shutter speeds, as there's a very thorough fps tests done with a variety of lenses and a whole range of shutter speeds here, so no need for me to duplicate:
&ab_channel=TheJPEGExperience
Regardless of the specific test, no difference in results between OEM and Neewer NH batteries. Also, no difference in results whether a single cell (OEM or Neewer) in-body or two cells in the grip was used; no difference between the two lenses employed; and no difference in results between the two shutter speeds.
The fps results:
Without the Power Bank in Green H+ and in both Mechanical and Elec. 1st-Curtain: 12 fps
Without the Power Bank in White H+ in Electronic (no Green H+ in this mode): 20 fps
With the Power Bank (no Green H+; only White H+ with internal battery indicator greyed out) and in both Mechanical and Elec. 1st-Curtain: 10 fps
With the Power Bank in Electronic: 20 fps
So, what would allow the Green H+/12fps a possibility with a PD Power Bank? One with a higher W like this one?
p.6 #8 · R5/R6 - Battery / Coupler / Charging in the field - lessons & questions
Great tests... thanx!
Oh man, stop it.... I am tired of spending money!!!
Yes, that would be a good experiment but I am happy with 10 fps in mechanical shutter. It is working out fine for me.
What I would really like to know is what is the camera negotiating with the battery? That, seems to me, is what then determines what the camera will then do. I doubt the camera just fires away and when it does not get what it is drawing from the battery, it just slows down... that could cause a lock up or something not good.
p.6 #9 · R5/R6 - Battery / Coupler / Charging in the field - lessons & questions
Bruce n Philly wrote:
Great tests... thanx!
Oh man, stop it.... I am tired of spending money!!!
Yes, that would be a good experiment but I am happy with 10 fps in mechanical shutter. It is working out fine for me.
What I would really like to know is what is the camera negotiating with the battery? That, seems to me, is what then determines what the camera will then do. I doubt the camera just fires away and when it does not get what it is drawing from the battery, it just slows down... that could cause a lock up or something not good.
I'm tired of spending money, too. Fortunately, these things aren't highly priced, and my curiosity gets the better of me sometimes. Those Neewer NH batteries are stocked again at Newegg and Amazon, so I grabbed another and my last one.
p.6 #11 · R5/R6 - Battery / Coupler / Charging in the field - lessons & questions
EB-1 wrote:
Does anyone have scope traces of the voltage at the camera in use? Reading all this again, I'm not so convinced that the power supply setup is optimal or even reliably safe in the long term. The USB power banks are not designed for the purpose being implemented. I'm especially interested in the transient response as the load changes.
EBH
Data!
Go ahead and post your conclusions... or interpretation of the data. My intent was to show worst case.
Some observations:
- Charging is drawing at 5 volts.. so this tells me you can hook up any old power brick, PD or non-PD as they put out 5 volts (the old USB standard)
- If you have a PD brick, it will negotiate a higher voltage (5 to charge, 9 to run) and therefore will go ahead and draw the amps. This may explain why it may not work with lower power bricks assuming it is negotiating a higher voltage.. if it can't get it... it assumes a simple 5volt charging brick.
- 2 amps at 9 volts... wow, that is alodda juice! This is what is probably behind the white and flashing white H.
- The camera and battery are clearly talking to each other and negotiating voltage... either 5 or 9 depending on the camera state. This is beauty and value of PD protocol in action.
- Using Ohms Law and rounded values from the table below, it appears the minimum watts to run this camera is 20 watts. 2Amps * 9Volt = 18 watts
BTW, I don't know what the testing instrument drew or how its draw is manifested in the display.
p.6 #12 · R5/R6 - Battery / Coupler / Charging in the field - lessons & questions
So, what does this all mean in layman's terms? Are PD power banks reliably safe to use in long term, including more powerful and latest 90W/3000mAh PD power bank?
p.6 #13 · R5/R6 - Battery / Coupler / Charging in the field - lessons & questions
SSO-Images wrote:
So, what does this all mean in layman's terms? Are PD power banks reliably safe to use in long term, including more powerful and latest 90W/3000mAh PD power bank?
I dunno....
The manual denotes the camera will run from the C port... this was a purposeful design by Canon. Using a PD battery brick is not a hack, it is not a trick... it is speaking to and delivering to the C port what it wants.. and the camera was designed to run on that.
As I understand the electrical dynamics of these systems... volts are like the language and is negotiated by the PD-to-PD protocol ... the current (in amps) is drawn, not pushed to a device. The capacity or storage of a battery is the amps it can provide in both amount at once and over time. Capacity is not pushed to a device, but drawn by the device. So as long as a PD device and a PD battery negotiate terms......
Another example is your home electrical system. When you plug in a device, the capacity of the electrical grid is not pushed into the device.. it would explode. You have 15 or 20 amp circuits at your wall outlets.. these do not provide 20 amps, but the potential to provide it should your device draw it (over a steady 120 volts, the North American standard). So... large capacity batteries are fine. Just make sure you buy a PD battery otherwise, your camera will assume the old USB standard of 5 volts and will only charge itself, not run itself.... the chart above shows it needs higher voltage and high amps to do that.
I will not stop using mine. Works and is cheap. Why would I buy a bag of expensive batteries for?
p.6 #14 · R5/R6 - Battery / Coupler / Charging in the field - lessons & questions
While trying to find some relevant info on this topic, I came across this and the only one that touches on the subject of camera's voltage input spec. Skip the Quora question and go straight to Yuan Gao's response. I believe the camera body he's discussing is 5D IV with 8v spec. Our R5 is 9v.
p.6 #15 · R5/R6 - Battery / Coupler / Charging in the field - lessons & questions
SSO-Images wrote:
While trying to find some relevant info on this topic, I came across this and the only one that touches on the subject of camera's voltage input spec. Skip the Quora question and go straight to Yuan Gao's response. I believe the camera body he's discussing is 5D IV with 8v spec. Our R5 is 9v.
Good link.... thanx! .... Gao's comments are non-PD protocol. In other words, PD protocol makes everything way safer because the voltage is negotiated not assumed.
"Correct" voltage between batteries and devices are commonly controlled by the form factor.. what a battery looks like (size/shape) and its terminals. So it is hard to stick a dangerous battery into a device. With USB cables having all kinds of shapes and adapters... things can be a bit more complicated... something PD eliminates.
Gao notes that good designs take into account variances, overages and underages. He is correct of course. I did not want to wade into those "quality" waters as it leaves speculation as to the quality of our cameras and quality of the batteries we connect into the equation... and we all know what happens when someone casts doubt on a black box. We are all concerned about dangers and that is why we read things like "... not going to fry a $4000 camera" and the like. This is healthy caution but from ignorance. The more I became educated on PD and our cameras, the less afraid I was at experimenting.
I noted in a previous post how unreliable or flaky battery power can be given a full charge, dissipated charge, age, and then finally fizzling out. A device must take this into account. PD takes a huge variable out of the system as battery and device are now smart with the default being the old, low, safe USB standard of 5 volts. By the way, all standards have a tolerance of + or - associated with them for all kinds of reasons.
p.6 #16 · R5/R6 - Battery / Coupler / Charging in the field - lessons & questions
Got my field configuration complete.
I purchased the battery clamp, screwed that to cheepo-Chineeso Arca clamp that I clamp to the Arca plate under my camera body. Works fabulously. Thanx SSO-Images!!!
Tips: note how the battery clamp is offset with the cheapo clamp... the Arca screw knob interferes with the clamp... being offset is fine. I am not posting the link to the cheepo-Chineeso clamp.. about $10 on eBay.. there are a gazillion of them out there. just make sure it has a few different 1/4" screw holes to allow you to offset the battery clamp.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
Note the little strain relief gizmo on the side of the camera that prevents damage from whacking the cable.... this gizmo is provided by Canon in the R5 box.
Four pieces: Battery, battery clamp, cheepo-Chineeso Arca clamp, USB C-to-C cable (comes with R5 camera in box). Note the cheep-Chineeso clamp has multiple 1/4" holes to allow the clamp to be offset... important to keep the knurled screw from binding against the clamp.
http://www.travelthroughpictures.com/bdd/photostuff/BattHold2.jpg
Update: Just replaced the USB C-to-C cable with an approx 8" shortie... and has two 90 degree plugs. Cheepie from eBay... I warmed the cable and bent it to be a perfect flat fit. The 90 degree plug lays the cable flat against the camera and I have eliminated the Canon strain relief thingy. Nice.
p.6 #18 · R5/R6 - Battery / Coupler / Charging in the field - lessons & questions
Just wanted to add,
Amazon is selling TWO Anker with the model number 26800.
I made the mistake of assuming the one I was getting was the same, just minus the charger (I already have a good fast charger)
Well it isn't, and it can't do this trick. It was rated only 30, vs 45, and had no USB C ports. Maybe an older model. I should have seen it was different but did not.
They got me the right one to my door the next day amazingly, and it works just as described!
p.6 #19 · R5/R6 - Battery / Coupler / Charging in the field - lessons & questions
Anker has a Powercore and a Powercore+ power bank in the 26.8Ah capacity.
I have many of the Powercore/+, including the 26.8Ah version. The Powercore+ are good because they have a large number of indicators of power level (10 for that model). I'd never carry it into the field due to the heavy weight.
p.6 #20 · R5/R6 - Battery / Coupler / Charging in the field - lessons & questions
EB-1 wrote:
Anker has a Powercore and a Powercore+ power bank in the 26.8Ah capacity.
I have many of the Powercore/+, including the 26.8Ah version. The Powercore+ are good because they have a large number of indicators of power level (10 for that model). I'd never carry it into the field due to the heavy weight.
EBH
Three things to consider (already noted in this thread, summary here for new readers):
1 - Having a Canon (or Canon-like) battery charger that accepts a USB plug will allow you to charge spare batteries in the field with your power banks. Leave them on the seat of your car... you will always have 100% charged batteries.
2 - If you are in say a driving around situation, you can have your power bank plugged directly into your camera sitting on your car seat and charge that internal battery (or batteries if you have a grip). Just shut the camera off, plug it in, and you will have fully charged battery in your camera when you are ready to shoot.
3 - If the power bank is PD, and can deliver the wattage (not capacity, over 30+ watts), you can run the camera directly off of the power bank (the whole point of this thread) but then you will need to support the battery in some way when shooting... the biggest negative to this whole thing.
