p.53 #1 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
JohnDizzo15 wrote:
This guy.
I can honestly say that I have yet to shoot 4K in any of my bodies that have it or have had it (R2, R3, A9, multiple Fuji’s, and now RP etc).
Bingo !
Count me in on that. Certainly there are others.
Mystik wrote:
45MP! 20FPS! 8K Video! Make it a compact mirrorless camera! It created a lot of hype because it sounded to good to be
To the perplexing of various critics, the R5 can do most of what it was marketed to do. In fact, reviewing one of the first announcement videos, the R5, technically, seems to do 99% what was claimed. Not as long as some people would want, but it can do it .. it does have "capability" which I recall as the word shown.
As for the marketing, looking backwards, there are probably two or three different ways Canon could have marketed better, or differently.
Meanwhile, trying to correct previous marketing equals spinning wheels.
p.53 #3 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
I am still reserving judgment on these cameras until they are widely deployed by actual users, and we see how they perform in real World use cases.
I find it insincere, and a kind of hubris to pass judgement on a camera I have not seen in person, held in my hands, and tested in my uses cases. Especially in this case where reviews are all over the place in their conclusions.
I do think it is pretty clear that the launch of these two cameras has been tarnished by the issues, and the Canons marketing and positioning at launch. That is unfortunate. Even more so if the cameras live up to the claims in real use cases.
p.53 #5 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
1bwana1 wrote:
Just for fun, what it is like shooting a music video with the Canon R5,
As goofy as the premise is, it's a good example of the kind of video work people are doing on consumer grade cameras these days, and is exactly the point that quite a few posters here seem to miss.
p.53 #6 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
RoamingScott wrote:
As goofy as the premise is, it's a good example of the kind of video work people are doing on consumer grade cameras these days, and is exactly the point that quite a few posters here seem to miss.
While I understand the general sentiment, I was unaware that what they are specifically referring to in the video is common practice for those using consumer grade cameras. Specifically, 12 bit DCI 8K raw.
Again, from what I have seen, there are ways to get the job done with the R5 if not shooting 8K. It may not be ideal or as good as the competition in singular facets, but it can be done. Conversely though, the competitors are completely unable to do a lot of the things that the R5 brings to the table as a package.
I believe I've made the point previously. But the only real issue IMO, was that the marketing was geared in the wrong direction at the outset and led a lot of videographers to hope that it was something that they (deep down inside) knew that it wasn't going to be.
Personally though, I'm looking at it from a stills bias with my particular use case which I believe a number of others share. And in this case, the glass is easily more than half full.
The considerations for my use case in more concise presentation:
-Stills focused
-Currently still own EF glass that I love and want to continue using without caveats like restricted AF frame area, no continuous AF in burst, etc.
-Wanted some of the exotic RF glass
-Wanted to use all of said glass on a high res body with features similar, close to, or better than the current offerings from Sony
-Includes some interesting new features that could be very useful
-In-body raw processing (with some new processing features) on a full frame cam
-High res body to replace A7R3 to go alongside the A9
-Articulating screen
-100% frame coverage for AF
-Potentially improved IBIS and AF from R3
Those are just a few of the things rattled off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more if I do a deeper dive.
Point is, the 8K and 4k 120p are a second dessert in the grand scheme of my meal. I will most likely never use them. But the body can do them nonetheless if I ever decide to play with it. The fact that I have access to it though, means that it is better than the other offerings that feature full frame 8K raw with similar feature sets.
p.53 #7 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
That's a lot of words when "I'm looking at it from a stills bias" is buried in the middle. You're missing the point. 4k/120 is a necessity for 4k shooting, and other cameras offer it without issue.
To be fair, the R5 doesn't seem to overheat as badly with 4k/120, so it might be salvageable as a 4k/60 and 4k/120 cam only.
As a stills only cam, you're paying a heavy 8k tax at launch.
p.53 #8 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
RoamingScott wrote:
That's a lot of words when "I'm looking at it from a stills bias" is buried in the middle. You're missing the point. 4k/120 is a necessity for 4k shooting, and other cameras offer it without issue.
To be fair, the R5 doesn't seem to overheat as badly with 4k/120, so it might be salvageable as a 4k/60 and 4k/120 cam only.
As a stills only cam, you're paying a heavy 8k tax at launch.
Yes. There are options that do it without issue. But conversely, they also don’t do some of what the R5 does in the package that it’s in. Give and take.
As far as the 8K tax, the A7R4 was 3500 at launch not too long ago. Not much of a tax on the R5 IMO.
p.53 #9 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
JohnDizzo15 wrote:
Yes. There are options that do it without issue. But conversely, they also don’t do some of what the R5 does in the package that it’s in. Give and take.
As far as the 8K tax, the A7R4 was 3500 at launch not too long ago. Not much of a tax on the R5 IMO.
Why are you even comparing the R5 to an A7riv. They were designed for 2 completely different people?
p.53 #10 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
nhsonyshooter wrote:
Why are you even comparing the R5 to an A7riv. They were designed for 2 completely different people?
Most recently released body with a similar feature set from Sony. Not sure what you mean by the statement that they were designed for 2 completely different people. Please explain.
Personally, I was looking at one or the other. Just sayin’.
p.53 #11 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Why are you even comparing the R5 to an A7riv. They were designed for 2 completely different people?
Like who .. Chinese vs. Canadians?
Curious, because I've crossed paths with more Asians holding an R5 than travelers from England or Australia. Otherwise, the two bodies seem very close in many ways.
p.53 #12 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Like who .. Chinese vs. Canadians?
Curious, because I've crossed paths with more Asians holding an R5 than travelers from England or Australia. Otherwise, the two bodies seem very close in many ways.
You have international travelers in Oregon?...I live in Bend & we are discouraging all tourists.
p.53 #13 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Like who .. Chinese vs. Canadians?
Curious, because I've crossed paths with more Asians holding an R5 than travelers from England or Australia. Otherwise, the two bodies seem very close in many ways.
All the Canadians I know switched to Sony....only one guy is holding out but he will crack soon.... @Pius Sullivan
p.53 #15 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
mogul wrote:
You have international travelers in Oregon?...I live in Bend & we are discouraging all tourists.
Portland and spreading outward gets a fair number of internationals. Some for work too, due to Nike's world headquarters, Intel in Hillsboro and other businesses. But I'm in southern Oregon, and just 2 hours from here. there are countless visitors to the coast redwoods, coming all around the world. Sometimes when I go there, most people I talk to some days are from Germany, South Africa, New Zealand, England, Japan, etc..
p.53 #18 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
JohnDizzo15 wrote:
Most recently released body with a similar feature set from Sony. Not sure what you mean by the statement that they were designed for 2 completely different people. Please explain.
Personally, I was looking at one or the other. Just sayin’.
One was clearly a stills camera and the other was clearly a hybrid focused more on video specs. And please don't say the A7riv shoots video as well. Every phone or camera made the last 10 years shoots both. But people are not buying the Riv to shoot video. Canon touted the video aspects as "impossible" but true. They are not competing cameras despite what the Canon fanboys think.
Sony A7riv
"Sony’s full-frame mirrorless α7R IV reveals ever more overwhelming photographic vision, with expressive prowess once expected only in medium-format cameras, and remarkably high speed in a compact body. See how its enhanced rigidity and connectivity raise your productivity."
Canon R5
"Achieving the ‘impossible’, Canon Inc. confirms the EOS R5’s video capabilities will far exceed that of competing cameras on the market. With its ability to internally record 8K using the full width of the sensor at up to 30p, the latest Canon EOS R camera is set to redefine mirrorless with its market-leading features. In addition, in all 8K modes it will support Canon’s renowned Dual Pixel CMOS AF."
Do those sound like they are marketing to the same person? I know fanboys want desperately to be able to say their camera is better. But these 2 specifically are designed for different people.
p.53 #19 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
nhsonyshooter wrote:
One was clearly a stills camera and the other was clearly a hybrid focused more on video specs. And please don't say the A7riv shoots video as well. Every phone or camera made the last 10 years shoots both. But people are not buying the Riv to shoot video. Canon touted the video aspects as "impossible" but true. They are not competing cameras despite what the Canon fanboys think.
Sony A7riv
"Sony’s full-frame mirrorless α7R IV reveals ever more overwhelming photographic vision, with expressive prowess once expected only in medium-format cameras, and remarkably high speed in a compact body. See how its enhanced rigidity and connectivity raise your productivity."
Canon R5
"Achieving the ‘impossible’, Canon Inc. confirms the EOS R5’s video capabilities will far exceed that of competing cameras on the market. With its ability to internally record 8K using the full width of the sensor at up to 30p, the latest Canon EOS R camera is set to redefine mirrorless with its market-leading features. In addition, in all 8K modes it will support Canon’s renowned Dual Pixel CMOS AF."
Do those sound like they are marketing to the same person? I know fanboys want desperately to be able to say their camera is better. But these 2 specifically are designed at different people. ...Show more →
The A7R4 does shoot video as well, and quite competently might I add.
They may not have been marketed to the same person, but anyone who understands the craft and what these two bodies brings to the table respectively, understands that they are pretty darn similar in the type of tool they are. I welcome others to chime in if I am way off base here.
Canon's claim of the impossible is rather erroneous, but not for the reasons you state. By definition, what they have done here is exactly the opposite since they have done it.
Regardless, what Canon has done here is in fact something that no one else has done when you consider the totality of the package that is the R5 even if you are solely looking at it from a video perspective. Just because it doesn't do it without some caveats or restrictions or in a way people don't like doesn't make it not groundbreaking.
Specifically, who else is offering internal 8K recording with a full frame sensor, IBIS, 100% AF frame coverage, thousands of DPAF points that work while in 8K mode, etc etc, in a body with these dimensions? I'm certain you already know the answer to that question. The claim from Canon was never "film in 8K with no limitations or restrictions."
Lastly, not sure who you're referring to with the fanboy references. But if you're referring to me, then it should be noted that anyone who has been around these Sony forums for a long time can tell you I'm not a fanboy of anything and have been shooting everything but Canon bodies for years. As such, I've had my paws on many a rig from various companies and assess things objectively from all of them since my only desire is to get the stuff that works best for the things that I do.
Aug 12, 2020 at 08:29 PM
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p.53 #20 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
nhsonyshooter wrote:
One was clearly a stills camera and the other was clearly a hybrid focused more on video specs. And please don't say the A7riv shoots video as well. Every phone or camera made the last 10 years shoots both. But people are not buying the Riv to shoot video. Canon touted the video aspects as "impossible" but true. They are not competing cameras despite what the Canon fanboys think.
Sony A7riv
"Sony’s full-frame mirrorless α7R IV reveals ever more overwhelming photographic vision, with expressive prowess once expected only in medium-format cameras, and remarkably high speed in a compact body. See how its enhanced rigidity and connectivity raise your productivity."
Canon R5
"Achieving the ‘impossible’, Canon Inc. confirms the EOS R5’s video capabilities will far exceed that of competing cameras on the market. With its ability to internally record 8K using the full width of the sensor at up to 30p, the latest Canon EOS R camera is set to redefine mirrorless with its market-leading features. In addition, in all 8K modes it will support Canon’s renowned Dual Pixel CMOS AF."
Do those sound like they are marketing to the same person? I know fanboys want desperately to be able to say their camera is better. But these 2 specifically are designed for different people. ...Show more →
This is the first paragraph from the overview description of the camera on the Canon US website:
"The EOS R5 builds off of the powerful legacy of Canon’s full frame cameras offering next generation refinements in image quality, performance and reliability. It’s an ideal choice for a large range of photographic and cinematographic environments from weddings, portraits, sports, journalism, landscape, cinematography and more. "
I think that paragraph provides a good sense of how they are marketing the camera. Yeah, video is mentioned but it is not the only thing by any stretch that is mentioned and it is not mentioned first or emphasized more than anything else they mention.
