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Archive 2020 · R5/R6 - Battery / Coupler / Charging in the field - lessons & questions

  
 
EB-1
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p.3 #1 · R5/R6 - Battery / Coupler / Charging in the field - lessons & questions


All the work you did is really interesting. I was doing the math and a 20,000mAh battery pack has about 74Wh compared to 16Wh for each LP-E6NH. Considering the power conversion and charging losses it's less than four charges. A large external battery pack makes sense if one needs power continuously for astro or other purposes, but spare LP-E6NH batteries would weigh a lot less and take less space in the field than all that other stuff.

There is also a proposed Kickstander extended battery with >27Wh that fits directly in the camera.

EBH



Nov 20, 2020 at 07:42 PM
Bruce n Philly
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p.3 #2 · R5/R6 - Battery / Coupler / Charging in the field - lessons & questions


Honestly, I don't know how much that 20000 unit I have can charge.... but I can make some real world assumptions based on my experience. No real electrical science here.. but....

My first day out, let's say I was out for about 6 hours... lite shooting.. lotsa waiting... then tracking and bursting. The battery was dead. If I was doing heavy shooting, it would have died way before that.... but.. let's say 6 hours. I have been out 4-5 times since for longer times in the day. In all those days of use, I left the scene with around 90% battery from the on/off charging all day.... every day, the Anker battery showed full. It only has four dot LEDs, so it was less than 25% depleted... I suspect way less.

So being conservative, I suspect a minimum of five full charges...maybe you are correct, less than four... seems more to me.... but really, all I am trying to do is not run out in a day and not be too inconvenienced... Oh, and and manual denotes that you must have over 60% battery to get full burst speeds.... that is a high charge in the battery! So, I never want to drop under 60%.. why would anyone want to have a de-featured camera when the battery is less than 60%?

Doing the dollar math, 1 Anker was $50 and four extra Canon batteries are $320 total. The dollar math is my biggest concern.

If you shoot from a tripod, like I have been doing the past two weeks, then strapping the battery under the camera is no big deal at all. It works and is cheap.

For shooting say a handheld portrait session, this setup will not work at all. So for that, I will get a USB charger like arbitrage has, plug it into the Ankar battery, and one extra battery. Since it appears it charges at about the same pace as solid use (maybe...real use it charges faster), I can flip back and forth. Still a pretty cheap, workable solution.

Of course, when we have some more data about non-Canon batteries that actually emulate NH and get green H+ performance, then it gets more interesting.... I am waiting for this.

I still want a pure-continous power solution in the field...no battery flipping, no grip, camera options set to the most convenient and power hungry.... I gotta believe it is possible. Cheap.

Peace
Bruce in Philly



Nov 20, 2020 at 08:17 PM
EB-1
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p.3 #3 · R5/R6 - Battery / Coupler / Charging in the field - lessons & questions


What is the specific requirement for the LP-E6NH compared to LP-E6N, e.g., is there an ID signal sent to the camera from the battery pack or does the camera require significantly lower impedance/higher voltage, etc.?

EBH



Nov 20, 2020 at 09:23 PM
JoeTomasone
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p.3 #4 · R5/R6 - Battery / Coupler / Charging in the field - lessons & questions


Bruce n Philly wrote:
So.... what I need to do is buy that 45W Anker.... but not yet. I want to hear from others about this 45W Anker. It is expensive and comes with a charger. I don't need the charger and I can't find one without the charger.... this must be new stuff.... so I will wait for more information and the price of those 45W Ankers to come down.



There is a cheaper one without a charger on Amazon from a different manufacturer somewhere (I don't remember what brand and don't have a link handy - sorry) but I went with the Anker because I trust the brand.




Nov 20, 2020 at 11:06 PM
JoeTomasone
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p.3 #5 · R5/R6 - Battery / Coupler / Charging in the field - lessons & questions


Here's a post I made on FB in an R5 group about the battery pack:

For those of you who never seem to have enough battery for your Canon R5 and don't want to carry lots of spares, I can confirm that an external battery pack DOES indeed power the camera IF the battery pack has a USB-C output that supports Power Delivery (PD) of at least 45W.
Note that I do not have nor did I test a 36W PD battery, but I did test an 18W one and it will NOT work. However, the 18W WILL charge the internal batteries when the camera is OFF. It will not provide any power while it is ON. All of this was determined with a USB-C power meter measuring the current going to the camera from the battery pack. (FYI, the R5 consumes about 1.42a in 20fps electronic burst mode and about 320ma with back screen on and otherwise idle).
So, my rig for those multi hour, multi-game days now includes an external 45W PD (Anker Powercore+ 28600, which right now it $10 off plus a $30 coupon on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/.../ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01...) which for the moment I will simply shove in my back pocket until and unless I can come up with a more elegant solution to affix it to my monopod or belt or something.
This is a game changer for me, and instead of buying lots of expensive Canon batteries or buying, testing, and returning the third party batteries which VERY rarely have the power capacity they advertise (and no, I'm not joking, I've got the data to back it up - from Wasabi to no-name Amazon cheapies, all of them were - shall we charitibly say - "mislabeled").
So, if battery life is a concern for you, here's a solution that makes sense to me. Yes, you'll have a USB-C cable sticking out the left side, but it's a small price to pay for never having to worry about battery life ever again.


Michael Blumfield
How long will that Anker last powering your camera before it needs to be recharged?


Joe Tomasone
Well, this is all gonna be back-of-the-napkin math since there are conversion factors I don't know and the camera's current consumption is not constant, but that pack is 97.28Wh, so it would yield 19.45Ah @5v, but if we factor a 20% conversion loss, that's 15.56 Ah.
I estimated current consumption averages that are probably reasonably accurate:
Screen off (power saving mode): 230ma
Menu screen on: 290ma
(These two are the only two constant current consumption figures I got, the rest are averages)
Screen on, idle: 500ma avg.
EVF on, idle: 850ma avg.
Electronic burst: 1300ma avg.
1st curtain burst: 1500ma avg.
Mechanical burst: 1700ma avg.
So that would work out to about 9.15 hours of mechanical burst shooting @ 1.7Ah (and I mean holding the button for 10 hours straight), or 31 hours idle - so somewhere in between 9 and 31 hours depending on how much you shoot versus waiting to shoot, what shutter mode you choose, if you have power saving on, etc. If we say that you'll be firing 1st curtain bursts 70% of the time (say for a football game), that would work out to an average of 1100mah, so that would work out to 14 hours. Shooting less of the time - like in a studio - would obviously increase the battery longevity. And - it must be said- you'd still have the in-camera battery(ies) if you ever managed to run the Anker out. That's unlikely.
I will probably use the Anker when covering sports or when I have a full day of shooting anything, and go without when I won't be shooting as much. I will keep it in the bag just in case, since I can always use it or recharge the in-camera batteries with it (or my phone, or power my iPad) should the need arise.



Nov 20, 2020 at 11:12 PM
garydavidjones
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p.3 #6 · R5/R6 - Battery / Coupler / Charging in the field - lessons & questions


Amazon shows weight of Anker Powercore to be
1.6 pounds which about weight of R5 camera (with battery)
Might be cheaper to buy NH batteries & grip than paying a chiropractor for pulled muscle or ER for treating effects of
your electrocution
JoeTomasone wrote:
Here's a post I made on FB in an R5 group about the battery pack:

For those of you who never seem to have enough battery for your Canon R5 and don't want to carry lots of spares, I can confirm that an external battery pack DOES indeed power the camera IF the battery pack has a USB-C output that supports Power Delivery (PD) of at least 45W.
Note that I do not have nor did I test a 36W PD battery, but I did test an 18W one and it will NOT work. However, the 18W WILL charge the internal batteries
...Show more



Nov 20, 2020 at 11:34 PM
Bruce n Philly
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p.3 #7 · R5/R6 - Battery / Coupler / Charging in the field - lessons & questions


Joe,

Fabulous! Thanx for the work and the data... I was starting to think I was out in the weeds looking for my golf ball while the rest played on through.

So, as I posted the other day, the Canon DR-E6 dummy battery, connected to my weaker Anker battery, via the Gonine converter, presents a Green H+ and powers the camera fine (at least my bench tests), but shuts down under continuous shooting of mechanical and 1st curtain shutters (possibly due to lack of juice). It appears to work fine with electronic shutter although I don't know the real frame rate.

You may want to try this out but requires cutting the Canon socket and soldering up the Gonine one.... and about $50 more dollars in parts. The gotcha may be that the Gonine won't pass the current although I have no evidence of this.

Thanx again!

Gary, regarding the weight... well I never added up the equivalent weight of Canon batteries to compare, it is not all that bad. And besides, there are trade offs with all of these approaches. Again, my, and apparently Joe's, objective is to have continuous juice with no worries and full camera capabilities. What is wrong with this goal?

Canon: C'mon guys, you put the tech into the camera, describe the solution! Or sell a battery pack (expensive I will bet).

Peace
Bruce in Philly



Nov 21, 2020 at 09:17 AM
JoeTomasone
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p.3 #8 · R5/R6 - Battery / Coupler / Charging in the field - lessons & questions


garydavidjones wrote:
Amazon shows weight of Anker Powercore to be
1.6 pounds which about weight of R5 camera (with battery)
Might be cheaper to buy NH batteries & grip than paying a chiropractor for pulled muscle or ER for treating effects of
your electrocution



5v isn't going to electrocute anyone.

I keep the battery in my back pocket, and never even notice the weight. The cable doesn't even get in the way. All in all, I'm quite happy with the solution and it's COTS plug-and-play, so I could literally go to Best Buy and replicate it immediately if I had to. BTW, I do have the battery grip and two batteries, so that's not the issue - I just like not having to worry about keeping them charged when I am shooting 7 games in a row on a Saturday - the culling is stressful enough!


I found the cheaper battery pack with no charger: https://www.amazon.com/Portable-RAVPower-20000mAh-High-Capacity-Compatible/dp/B082PGS78L/ref=pd_rhf_ee_s_pd_crcd_0_2/137-2665490-9965954?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B082PGS78L&pd_rd_r=6be0ce63-08b2-4b5f-b63b-7e4e7b828a81&pd_rd_w=HGMbU&pd_rd_wg=mEueB&pf_rd_p=8019ba47-0a12-4976-b76b-5c932d60db6f&pf_rd_r=CPMD2S3EE0G74V0KFVKR&psc=1&refRID=CPMD2S3EE0G74V0KFVKR






Nov 21, 2020 at 10:55 AM
Bruce n Philly
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p.3 #9 · R5/R6 - Battery / Coupler / Charging in the field - lessons & questions


JoeTomasone wrote:
5v isn't going to electrocute anyone.

I keep the battery in my back pocket, and never even notice the weight. The cable doesn't even get in the way. All in all, I'm quite happy with the solution and it's COTS plug-and-play, so I could literally go to Best Buy and replicate it immediately if I had to. BTW, I do have the battery grip and two batteries, so that's not the issue - I just like not having to worry about keeping them charged when I am shooting 7 games in a row on a Saturday - the culling is
...Show more

Slight correction Joe, volts don't kill amps do. But yes, these batteries will not kill you. I do think it would be a fun experiment to place your tongue across the leads.... fun to watch.... not experience. You can try this at home with any battery... 9 volt batteries are easy... fun joke as a kid.... or an fast easy way to see if a battery is dead.

Regarding that battery.... Only $44.... hmm.... hmmm....... hmmmm....

Update: I ordered it! I am in deep so what the heck.... will report back.

Peace
Bruce in Philly




Nov 21, 2020 at 11:07 AM
Bruce n Philly
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p.3 #10 · R5/R6 - Battery / Coupler / Charging in the field - lessons & questions


UPDATE:

Amazon delivered the RavPower battery to me in 8 hours!!! Unbelievable.

Does it work?

Yes! I am getting full 20 fps and a green H+ in Mechanical with the RavPower-Gonine-Canon dummy battery combo.

However, the camera will not shoot continuous in mechanical shutter. It fires for a second or so then stops. While this is not good, the camera just works. I have not taken it out in the field today, but will next week so stay tuned for a confirmation day of shooting outside.

So... open issues.... Since the Gonine converter used a different connector to attache the dummy battery than the Canon, I cut the Gonine and Canon connectors and soldered up the correct combination.

A question I didn't think of answering, is would I have gotten 20 fps with the Gonine dummy battery in the first place? Like a dope, I did not try as I saw the green H+ and went ahead with my surgery. Since it won't fire mechanical continuous, the green H+ may not be relevant anymore and therefore the Canon dummy may not be necessary and the Gonine dummy would be fine. So... if you want to give this all a try, buy the battery, the Gonine, and a wall charger. All in for about $100 and no need to swap batteries all day and no need for power saving settings or features (again I will confirm next week).

Given the camera is not working perfectly, I can't recommend this... plus I need a few days in the field to actually ensure this works for my shooting. But here are the pieces parts anyway:

Battery: https://www.amazon.com/Portable-RAVPower-20000mAh-High-Capacity-Compatible/dp/B082PGS78L/
Gonine converter: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08GPC2FKB/
Wall Charger: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PBCKZZ4/
Canon DR-E6 dummy battery: https://www.amazon.com/Canon-DR-E6-Coupler-Digital-cameras/dp/B001KBZ3Q4/

Or check out Joe's prior post and get an Anker battery/charger combo.

Another option I will try out is Joe's configuration without the Gonine, just straight battery into the USB port in the camera. If I can shoot 20fps all day, then the Gonine is not needed.

At a minimum, we now have two options for powering our cameras with a high-capacity battery pack.

Joe: Thanx for the battery find.
Joe: Question: I hooked this higher-power Rav battery up to the camera via USB C, and ... well how do you know it is running off of the external battery and not the internal battery? I can't find any indicator.

Peace
Bruce in Philly



Nov 21, 2020 at 10:03 PM
ted1000
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p.3 #11 · R5/R6 - Battery / Coupler / Charging in the field - lessons & questions


Bruce n Philly wrote:
Joe: Question: I hooked this higher-power Rav battery up to the camera via USB C, and ... well how do you know it is running off of the external battery and not the internal battery? I can't find any indicator. Peace Bruce in Philly


Not proof that it's not running off the internal battery but with the 45W Anker plugged-in the battery indicator on the R5 "greys out".

You could shoot a lot and see if the LP-E6NH runs down.

Ted



Nov 21, 2020 at 10:26 PM
Bruce n Philly
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p.3 #12 · R5/R6 - Battery / Coupler / Charging in the field - lessons & questions


ted1000 wrote:
Not proof that it's not running off the internal battery but with the 45W Anker plugged-in the battery indicator on the R5 "greys out".

You could shoot a lot and see if the LP-E6NH runs down.

Ted


Thanx Ted.... so if you are interested in full camera performance, mechanical, 1st curtain, and electronic shutter, then maybe it is best to run off of the NH battery, and use a lower power Anker or RavPower battery to just charge. These higher batteries will want to run the camera. Hmmm....

Still some experimenting to do.

Peace
Bruce in Philly



Nov 21, 2020 at 10:32 PM
ted1000
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p.3 #13 · R5/R6 - Battery / Coupler / Charging in the field - lessons & questions


All the high quality video modes (8K, 4K120, etc) appear to work with the 45W Anker. Along with an Atomos Ninja V and a large capacity SSD you should be able to shoot long videos (though the Atomos doesn't support 8K and 4K120)

Memory and battery have been the limiting factors for me in shooting long videos NOT overheating.

Ted



Nov 21, 2020 at 10:51 PM
JoeTomasone
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p.3 #14 · R5/R6 - Battery / Coupler / Charging in the field - lessons & questions


Bruce n Philly wrote:
Joe: Thanx for the battery find.
Joe: Question: I hooked this higher-power Rav battery up to the camera via USB C, and ... well how do you know it is running off of the external battery and not the internal battery? I can't find any indicator.

Peace
Bruce in Philly


You're most welcome.

The battery indicator on the screen turns grey from green when external power is being used.

ted1000 wrote:
You could shoot a lot and see if the LP-E6NH runs down.
Ted


It doesn't. 10k frames later the two batteries in my grip were at 98 and 99 percent.




Nov 22, 2020 at 03:18 PM
Flowernut
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p.3 #15 · R5/R6 - Battery / Coupler / Charging in the field - lessons & questions


As I understand it, plugging into usb "C" charges when the camera is turned off and does not run the camera when camera is turned on. Is that correct?

When taking a bunch of pictures for endurance run, is that without turning off camear or is camera being turned off between pictures.



Nov 23, 2020 at 08:58 AM
ted1000
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p.3 #16 · R5/R6 - Battery / Coupler / Charging in the field - lessons & questions


The 45W Anker appears to run the camera when turned on with the only changes in that the camera's battery indicator greys out and the H+ turning from green to white (in mechanical shutter). This is without a grip. I'm hoping to have the time later this week to shoot more to confirm this.

It definitely charges the battery when the camera is off. It took 2 hours to charge a battery that was down to about 20%.

Joe: It sounds like you are using a grip. Have you run the camera by external battery without the grip?



Nov 23, 2020 at 09:28 AM
mikeinctown
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p.3 #17 · R5/R6 - Battery / Coupler / Charging in the field - lessons & questions


I don't get the whining. Spend $4,000 on a camera but bitch that the batteries cost $80. Use the grip and have a pair of batteries plus a backup set or two. Spend $400 on a CFE card but not batteries. Battery life for me is no issue and I have both GPS and WiFi turned off. I also have the rear VF set at the high refresh rate. If it is colder outside, spend $12 a buy a box of handwarmers and keep them in your pocket with the batteries and keep them warm to get max power output.


Nov 23, 2020 at 10:04 AM
ted1000
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p.3 #18 · R5/R6 - Battery / Coupler / Charging in the field - lessons & questions


No whining (or bitching) here. For me this has NOTHING to do with cost. Some of my projects require staying in a blind for a few days. Some of my projects require shooting long format video without having to stop to change batteries. Some of my projects are very long timelapses where I'm not present to change batteries. People who shoot astro (and are not near AC) could benefit from an external battery. I'm happy for you that you don't have these requirements.

Ted



Nov 23, 2020 at 10:29 AM
Bruce n Philly
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p.3 #19 · R5/R6 - Battery / Coupler / Charging in the field - lessons & questions


What interests me, is the following:

1 - Convenience... I find velcroing an external battery to my tripod a wonderful convenience with no downside
2 - Saving real money with no downside
3 - Turning my camera up to "11".. no power saving modes, less waking up, better performance that is really needed when a bird bursts from a treeline and the camera has to wake up
4 - Discovering the quirks and oddities from the Canon engineers as they clearly put features in the camera that are either not well explained in the manual or just plain incomplete. Given the USB-C, and dummy battery options they built into this thing, I speculate that Canon is working on an external battery product... just a guess. I mean really, you can run the camera via the USB-C port... that is big and Canon did not have to turn that on or left it out completely.. they could have just left it as a charging option... especially since Canon does not make an external battery or even an AC option to run the camera via this port... but yet you can......

Peace
Bruce in Philly

Edited on Nov 23, 2020 at 10:53 AM · View previous versions



Nov 23, 2020 at 10:42 AM
ted1000
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p.3 #20 · R5/R6 - Battery / Coupler / Charging in the field - lessons & questions


Plus I still haven't figured out how to charge my phone and laptop with a LP-E6NH

Ted



Nov 23, 2020 at 10:47 AM
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