p.82 #1 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Steve Spencer wrote:
You do realize that:
1) This isn't the whole market just Japan
2) Even in Japan Sony's lead is a mere 4% and much of the DSLR market will move to mirrorless over time. Canon has over 50% of that market, Sony has less than 1% of that market. Do you think Canon or Sony has a better shot at those current Canon customers?
3)Canon still does not have a full set of mirrorless cameras. They are still early on in their development of mirrorless.
4)Canon is still early on in their development of lenses for mirrorless cameras.
In my view it is way way too early to say the market has decided....Show more →
Sure Canon user base is very large and stable. And given the latest latest RF mount development with better sensors and more lenses, I find it difficult to recommend anybody to jump from Canon full frame DSLR to Sony mirrorless. Unless there is a very specific reason, those folks are better served in RF mount.
But there are many other segments in the market. Regardless of brand background, anybody upgrading from crop sensor or m43 should take a long look at Sony FE. As an old Nikon shooter I also think Nikon has a tough job defending its position in camera market as, especially if they cannot fix their af and Sony continues with steady improvement. I have also hard time believing that Nikon can put out new Z glass quick enough, although adapted F glass help them in transition from F to Z.
Maybe not in the minds of people reading/writing here, but Sony has also good reputation in consumer electronics and via RX-compacts Sony cameras have come quite familiar to many casual photographers. RX-series resembles what Canon did with Ixus when digital photography was it it's infancy. Some of the owners of RX-compact will eventually want an ILCE-camera, and it is quite possible that they want Sony ILCE.
My prediction is that the duopoly is back, and future years look quite steady both in Canon and Sony camp. It is interesting to see what happens to Nikon.I think many Nikon shooters stay with their brand to the bitter end, and if they jump to another's business brand, it is more probably Sony than Canon. BTW Same with m43 community. Predictions are fun
Jan 19, 2021 at 04:09 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.82 #2 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
tuomkok wrote:
Sure Canon user base is very large and stable. And given the latest latest RF mount development with better sensors and more lenses, I find it difficult to recommend anybody to jump from Canon full frame DSLR to Sony mirrorless. Unless there is a very specific reason, those folks are better served in RF mount.
But there are many other segments in the market. Regardless of brand background, anybody upgrading from crop sensor or m43 should take a long look at Sony FE. As an old Nikon shooter I also think Nikon has a tough job defending its position in camera market as, especially if they cannot fix their af and Sony continues with steady improvement. I have also hard time believing that Nikon can put out new Z glass quick enough, although adapted F glass help them in transition from F to Z.
Maybe not in the minds of people reading/writing here, but Sony has also good reputation in consumer electronics and via RX-compacts Sony cameras have come quite familiar to many casual photographers. RX-series resembles what Canon did with Ixus when digital photography was it it's infancy. Some of the owners of RX-compact will eventually want an ILCE-camera, and it is quite possible that they want Sony ILCE.
My prediction is that the duopoly is back, and future years look quite steady both in Canon and Sony camp. It is interesting to see what happens to Nikon.I think many Nikon shooters stay with their brand to the bitter end, and if they jump to another's business brand, it is more probably Sony than Canon. BTW Same with m43 community. Predictions are fun ...Show more →
What I was responding to in what you were quoting was that contention that the market had decided and they picked Sony over Canon. That based on the BCN data from 2020 was a very weak argument, IMO, and I outlined why. I don't think there will be a duopoly with Canon and Sony. I think there will be five major players in the interchangeable lens camera (ILC) market just as there is now. I do think Canon will have the biggest share of the ILC market just as they do now. I think Sony will be in a solid second place, and I think Nikon will be in third place but as a company they are doing fine. The lenses for the Z mount are in generally very good to excellent and they already have a nice range of lenses and where they don't their F mount lenses help fill the gaps very well. The new Z6 II and Z7 II are competitive at their price points. I think Nikon users really have very little reason to switch. I think long term we can expect about a 40% market share for Canon, about 25% for Sony and about 15% for Nikon. I don't think Nikon is going away with a 15% market share. They can do just fine if they are right sized for that share of the market. The fourth "company" is really the L-mount alliance. For most sales that will mean Panasonic cameras and Sigma lenses. Panasonic has an obvious strength in video and I don't see this alliance going away either. I expect it to be less than 10% of the market, however. Finally, I don't see Fuji going away either. They won't be huge but I think they can maintain a solid 5% of the market.
I currently own two Sony cameras (A9 and A7s), one Nikon (Z7) and one Fuji (GFX 50s), and I shot Canon for years. I think all these cameras are very good (and I presume Panasonic with L-mount lenses is too). I think all the current cameras are quite capable. I just don't see a duopoly emerging, but rather a range of manufacturers that all make nice cameras and could be good choices depending on what your goals and needs are.
p.82 #6 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
RoamingScott wrote:
Guessing the A1 has made this thread a bit pointless
And now the A1 thread has been sitting at the top spot on the Canon board since the A1 announcement. Sort of like this thread was during the R5 announcement. The grass is always greener as they say....
Still the R5 actually does have a few specs that best the A1. But if I could only have one it would be the A1 until Canon releases the RF 600/4 DO.....
p.82 #7 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
The Canon is much better than Sony for image stabilization with the new RF image stabilized lenses. Canon is also much better if you want to focus stack or like using a 70-200mm, whether an f2.8 or f4 variant - You have your choice of many, all excellent, options - EF, I, EFII, RF f2.8, RF f4, all image stabilized, all excellent and the RF versions are extremely compact and lighter than Sony or Canon EF equivalents. . . . Alas, I've personally decided to stay with Sony, not because of the A1 but because I like my Sony lenses (and my Canon 70-300mm f4-f5.6L on a Sigma MC-11), I like the Sony Sensor and ergonomics (A7RIV), and I don't want to spend the next year testing lenses to find good samples of the Canon equivalents and spending a fair amount of money, only to end up with a system that has some advantages and some disadvantages. . . . Nothing's perfect. The grass is always greener. Perfect is the enemy of good enough. . .
p.82 #8 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Because I'm a bored glutton for punishment (and I don't allow myself to have multiple systems at once), I'm swapping my Sony setup for the equivalent R5 setup. Very much eager to test the 100-500 against the results I've gotten with the 100-400GM over the last few years. Honestly don't care about the ES much, so the battery weirdness with dropping shutter speed down shouldn't bite me often.
Will likely get the new RF 14-35/4 instead of the 16-35/2.8 though, since I mostly used it for landscape.
I'll pop in here after I've used it a bit with impressions, at least compared to the R4
p.82 #10 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
RoamingScott wrote:
Because I'm a bored glutton for punishment (and I don't allow myself to have multiple systems at once), I'm swapping my Sony setup for the equivalent R5 setup. Very much eager to test the 100-500 against the results I've gotten with the 100-400GM over the last few years. Honestly don't care about the ES much, so the battery weirdness with dropping shutter speed down shouldn't bite me often.
Will likely get the new RF 14-35/4 instead of the 16-35/2.8 though, since I mostly used it for landscape.
I'll pop in here after I've used it a bit with impressions, at least compared to the R4 ...Show more →
I'd take the R5 over the RIV every day of the week and twice on Sundays. Versus the A1 or A9...maybe not so much.
p.82 #14 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
The R5 does not produce any sharper Eyes in any photos I've seen. the Sony A1 nails birds eyes 99% of the time ...it's uncanny . We Sony users know that the blackout and lag free EVF, faster AF aquisition, no rolling shutter, 30FPS without battery Life restrictions is superior. Let's face it the Canon R5 is older tech...it's not up to the same standard as the A1 . And yes a stacked sensor design costs more to manufacture so of course it's more expensive...but it's the better camera for it
Pius Sullivan wrote:
If you want a sharp eye, stick to the R5.. JMO...
p.82 #15 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Agree... Although R5 is great it still does not complete with the A9 or A1 regarding AF aquisition, blackout free EVF experience and rolling shutter. And that 30FPS is so useful!
arbitrage wrote:
I'd take the R5 over the RIV every day of the week and twice on Sundays. Versus the A1 or A9...maybe not so much.
p.82 #16 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
First I'd like to say these are very nice photos. That said, nothing that any recent Sony can't do. Matter of fact plenty of hummingbird photos on this Sony forum that are just as sharp and well focused. I will also say that hummingbirds feeding remain fairly static with exception of wings...so not as Challenging as a fast BIF. I think BIF shots would be more of a challenge when it comes to perfectly focused eyes
Pius Sullivan wrote:
BEAF with the Canon R5. The R5 is not all bad Scott.
p.82 #19 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
My thoughts? Why? Like switching systems is going to make my images better? I am Glad for Canon users Canon finally is producing something worth while though. Good for them.
