fredmiranda.com
Login

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Sony Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3              45              47              58       59       end
  

Archive 2020 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)

  
 
DavidBM
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.46 #1 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)


Viramati wrote:
A strange release really for Sony. I have always preferred smaller cameras ever since I started out with an Olympus OM1 but I think apart from the full frame sensor I would though anyone would be better off with the the A6600 which though being apsc seems to me to offer better usability. I certainly won't be buying


I’m mystified about how the A6600 offers better usability.
This camera has an exposure compensation dial, and is just a touch more comfortable to hold than A6600.

Other than that, better IQ is the only difference.

If you want small, and I know not everyone does, I doubt there is a whole lot that could be done to keep it this small and have better usability (of course lots of small things would make little difference to size individually, and individually improve usability, by add em all together ..... and you are back to the A7 full size model!)



Sep 16, 2020 at 02:00 AM
philip_pj
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.46 #2 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)


In the motorcycle world we call this kind of product a 'parts bin special'. They took bits from here and there, but it lacks overall coherence and people are suspicious of it, they sense it's weird.

It looks like a camera that does not know what it wants to be. Some parts are good however. But the whole is less here than the sum of its parts. Some might get a small prime or two out of it - the V lenses!



Sep 16, 2020 at 02:31 AM
DavidBM
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.46 #3 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)


philip_pj wrote:
In the motorcycle world we call this kind of product a 'parts bin special'. They took bits from here and there, but it lacks overall coherence and people are suspicious of it, they sense it's weird.

It looks like a camera that does not know what it wants to be. Some parts are good however. But the whole is less here than the sum of its parts. Some might get a small prime or two out of it - the V lenses!


Actually even though I’m not in the market for it, I think it’s about as far from a parts bin special as one could be.
The specifications are nothing special .. the whole point is shrinking.

And that shrinking requires entirely new parts. The new monocoque mag body cast in one piece, and entirely new miniature FF IBIS system, a new compact shutter assembly, new viewfinder optics to fit into the smaller space. It’s clear there has been serious development work, work justified by it being the beginning of a new series (which hopefully will bring the higher res version I’ll buy for multi day hiking.

Many people who have for a long time anted a smaller compact but still full frame ILC are rejoicing, some of them even here.

What surprises me is that so many people who clearly were never in the market for something like this are so upset by it.

Maybe some of them were hoping for something else: either a cheap entry level camera with worse build like an Early A6k series With FF sensor, or maybe something every bit as fully featured as the A74 is meant to be, but with a rangefinder positioned viewfinder (this would be no lighter or smaller than an A74 and I can’t see sony putting the same features into bodies the same size with style the only difference)

But we didn’t get either of those things, we got a fairly premium build and mainstream specs in a body which has compromises that are likely all more or less necessary for its size and weight. I for one am happy (or will be when there is a higher res version, though the current version tempts me a little).



Sep 16, 2020 at 03:09 AM
Makten
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.46 #4 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)


Wait... Does "fully articulated" screen mean that you can't tilt it up without folding it to the side? THAT would certainly be a deal breaker. Can't find any relevant images of it.

Edit: Why would anyone want a large sensor for vlogging?

Edited on Sep 16, 2020 at 05:24 AM · View previous versions



Sep 16, 2020 at 03:32 AM
mike_the_kraken
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.46 #5 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)


curious80 wrote:
But I don't think Sony has described or marketed this as a vlogger camera
...
In any case, personally I don't care whether Sony markets this as vlogging camera or not.


I simply demonstrated how Sony markets this as a vlogger camera, which is what the other poster referenced. If you don’t care, let’s forego arguing the point.



Sep 16, 2020 at 03:35 AM
nhsonyshooter
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.46 #6 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)


DavidBM wrote:
I’m mystified about how the A6600 offers better usability.
This camera has an exposure compensation dial, and is just a touch more comfortable to hold than A6600.

Other than that, better IQ is the only difference.

If you want small, and I know not everyone does, I doubt there is a whole lot that could be done to keep it this small and have better usability (of course lots of small things would make little difference to size individually, and individually improve usability, by add em all together ..... and you are back to the A7 full size model!)


The A6600 has a larger grip. Not that the smaller one would bother me, but not sure how you think the smaller grip of the A7c is going to be more comfortable? The only real advantage the A7c has is a rear wheel. I would say the A6600 is more usable for me just based on the bigger grip and larger magnification of the EVF. Still not getting either. I'll be waiting for Sony to fix their mistakes on the next one. But at least they started down this road of a FF compact. Which I'm happy to see.



Sep 16, 2020 at 05:44 AM
nhsonyshooter
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.46 #7 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)


Makten wrote:
Wait... Does "fully articulated" screen mean that you can't tilt it up without folding it to the side? THAT would certainly be a deal breaker. Can't find any relevant images of it.

Edit: Why would anyone want a large sensor for vlogging?


The bigger question for me is. Why do these camera companies even think "Vlogging" is a big market segment?



Sep 16, 2020 at 05:52 AM
rps_23
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.46 #8 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)


DavidBM wrote:
What surprises me is that so many people who clearly were never in the market for something like this are so upset by it.


Unfortunately, I think a lot of this is just shitposting.

Everyone has to let their opinion (facts!) be known, and shit on any differing opinions in the snarkiest/most trollish way possible.



Sep 16, 2020 at 06:01 AM
DavidBM
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.46 #9 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)


nhsonyshooter wrote:
The A6600 has a larger grip. Not that the smaller one would bother me, but not sure how you think the smaller grip of the A7c is going to be more comfortable? The only real advantage the A7c has is a rear wheel. I would say the A6600 is more usable for me just based on the bigger grip and larger magnification of the EVF. Still not getting either. I'll be waiting for Sony to fix their mistakes on the next one. But at least they started down this road of a FF compact. Which I'm happy to see.


Are you sure the grip is larger on A6600? If it's larger it might be by a small margin, because it *looks* larger, I think, because the body is a bit thiner.

But In the wrong person to ask; I don't much care about grips, and preferred the original A7r grip to the big one on the A7r4. I think big grips encourage you to take the weight in your left hand rather than rest the camera on your left hand, or with larger lenses, rest the lens in your left hand. But I know I'm in a minority in this forum!



Sep 16, 2020 at 06:16 AM
jmmaher
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.46 #10 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)


Lots of complaints about what seem to be minor things. I don't know if I will buy this or not but I loved traveling with my RX1. Other than the superb lens of the RX1 this seems like a nice alternative. With the new kit lens or my old 35 2.8 or the Sigma 45 traveling with this sees like a dream. If it had more megapixels I would like it even better but that is only because I have been spoiled by the A7R4. -Jim


Sep 16, 2020 at 06:28 AM
nhsonyshooter
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.46 #11 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)


DavidBM wrote:
Are you sure the grip is larger on A6600? If it's larger it might be by a small margin, because it *looks* larger, I think, because the body is a bit thiner.

But In the wrong person to ask; I don't much care about grips, and preferred the original A7r grip to the big one on the A7r4. I think big grips encourage you to take the weight in your left hand rather than rest the camera on your left hand, or with larger lenses, rest the lens in your left hand. But I know I'm in a minority in this
...Show more

https://j.mp/2ZIaIks

It certainly is partly because the A6600 is thinner, but the grip is clearly larger and would be more comfortable. In my opinion of course. But I'm with you. A camera like this it's about small so comfort is one thing I would give up alittle on to get compact.



Sep 16, 2020 at 06:31 AM
MikeEvangelist
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.46 #12 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)


DavidBM wrote:
Are you sure the grip is larger on A6600? If it's larger it might be by a small margin, because it *looks* larger, I think, because the body is a bit thiner.


I was curious about this, so did a comparison image. a6600 grip is significantly larger.







Sep 16, 2020 at 06:36 AM
chiron
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.46 #13 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)


DavidBM wrote:
Actually even though I’m not in the market for it, I think it’s about as far from a parts bin special as one could be.
The specifications are nothing special .. the whole point is shrinking.

And that shrinking requires entirely new parts. The new monocoque mag body cast in one piece, and entirely new miniature FF IBIS system, a new compact shutter assembly, new viewfinder optics to fit into the smaller space. It’s clear there has been serious development work, work justified by it being the beginning of a new series (which hopefully will bring the higher res version I’ll buy
...Show more

I certainly am one of those rejoicing about this camera. I have wanted a smaller, handier, lighter body and lenses ever since the A7R2. It is what first drew me to mirrorless before there were FF mirrorless sensors.

The A7C is in the tradition of the Contax G2 or the Minolta CLE, but brought up to modern imaging specs while maintaining the compact size. Is this the camera to mount on a tripod in your studio or for landscaping? Not particularly (though not implausibly either). For travel, documentary, street, children, informal portraiture, hiking & camping, family & friends, candid, etc., it is a major engineering accomplishment and an exciting camera. The only thing I may wish were different is the EVF, but I will have to wait to see how it feels after using it for a while. The EVFs on the NEX-7, a6000, and a6500 never got in my way or felt like a hindrance.

Also, I don't have a body with an A73 sensor right now, and that is the sensor whose output I most prefer--so the A7C provides that, which I am going to be very pleased to have.

Finally, one of the most important and exciting things about the A7C is that it is the first in a series of compact cameras! Sony has made its commitment to the C body very clear, even instituting a line of lenses to match it. There will be other 7C bodies with additions and refinements.

There is no reason at all that a higher resolution sensor can't work in the C and I would expect to see one soon. I would hope for one around 42 mpix to fit the shooting style that is encouraged by the camera body. I would also assume (without having the engineering background to know) that A9-type refinements are also possible within the footprint that Sony has created for the 7C. No doubt Sony will judge (on the basis of real market & user research) what people like and don't like about the initial edition and will make adjustments. The EVF may or may not turn out to be something they adjust.

The point is, there is a lot more to come.

This really is a new camera line to be celebrated.



Edited on Sep 16, 2020 at 08:16 AM · View previous versions



Sep 16, 2020 at 06:45 AM
DavidBM
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.46 #14 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)


MikeEvangelist wrote:
I was curious about this, so did a comparison image. a6600 grip is significantly larger.


Indeed it is! Thanks!

Bad for grip lovers, but one thing it shows is how impressive the internals of the A7c are. They have managed to squeeze the Z battery mainly in the body it would seem, which no doubt contributes to the weight saving and can’t have been easy given how packed the internals of the camera are...



Sep 16, 2020 at 06:48 AM
raminolta
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.46 #15 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)


DavidBM wrote:
And that shrinking requires entirely new parts. The new monocoque mag body cast in one piece, and entirely new miniature FF IBIS system, a new compact shutter assembly, new viewfinder optics to fit into the smaller space. It’s clear there has been serious development work, work justified by it being the beginning of a new series (which hopefully will bring the higher res version I’ll buy for multi day hiking.

Many people who have for a long time anted a smaller compact but still full frame ILC are rejoicing, some of them even here.

What surprises me is that so many
...Show more

Maybe the difference between you and us is that we just do not buy into any BS, manufacturers may come up with: new concept, smallest blah, blah blah. A camera is not about being registered in a world record book, it is about functionality, practicality, etc.. Many people including me have always wanted a small RF body in RF form factor but they don't want a semi P&S interface. And please, I do not buy into this BS about compromises being necessary for its size and weight. I was hoping if they dropped the customized buttons, they would at least add the complete touch interface just like A7s iii to compensate for that. I find it ridiculous that this camera has been marketed for the new generation vloggers yet, it lacks a touch interface. I find it absolutely that an electronic company who wants to compete with Apple and Samsung in touch operated market of smart phones releases a $1800 camera in 2020 without a touch interface. For me it is partially the insult that Sony has thrown at us. We must be dump. They can severely cut on things and still sell it for more or less the same price (A7 iii). I don't care if some will buy it. I will not be one of them.

Edited on Sep 16, 2020 at 08:09 AM · View previous versions



Sep 16, 2020 at 07:15 AM
JVan_02
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.46 #16 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)


DavidBM wrote:
Actually even though I’m not in the market for it, I think it’s about as far from a parts bin special as one could be.
The specifications are nothing special .. the whole point is shrinking.

And that shrinking requires entirely new parts. The new monocoque mag body cast in one piece, and entirely new miniature FF IBIS system, a new compact shutter assembly, new viewfinder optics to fit into the smaller space. It’s clear there has been serious development work, work justified by it being the beginning of a new series (which hopefully will bring the higher res version I’ll buy
...Show more

I personally was convinced that this was going to be my next and perhaps last camera until I found out that not only did they nix the joystick, but also left a poor response touch panel so you can't even comfortably adjust the focus point.

Feels like a bit of cripple hammer move to me, and while I certainly would have liked one more dial the camera seems brilliant to me without that. I never wanted to get a Sigma 35 1.2, and the largest lens I've probably ever wanted to use till this point has been my 40 CF. My dream has always been a no compromise compact camera, and this is by far the best yet. If we get a joystick back or a touch panel good enough to get good functionality out of it, I'm ordering as soon as I get the funds.



Sep 16, 2020 at 07:19 AM
chiron
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.46 #17 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)


MikeEvangelist wrote:
I was curious about this, so did a comparison image. a6600 grip is significantly larger.


Nice work, Mike! But also note that your image makes clear that the total grip + body thickness that you get to wrap your hand around is the same.



Sep 16, 2020 at 07:19 AM
bjhurley
Online
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.46 #18 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)


It's possible that this question has already been addressed in the 46 pages of this thread, but can anyone comment on the A7c's suitability for use with manual lenses? I am only using manual lenses on full-frame (I have a NEX6 with some autofocus lenses for the rare occasions when I want autofocus) and I have my A7iii set up for that with a couple of custom settings on the top wheel, the AF button remapped to magnify the focus area, and the C3 button remapped to the focal length menu (for IBIS purposes). To what extent would I be able to duplicate this setup on the A7c?

After 8 years with the NEX6, the A7iii still feels a bit like a behemoth to me and I might feel more at home with the A7c.




Sep 16, 2020 at 07:23 AM
DavidBM
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.46 #19 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)


raminolta wrote:
Maybe the difference between you and us is that we just do not buy into any BS, manufacturers may come up with: new concept, smallest blah, blah blah. A camera is not about being registered in a world record book, it is about functionality, practicality, etc.. Many people including me have always wanted a small RF body in RF form factor but they don't want a semi P&S interface. And please, I do not buy into this BS about compromises being necessary for its size and weight. I was hoping if they dropped the customized buttons, they would at least
...Show more

I I guess I just don’t care how it’s marketed or who it’s aimed at or what’s ridiculous or not except insofar as it affects future availability. That all seems like a subject for marketing experts, and I’m not one,
I only care if it’s a product that I can see a use for, or a use for its successors.
As for the touch interface or lack thereof, sure there’s a good chance it will affect sales given it’s not there. Maybe they’ve done their marketing homework maybe they haven’t. Personally I don’t care as I don’t like them as I do everything at eye level (I hate putting reading glasses on using a camera) but I do care that the don’t go broke so if it’s important for marketing, pity it’s not there. Well see!

Edited on Sep 16, 2020 at 07:30 AM · View previous versions



Sep 16, 2020 at 07:26 AM
mawz
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.46 #20 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)


curious80 wrote:
Here is the dpreview article on A7c announcement including the press release, no where is it described as a vlogger camera:

https://www.dpreview.com/news/7559528471/sony-announces-compact-travel-friendly-a7c-24mp-full-frame-mirrorless-camera

In fact the only brief mention of vlogging in the whole press release is while describing the kit lens as good for vlogging.


Look for any mention of 'Creator' which is the term Sony uses for hybrid shooters with heavy video usage like Vloggers, they also refer to 'Vloggers & other creators'.

And watch the announcement stream, they showed a lot of content that's clear that it's intended for Vlogger type usage (one man video with the talent on-screen).

The camera also has certain feature gains & losses that indicate Sony sees it as a more video oriented body. Specifically adding the digital audio interface to the hotshoe while getting a gimped shutter which limits use with flash or very fast lenses for stills work. Right now the A7c is second only to the A7SIII for video capability in the Sony FE line.



Sep 16, 2020 at 07:27 AM
1       2       3              45              47              58       59       end




FM Forums | Sony Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3              45              47              58       59       end
    
 

Welcome back
Log in to your account