p.54 #1 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Steve Spencer wrote:
This is the first paragraph from the overview description of the camera on the Canon US website:
"The EOS R5 builds off of the powerful legacy of Canon’s full frame cameras offering next generation refinements in image quality, performance and reliability. It’s an ideal choice for a large range of photographic and cinematographic environments from weddings, portraits, sports, journalism, landscape, cinematography and more. "
I think that paragraph provides a good sense of how they are marketing the camera. Yeah, video is mentioned but it is not the only thing by any stretch that is mentioned and it is not mentioned first or emphasized more than anything else they mention. ...Show more →
p.54 #2 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
JohnDizzo15 wrote:
The A7R4 does shoot video as well, and quite competently might I add.
They may not have been marketed to the same person, but anyone who understands the craft and what these two bodies brings to the table respectively, understands that they are pretty darn similar in the type of tool they are. I welcome others to chime in if I am way off base here.
Canon's claim of the impossible is rather erroneous, but not for the reasons you state. By definition, what they have done here is exactly the opposite since they have done it.
Regardless, what Canon has done here is in fact something that no one else has done when you consider the totality of the package that is the R5 even if you are solely looking at it from a video perspective. Just because it doesn't do it without some caveats or restrictions or in a way people don't like doesn't make it not groundbreaking.
Specifically, who else is offering internal 8K recording with a full frame sensor, IBIS, 100% AF frame coverage, thousands of DPAF points that work while in 8K mode, etc etc, in a body with these dimensions? I'm certain you already know the answer to that question. The claim from Canon was never "film in 8K with no limitations or restrictions."
Lastly, not sure who you're referring to with the fanboy references. But if you're referring to me, then it should be noted that anyone who has been around these Sony forums for a long time can tell you I'm not a fanboy of anything and have been shooting everything but Canon bodies for years. As such, I've had my paws on many a rig from various companies and assess things objectively from all of them since my only desire is to get the stuff that works best for the things that I do....Show more →
Point is no one is buying an A7riv for the video specs.They are buying for the 61mp. Where as people that are interested in the R5 are willing to compromise alittle on MP for the added benefit of better video spec. Those simple decisions in themselves are made by two different groups of people. One that doesn't care about higher end video specs and the other that does. It doesn't make one camera better than the other. They are different tools to meet different user needs. That's why I think the comparison is silly.
Aug 12, 2020 at 08:53 PM
Steve Spencer Online • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.54 #3 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Yeah, Really. You quoted from a press release about the video and I quoted from the first paragraph from the overview description of the camera on the US website. Which quote to you think reflects more the general marketing strategy of the camera? Are they perhaps marketing the camera to different types of people in different places?
p.54 #4 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
so came across a post on Facebook by Alex phan on his experience with the R5 so far, he noted the AF still lags behind Sony. I asked him why but no response just yet. He is in fact testing the R5 and shoots both Sony A9 and A7RIV.
p.54 #5 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
nhsonyshooter wrote:
Point is no one is buying an A7riv for the video specs.They are buying for the 61mp. Where as people that are interested in the R5 are willing to compromise alittle on MP for the added benefit of better video spec. Those simple decisions in themselves are made by two different groups of people. One that doesn't care about higher end video specs and the other that does. It doesn't make one camera better than the other. They are different tools to meet different user needs. That's why I think the comparison is silly.
I think that that is a broad assumption you are making regarding the market for the respective bodies.
Like I said previously, I for one was looking at both to figure out which one I was getting to replace the R3 as my high res body. I've also previously stated a plethora of the reasons why the R5 edges out the competitors for my use case. Furthermore, I have more than a few buddies that have looked at making the exact same decision. I'm inclined to believe we are not alone as evidenced by some of the frequenters of this forum.
By the way, not sure if you are referencing something you believe I stated. But I never stated I believed the R5 was better than the R4 on any level, in any context. I was only comparing the price of two items that I was looking at and determined that one fit my needs better than the other. Anything you infer after that is a reflection of your feelings and not anything I actually said.
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Steve Spencer wrote:
Yeah, Really. You quoted from a press release about the video and I quoted from the first paragraph from the overview description of the camera on the US website. Which quote to you think reflects more the general marketing strategy of the camera? Are they perhaps marketing the camera to different types of people in different places?
p.54 #7 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Link? I'm in a couple groups with Alex and I haven't seen him mention the R5 but I'd love to hear more about his experience. I have a thread here and at DPReview about the A9/A9II vs R5 and have yet to find much feedback.
Maxxus46 wrote:
so came across a post on Facebook by Alex phan on his experience with the R5 so far, he noted the AF still lags behind Sony. I asked him why but no response just yet. He is in fact testing the R5 and shoots both Sony A9 and A7RIV.
p.54 #8 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Steve Spencer wrote:
Yeah, Really. You quoted from a press release about the video and I quoted from the first paragraph from the overview description of the camera on the US website. Which quote to you think reflects more the general marketing strategy of the camera? Are they perhaps marketing the camera to different types of people in different places?
p.54 #9 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
JohnDizzo15 wrote:
I think that that is a broad assumption you are making regarding the market for the respective bodies.
Like I said previously, I for one was looking at both to figure out which one I was getting to replace the R3 as my high res body. I've also previously stated a plethora of the reasons why the R5 edges out the competitors for my use case. Furthermore, I have more than a few buddies that have looked at making the exact same decision. I'm inclined to believe we are not alone as evidenced by some of the frequenters of this forum.
By the way, not sure if you are referencing something you believe I stated. But I never stated I believed the R5 was better than the R4 on any level, in any context. I was only comparing the price of two items that I was looking at and determined that one fit my needs better than the other. Anything you infer after that is a reflection of your feelings and not anything I actually said.
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And here I was thinking that the quote provided earlier would have been odd as an overview/opener.
p.54 #10 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
First join the A9 owners group on FB...then search for Alex Phans latest threads on R5. >Update here is one of his comments and I definitely trust him based on his skills and past reviews which were dead accurate -- "what you see is normal for R5 base on my
testing. Your eye AF will turn off it if out far. Also,
if you're seeing a bird flying far away, you want to
capture it, eye-af will not work. You will need to
use zone to grab it THEN switch back to eye-af.
It works great if the bird perch, you have it lock on
eye-af, when they take off, it will follow then off
when it pass a certain distance.
I don't think the hype on R5 will benefit wildlife
shooter like you and me,or those that shot big
slow bear, lion etc..
Alex Phan AlphaPhotography wrote:
Link? I'm in a couple groups with Alex and I haven't seen him mention the R5 but I'd love to hear more about his experience. I have a thread here and at DPReview about the A9/A9II vs R5 and have yet to find much feedback.
p.54 #11 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
nhsonyshooter wrote:
How is that fake news. It's Canon's website?
1. Please see Steve's link to the Canon US site for the R5.
2. Plucking out segments without context and then representing them to be something they're not by comparing it to something that is supposed to be like for like (a la your references to the Sony A7R4 description versus Canon R5 that you cited) to support your arguments when they are not like for like statements from the respective manufacturers.
This is precisely how fake news works. Taking small segments of things, misrepresenting them without context, and utilizing those characterizations in a way that is intended to lead others to make the inferences/conclusions you want them to arrive at aka narrative painting.
See your original post below.
I could theoretically do the same thing and send you to the Sony site's link for the A7R4 where if you scroll down, there is a section that explicitly references "Pro movie features" and then proceed to represent that here as a main focal point of Sony's marketing based on that snippet.
nhsonyshooter wrote:
One was clearly a stills camera and the other was clearly a hybrid focused more on video specs. And please don't say the A7riv shoots video as well. Every phone or camera made the last 10 years shoots both. But people are not buying the Riv to shoot video. Canon touted the video aspects as "impossible" but true. They are not competing cameras despite what the Canon fanboys think.
Sony A7riv
"Sony’s full-frame mirrorless α7R IV reveals ever more overwhelming photographic vision, with expressive prowess once expected only in medium-format cameras, and remarkably high speed in a compact body. See how its enhanced rigidity and connectivity raise your productivity."
Canon R5
"Achieving the ‘impossible’, Canon Inc. confirms the EOS R5’s video capabilities will far exceed that of competing cameras on the market. With its ability to internally record 8K using the full width of the sensor at up to 30p, the latest Canon EOS R camera is set to redefine mirrorless with its market-leading features. In addition, in all 8K modes it will support Canon’s renowned Dual Pixel CMOS AF."
Do those sound like they are marketing to the same person? I know fanboys want desperately to be able to say their camera is better. But these 2 specifically are designed for different people. ...Show more →
p.54 #12 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Maxxus46 wrote:
so came across a post on Facebook by Alex phan on his experience with the R5 so far, he noted the AF still lags behind Sony. I asked him why but no response just yet. He is in fact testing the R5 and shoots both Sony A9 and A7RIV.
He told me R5 tends to drop focus more often than A9(ii) when tracking over busy background.
p.54 #14 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
shalu wrote:
He told me R5 tends to drop focus more often than A9(ii) when tracking over busy background.
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Maxxus46 wrote:
Yes he mentioned that in another comment. But he was clear regarding R5 lags behind Sony from an AF perspective. All I need to hear about this canera.
So did he say anything about how it compares to the A7R4? The focus of the statement seems to be relative to the A9ii.
Comparing it to the A9 is way further out in the realm of apples to oranges comparisons as it has a stacked full frame sensor that remains unmatched by the entirety of the camera market to this day. Precisely why I have kept mine.
At present, I'm not looking for a 40+ megapixel body to match AF and tracking performance with my 24mp A9. I just want something better than I had in the R3, hopefully comparable to or better than the R4, and which does so with both native glass that I like along with adapted EF glass.
p.54 #15 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Steve Spencer wrote:
This is the first paragraph from the overview description of the camera on the Canon US website:
"The EOS R5 builds off of the powerful legacy of Canon’s full frame cameras offering next generation refinements in image quality, performance and reliability. It’s an ideal choice for a large range of photographic and cinematographic environments from weddings, portraits, sports, journalism, landscape, cinematography and more. "
I think that paragraph provides a good sense of how they are marketing the camera. Yeah, video is mentioned but it is not the only thing by any stretch that is mentioned and it is not mentioned first or emphasized more than anything else they mention. ...Show more →
IIRC they had corrected the description / marketing of the R5 after the whole over heating issue.
p.54 #16 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
JohnDizzo15 wrote:
Agreed. Strange times we're living in.
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Totally understand and respect that. In that sense, I would imagine that if it were me, I wouldn't be batting an eye at the R5 if those were my needs. Conversely, I also wouldn't be the guy speaking ill of the A7S3 because it couldn't shoot 45mp still images.
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I definitely understand these points as well. However, and I'm no expert here, there appears to be some info around the web from some testers now that show that at least in the 4k modes, there are much less restrictions if recording externally if you need longer run times. Also, that temperature issue works in both directions from what I have seen. If I recall correctly, the R5 has been found to be pretty much unaffected by external conditions with regard to the internal temperature. There are pros and cons to this, and clearly, the high-end video features suffer here.
Again though, as stated above, if my needs aren't met by this body or any other, I wouldn't be shopping it. I suppose this is where my disconnect is with those that have been very negatively vocal on the matter. If I need 4K in the way that many have expressed, there are a plethora of other options to include what appears to be a near perfect one in the A7S3. Conversely though (as stated above), I wouldn't be knocking said body because it doesn't shoot 45mp images or because it doesn't have over 1000 AF points across 100% of the frame, etc etc. I would just go and look for a body that better fits my needs....Show more →
For stills and your situation the R5 seems a good fit, and overall its a superb camera. If I had to pick from scratch I'm sure it will be a very worthy contender. I do use video a bit for some personal projects and travel videos so it will be interesting what software fix Canon will pull out in the future.
p.54 #18 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
JohnDizzo15 wrote:
1. Please see Steve's link to the Canon US site for the R5.
2. Plucking out segments without context and then representing them to be something they're not by comparing it to something that is supposed to be like for like (a la your references to the Sony A7R4 description versus Canon R5 that you cited) to support your arguments when they are not like for like statements from the respective manufacturers.
This is precisely how fake news works. Taking small segments of things, misrepresenting them without context, and utilizing those characterizations in a way that is intended to lead others to make the inferences/conclusions you want them to arrive at aka narrative painting.
See your original post below.
I could theoretically do the same thing and send you to the Sony site's link for the A7R4 where if you scroll down, there is a section that explicitly references "Pro movie features" and then proceed to represent that here as a main focal point of Sony's marketing based on that snippet.
Look, compare what you want. I don't think it is a great comparison and I said why. It's not worth the effort for me to even debate something like this so Good luck. Either camera will be a nice upgrade for you
So did he say anything about how it compares to the A7R4? The focus of the statement seems to be relative to the A9ii.
Comparing it to the A9 is way further out in the realm of apples to oranges comparisons as it has a stacked full frame sensor that remains unmatched by the entirety of the camera market to this day. Precisely why I have kept mine.
At present, I'm not looking for a 40+ megapixel body to match AF and tracking performance with my 24mp A9. I just want something better than I had in the R3, hopefully comparable to or better than the R4, and which does so with both native glass that I like along with adapted EF glass....Show more →
If one is already invested in Sony, I don't see a good reason to switch to the R5, instead of upgrading to the A7riv, if photos are a priority. The A7riv is an excellent camera and the much much cheaper route (we upgraded from the A7r3), if you already have a bunch of Sony/Sigma/Zeiss glass. Going for the new R lenses, additionally, will be super expensive.
The new Sigma lenses give you the best possible for your bucks for landscapes in the 14-24 DN. If you want to go lighter use the Batis 18, Sony 20/1.8 or Loxia 21. You have the 24GM, an excellent 50mm/1.4, many 85mm options and two fantastic 135mm lenses for portraits (I consider the 1.2 vs. 1.4 gain for the 85 and 50 not really important. If your skills are lacking they don't help anyway). A fantastic 35/1.2 from Sigma is available, perfect for events, all for acceptable prices. You have BIF lenses, can adapt Canon TS etc., get great battery life.
p.54 #20 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Steve Spencer wrote:
Yeah, Really. You quoted from a press release about the video and I quoted from the first paragraph from the overview description of the camera on the US website. Which quote to you think reflects more the general marketing strategy of the camera? Are they perhaps marketing the camera to different types of people in different places?
German Website:
"mit einer bahnbrechenden Videoperformance, die neu definiert, was Filmemacher von einer derart kleinen Kamera erwarten können."
The EOS R5 continues that tradition with a groundbreaking video performance that redefines what filmmakers can expect from such a small camera.
Canon Europe
"Revolutionising videography. Again."
"At Canon we’re proud of the part we’ve played in transforming filmmaking, with products like our EOS 5D series of DSLRs and Cinema EOS cameras and lenses. The EOS R5 continues this legacy, with ground-breaking video performance that redefines what filmmakers should expect from a small camera."
"A professional full-frame mirrorless flagship camera offering photographers and filmmakers high resolution stills and 8K video."
