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  Previous versions of chiron's message #15349367 « Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798) »

  

chiron
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Re: Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)


DavidBM wrote:
philip_pj wrote:
In the motorcycle world we call this kind of product a 'parts bin special'. They took bits from here and there, but it lacks overall coherence and people are suspicious of it, they sense it's weird.

It looks like a camera that does not know what it wants to be. Some parts are good however. But the whole is less here than the sum of its parts. Some might get a small prime or two out of it - the V lenses!


Actually even though I’m not in the market for it, I think it’s about as far from a parts bin special as one could be.
The specifications are nothing special .. the whole point is shrinking.

And that shrinking requires entirely new parts. The new monocoque mag body cast in one piece, and entirely new miniature FF IBIS system, a new compact shutter assembly, new viewfinder optics to fit into the smaller space. It’s clear there has been serious development work, work justified by it being the beginning of a new series (which hopefully will bring the higher res version I’ll buy for multi day hiking.

Many people who have for a long time anted a smaller compact but still full frame ILC are rejoicing, some of them even here.

What surprises me is that so many people who clearly were never in the market for something like this are so upset by it.

Maybe some of them were hoping for something else: either a cheap entry level camera with worse build like an Early A6k series With FF sensor, or maybe something every bit as fully featured as the A74 is meant to be, but with a rangefinder positioned viewfinder (this would be no lighter or smaller than an A74 and I can’t see sony putting the same features into bodies the same size with style the only difference)

But we didn’t get either of those things, we got a fairly premium build and mainstream specs in a body which has compromises that are likely all more or less necessary for its size and weight. I for one am happy (or will be when there is a higher res version, though the current version tempts me a little).


I certainly am one of those rejoicing about this camera. I have wanted a smaller, handier, lighter body and lenses ever since the A7R2. It is what first drew me to mirrorless before there were FF mirrorless sensors.

The A7C is in the tradition of the Contax G2 or the Minolta CLE, but brought up to modern imaging specs while maintaining the compact size. Is this the camera to mount on a tripod in your studio or for landscaping? Not particularly (though not implausibly either). For travel, documentary, street, children, informal portraiture, hiking & camping, family & friends, candid, etc., it is a major engineering accomplishment and an exciting camera. The only thing I may wish were different is the EVF, but I will have to wait to see how it feels after using it for a while. The EVFs on the NEX-7, a6000, and a6500 never got in my way or felt like a hindrance.

Also, I don't have a body with an A73 sensor right now, and that is the sensor whose output I most prefer--so the A7C provides that, which I am going to be very pleased to have.

Finally, one of the most important and exciting things about the A7C is that it is the first in a series of compact cameras! Sony has made its commitment to the C body very clear, even instituting a line of lenses to match it. There will be other 7C bodies with additions and refinements.

There is no reason at all that a higher resolution sensor can't work in the C and I would expect to see one soon. I would hope for one around 42 mpix to fit the shooting style that is encouraged by the camera body. I would also assume (without having the engineering background to know) that A9-type refinements are also possible within the footprint that Sony has created for the 7C. No doubt Sony will judge (on the basis of real market & user research) what people like and don't like about the initial edition and will make adjustments. The EVF may or may not turn out to be something they adjust.

The point is, there is a lot more to come.

This is really a new camera line to be celebrated.




Sep 16, 2020 at 07:14 AM
chiron
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Upload & Sell: On
Re: Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)


DavidBM wrote:
philip_pj wrote:
In the motorcycle world we call this kind of product a 'parts bin special'. They took bits from here and there, but it lacks overall coherence and people are suspicious of it, they sense it's weird.

It looks like a camera that does not know what it wants to be. Some parts are good however. But the whole is less here than the sum of its parts. Some might get a small prime or two out of it - the V lenses!


Actually even though I’m not in the market for it, I think it’s about as far from a parts bin special as one could be.
The specifications are nothing special .. the whole point is shrinking.

And that shrinking requires entirely new parts. The new monocoque mag body cast in one piece, and entirely new miniature FF IBIS system, a new compact shutter assembly, new viewfinder optics to fit into the smaller space. It’s clear there has been serious development work, work justified by it being the beginning of a new series (which hopefully will bring the higher res version I’ll buy for multi day hiking.

Many people who have for a long time anted a smaller compact but still full frame ILC are rejoicing, some of them even here.

What surprises me is that so many people who clearly were never in the market for something like this are so upset by it.

Maybe some of them were hoping for something else: either a cheap entry level camera with worse build like an Early A6k series With FF sensor, or maybe something every bit as fully featured as the A74 is meant to be, but with a rangefinder positioned viewfinder (this would be no lighter or smaller than an A74 and I can’t see sony putting the same features into bodies the same size with style the only difference)

But we didn’t get either of those things, we got a fairly premium build and mainstream specs in a body which has compromises that are likely all more or less necessary for its size and weight. I for one am happy (or will be when there is a higher res version, though the current version tempts me a little).


I certainly am one of those rejoicing about this camera. I have wanted a smaller, handier, lighter body and lenses ever since the A7R2. It is what first drew me to mirrorless before there were FF mirrorless sensors.

The A7C is in the tradition of the Contax G2 or the Minolta CLE, but brought up to modern imaging specs while maintaining the compact size. Is this the camera to mount on a tripod in your studio or for landscaping? Not particularly (though not implausibly either). For travel, documentary, street, children, informal portraiture, hiking & camping, family & friends, candid, etc., it is a major engineering accomplishment and an exciting camera. The only thing I may wish were different is the EVF, but I will have to wait to see how it feels after using it for a while. The EVFs on the NEX-7, a6000, and a6500 never got in my way or felt like a hindrance.

Also, I don't have a body with an A73 sensor right now, and that is the sensor whose output I most prefer--so the A7C provides that, which I am going to be very pleased to have.

Finally, one of the most important and exciting things about the A7C is that it is the first in a series of compact cameras! Sony has made its commitment to the C body very clear, even instituting a line of lenses to match it. There will be other 7C bodies with additions and refinements.

There is no reason at all that a higher resolution sensor can't work in the C and I would expect to see one soon. I would hope for one around 42 mpix to fit the shooting style that is encouraged by the camera body. I would also assume (without having the engineering background to know) that A9-type refinements are also possible within the footprint that Sony has created for the 7C. No doubt Sony will judge (on the basis real market & user research) what people like and don't like about the initial edition and will make adjustments. The EVF may or may not turn out to be something they adjust.

The point is, there is a lot more to come.

This is really a new camera line to be celebrated.




Sep 16, 2020 at 07:14 AM
chiron
Offline
Upload & Sell: On
Re: Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)


DavidBM wrote:
philip_pj wrote:
In the motorcycle world we call this kind of product a 'parts bin special'. They took bits from here and there, but it lacks overall coherence and people are suspicious of it, they sense it's weird.

It looks like a camera that does not know what it wants to be. Some parts are good however. But the whole is less here than the sum of its parts. Some might get a small prime or two out of it - the V lenses!


Actually even though I’m not in the market for it, I think it’s about as far from a parts bin special as one could be.
The specifications are nothing special .. the whole point is shrinking.

And that shrinking requires entirely new parts. The new monocoque mag body cast in one piece, and entirely new miniature FF IBIS system, a new compact shutter assembly, new viewfinder optics to fit into the smaller space. It’s clear there has been serious development work, work justified by it being the beginning of a new series (which hopefully will bring the higher res version I’ll buy for multi day hiking.

Many people who have for a long time anted a smaller compact but still full frame ILC are rejoicing, some of them even here.

What surprises me is that so many people who clearly were never in the market for something like this are so upset by it.

Maybe some of them were hoping for something else: either a cheap entry level camera with worse build like an Early A6k series With FF sensor, or maybe something every bit as fully featured as the A74 is meant to be, but with a rangefinder positioned viewfinder (this would be no lighter or smaller than an A74 and I can’t see sony putting the same features into bodies the same size with style the only difference)

But we didn’t get either of those things, we got a fairly premium build and mainstream specs in a body which has compromises that are likely all more or less necessary for its size and weight. I for one am happy (or will be when there is a higher res version, though the current version tempts me a little).


I certainly am one of those rejoicing about this camera. I have wanted a smaller, handier, lighter body and lenses ever since the A7R2. It is what first drew me to mirrorless before there were FF mirrorless sensors.

The A7C is in the tradition of the Contax G2 or the Minolta CLE, but brought up to modern imaging specs while maintaining the compact size. Is this the camera to mount on a tripod in your studio or for landscaping? Not particularly (though not implausibly either). For travel, documentary, street, children, informal portraiture, hiking & camping, family & friends, candid, etc., it is a major engineering accomplishment and an exciting camera. The only thing I may wish were different is the EVF, but I will have to wait to see how it feels after using it for a while. The EVFs on the NEX-7, a6000, and a6500 never got in my way or felt like a hindrance.

Also, I don't have a body with an A73 sensor right now, and that is the sensor whose output I most prefer--so the A7C provides that, which I am going to be very pleased to have.

Finally, one of the most important and exciting things about the A7C is that it is the first in a series of compact cameras! Sony has made its commitment to the C body very clear, even instituting a line of lenses to match it. There will be other 7C bodies with additions and refinements.

There is no reason at all that a higher resolution sensor can't work in the C and I would expect to see one soon. I would hope for one around 42 mpix to fit the shooting style that is encouraged by the camera body. I would also assume (without having the engineering background to know) that A9-type refinements are also possible within the footprint that Sony has created for the 7C. No doubt Sony will judge (on the basis real market & user research) what people like and don't like about the initial edition and will make adjustments. The EVF may or may turn out to be something they adjust.

The point is, there is a lot more to come.

This is really a new camera line to be celebrated.




Sep 16, 2020 at 07:12 AM
chiron
Offline
Upload & Sell: On
Re: Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)


DavidBM wrote:
philip_pj wrote:
In the motorcycle world we call this kind of product a 'parts bin special'. They took bits from here and there, but it lacks overall coherence and people are suspicious of it, they sense it's weird.

It looks like a camera that does not know what it wants to be. Some parts are good however. But the whole is less here than the sum of its parts. Some might get a small prime or two out of it - the V lenses!


Actually even though I’m not in the market for it, I think it’s about as far from a parts bin special as one could be.
The specifications are nothing special .. the whole point is shrinking.

And that shrinking requires entirely new parts. The new monocoque mag body cast in one piece, and entirely new miniature FF IBIS system, a new compact shutter assembly, new viewfinder optics to fit into the smaller space. It’s clear there has been serious development work, work justified by it being the beginning of a new series (which hopefully will bring the higher res version I’ll buy for multi day hiking.

Many people who have for a long time anted a smaller compact but still full frame ILC are rejoicing, some of them even here.

What surprises me is that so many people who clearly were never in the market for something like this are so upset by it.

Maybe some of them were hoping for something else: either a cheap entry level camera with worse build like an Early A6k series With FF sensor, or maybe something every bit as fully featured as the A74 is meant to be, but with a rangefinder positioned viewfinder (this would be no lighter or smaller than an A74 and I can’t see sony putting the same features into bodies the same size with style the only difference)

But we didn’t get either of those things, we got a fairly premium build and mainstream specs in a body which has compromises that are likely all more or less necessary for its size and weight. I for one am happy (or will be when there is a higher res version, though the current version tempts me a little).


I certainly am one of those rejoicing about this camera. I have wanted a smaller, handier, lighter body and lenses ever since the A7R2. It is what first drew me to mirrorless before there were FF mirrorless sensors.

The A7C is in the tradition of the Contax G2 or the Minolta CLE, but brought up to modern imaging specs while maintaining the compact size. Is this the camera to mount on a tripod in your studio or for landscaping? Not particularly (though not implausibly either). For travel, documentary, street, children, informal portraiture, family & friends, candids, etc., it is a major engineering accomplishment and an exciting camera. The only thing I may wish were different is the EVF, but I will have to wait to see how it feels after using it for a while. The EVFs on the NEX-7, a6000, and a6500 never got in my way or felt like a hindrance.

Also, I don't have a body with an A73 sensor right now, and that is the sensor whose output I most prefer--so the A7C provides that, which I am going to be very pleased to have.

Finally, one of the most important and exciting things about the A7C is that it is the first in a series of compact cameras! Sony has made its commitment to the C body very clear, even instituting a line of lenses to match it. There will be other 7C bodies with additions and refinements.

There is no reason at all that a higher resolution sensor can't work in the C and I would expect to see one soon. I would hope for one around 42 mpix to fit the shooting style that is encouraged by the camera body. I would also assume (without having the engineering background to know) that A9-type refinements are also possible within the footprint that Sony has created for the 7C. No doubt Sony will judge (on the basis real market & user research) what people like and don't like about the initial edition and will make adjustments. The EVF may or may turn out to be something they adjust.

The point is, there is a lot more to come.

This is really a new camera line to be celebrated.




Sep 16, 2020 at 06:54 AM
chiron
Offline
Upload & Sell: On
Re: Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)


DavidBM wrote:
philip_pj wrote:
In the motorcycle world we call this kind of product a 'parts bin special'. They took bits from here and there, but it lacks overall coherence and people are suspicious of it, they sense it's weird.

It looks like a camera that does not know what it wants to be. Some parts are good however. But the whole is less here than the sum of its parts. Some might get a small prime or two out of it - the V lenses!


Actually even though I’m not in the market for it, I think it’s about as far from a parts bin special as one could be.
The specifications are nothing special .. the whole point is shrinking.

And that shrinking requires entirely new parts. The new monocoque mag body cast in one piece, and entirely new miniature FF IBIS system, a new compact shutter assembly, new viewfinder optics to fit into the smaller space. It’s clear there has been serious development work, work justified by it being the beginning of a new series (which hopefully will bring the higher res version I’ll buy for multi day hiking.

Many people who have for a long time anted a smaller compact but still full frame ILC are rejoicing, some of them even here.

What surprises me is that so many people who clearly were never in the market for something like this are so upset by it.

Maybe some of them were hoping for something else: either a cheap entry level camera with worse build like an Early A6k series With FF sensor, or maybe something every bit as fully featured as the A74 is meant to be, but with a rangefinder positioned viewfinder (this would be no lighter or smaller than an A74 and I can’t see sony putting the same features into bodies the same size with style the only difference)

But we didn’t get either of those things, we got a fairly premium build and mainstream specs in a body which has compromises that are likely all more or less necessary for its size and weight. I for one am happy (or will be when there is a higher res version, though the current version tempts me a little).


I certainly am one of those rejoicing about this camera. I have wanted a smaller, handier, lighter body and lenses ever since the A7R2. It is what first drew me to mirrorless before there were FF mirrorless sensors.

The A7C is in the tradition of the Contax G2 or the Minolta CLE, but brought up to modern imaging specs while maintaining the compact size. Is this the camera to mount on a tripod in your studio or for landscaping? Not particularly (though not implausibly either). For travel, documentary, street, children, informal portraiture, family & friends, candids, etc., it is a major engineering accomplishment and an exciting camera. The only thing I may wish were different is the EVF, but I will have to wait to see how it feels after using it for a while. The EVFs on the NEX-7, a6000, and a6500 never got in my way or felt like a hindrance.

Also, I don't have a body with an A73 sensor right now, and that is the sensor whose output I most prefer--so the A7C provides that, which I am going to be very pleased to have.

Finally, one of the most important and exciting things about the A7C is that it is the first in a series of compact cameras! Sony has made its commitment to the C body very clear, even instituting a line of lenses to match it. There will be other 7C bodies with additions and refinements.

There is no reason at all that a higher resolution sensor can't work in the C and I would expect to see one one soon. I would hope for one around 42 mpix to fit the shooting style that is encouraged by the camera body. I would also assume (without having the engineering background to know) that A9-type refinements are also possible within the footprint that Sony has created for the 7C. No doubt Sony will judge (on the basis real market & user research) what people like and don't like about the initial edition and will make adjustments. The EVF may or may turn out to be something they adjust.

The point is, there is a lot more to come.

This is really a new camera line to be celebrated.




Sep 16, 2020 at 06:50 AM
chiron
Offline
Upload & Sell: On
Re: Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)


DavidBM wrote:
philip_pj wrote:
In the motorcycle world we call this kind of product a 'parts bin special'. They took bits from here and there, but it lacks overall coherence and people are suspicious of it, they sense it's weird.

It looks like a camera that does not know what it wants to be. Some parts are good however. But the whole is less here than the sum of its parts. Some might get a small prime or two out of it - the V lenses!


Actually even though I’m not in the market for it, I think it’s about as far from a parts bin special as one could be.
The specifications are nothing special .. the whole point is shrinking.

And that shrinking requires entirely new parts. The new monocoque mag body cast in one piece, and entirely new miniature FF IBIS system, a new compact shutter assembly, new viewfinder optics to fit into the smaller space. It’s clear there has been serious development work, work justified by it being the beginning of a new series (which hopefully will bring the higher res version I’ll buy for multi day hiking.

Many people who have for a long time anted a smaller compact but still full frame ILC are rejoicing, some of them even here.

What surprises me is that so many people who clearly were never in the market for something like this are so upset by it.

Maybe some of them were hoping for something else: either a cheap entry level camera with worse build like an Early A6k series With FF sensor, or maybe something every bit as fully featured as the A74 is meant to be, but with a rangefinder positioned viewfinder (this would be no lighter or smaller than an A74 and I can’t see sony putting the same features into bodies the same size with style the only difference)

But we didn’t get either of those things, we got a fairly premium build and mainstream specs in a body which has compromises that are likely all more or less necessary for its size and weight. I for one am happy (or will be when there is a higher res version, though the current version tempts me a little).


I certainly am one of those rejoicing about this camera. I have wanted a smaller, handier, lighter body and lenses ever since the A7R2. It is what first drew me to mirrorless before there were FF mirrorless sensors.

The A7C is in the tradition of the Contax G2 or the Minolta CLE, but brought up to modern imaging specs while maintaining the compact size. Is this the camera to mount on a tripod in your studio or for landscaping? Not particularly (though not implausibly either). For travel, documentary, street, children, informal portraiture, family & friends, candids, etc., it is a major engineering accomplishment and an exciting camera. The only thing I may wish were different is the EVF, but I will have to wait to see how it feels after using it for a while. The EVFs on the NEX-7, a6000, and a6500 never got in my way or felt like a hindrance.

Also, I don't have a body with an A73 sensor right now, and that is the sensor whose output I most prefer--so the A7C provides that, which I am going to be very pleased to have.

Finally, one of the most important and exciting things about the A7C is that it is the first in a series of compact cameras! Sony has made its commitment to the C body very clear, even instituting a line of lenses to match it. There will be other 7C bodies with additions and refinements. There is no reason at all that a higher resolution sensor can't work in the C and I would expect to see one one soon. I would hope for one around 42 mpix to fit the shooting style that is encouraged by the camera body. I would also assume (without having the engineering background to know) that A9-type refinements are also possible within the footprint that Sony has created for the 7C. No doubt Sony will judge (on the basis real market & user research) what people like and don't like about the initial edition and will make adjustments. The EVF may or may turn out to be something they adjust.

The point is, there is a lot more to come.

This is really a new camera line to be celebrated.




Sep 16, 2020 at 06:45 AM





  Previous versions of chiron's message #15349367 « Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798) »