p.50 #1 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
The Canon does seem to overheat in all 4K FF video modes too according to DPReview TV, unless you do line-skipping which reduces sensitivity and increases artifacting.
Too bad because the video quality appears to be superb when it is working.
p.50 #2 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
What happened to the box full of the Canon gear he bought?
RoamingScott wrote:
I jumped to his conclusion section because I can’t stand Matt.
“If you want a stills camera, this is a fantastic option. If you need a 4k30 camera, this is still a great option”
“If I was going to buy this camera, it would be to use 8k which I don’t already, and because it’s limited in 8k I’ll NEVER recommend it”. What? He can’t recommend it because it has a feature he doesn’t currently use? Y’all need an education about YouTubers towing the line to the company that butters their bread (Sony in Matt’s case).
Seems like a case of hearing what you want to hear. He’s also making an assumption that the A7S3 4K/120 won’t overheat.
p.50 #3 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
1bwana1 wrote:
I am predicting you will make some amazing images having unique character with that camera and lenses. I look forward to see them.
Your setup is way outside the norm however, so not very applicable to the R5s overall success and use cases.
I applaud you for seeking such qualities, and wish you great enjoyment in that pursuit.
Thanks. The lens I'm most curious to use more is the Zeiss 180mm. But I do have some some typical EF glass like Tamron 35mm VC and the Canon RF 50mm 1.2
If I was starting from scratch today, here's the kit I would probably consider
Canon R5
Canon RF 15-35mm
Canon RF 28-70mm
Canon RF 70-200mm .. or .. RF 85mm 1.2
Canon EF 135mm
Zeiss ZE 135mm Apo Sonnar
when you claim that the 300/2.8 is gods gift to photography, you should educate yourself to the fact that earlier versions of that lens are not rated at 12fps on the r5, only the latest version is... same thing with the 70-200/2.8, 500/4, 200/2.8, etc.... only the latest versions are supported at 12fps... again, it's in the r5 manual that you didn't read.
by comparison, i've put several ef-mount sigma lenses on the a9, and they were all good for 14-15fps af-c with the mc-11.
your post indicates that you fail to understand that the reason that the a9 has significantly better af than the r5 is because it has a stacked sensor... it's hard to have a conversation with people who don't know anything about sony.
Sure, call me uneducated, but I do not base my opinions on the manual or claims from the manufacturer. As a corollary, I don't repeat meaningless marketing phrases like "60 AF calculations per second". I prefer to use the gear and see for myself. Or if I cannot, I go to people who I trust and have actual real-world experience with the product.
Lets unwind your post. So shooting older lenses at < 12 fps makes it a joke? Or is it because it doesn't have a stacked sensor and therefore it has "joke" auto-focus? So if I may, following that logic, anyone who is currently shooting sports with a non-stacked sensor and using a mech shutter at 12fps or below is using a joke camera? Is that really what you're trying to say?
Um, "by comparison" to what exactly? Comparing your experience with one camera with one that you haven't used ? I am sorry, but that is not a comparison. You may call it an assumption, or informed commentary, or speculation, or maybe.... a hallucination
p.50 #5 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
How come we always resort to BIF as the stick we measure AF performance against. What about tracking the brides eyes in dim church light? How about shooting rock concert photos from the pit with changing lighting conditions. How about street photography in dark alleys. How about just tracking the eyes of the model as they strut down the runway. How about AF on the models eyes with heavy backlit lights.
There are so many more scenarios where AF is challenged than just BIF. Surely these cameras are used magnitudes more in different scenarios than shooting birds.
And I agree...what's wrong with 12fps?
Aug 08, 2020 at 06:47 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.50 #6 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
lightskyland wrote:
The Canon does seem to overheat in all 4K FF video modes too according to DPReview TV, unless you do line-skipping which reduces sensitivity and increases artifacting.
Too bad because the video quality appears to be superb when it is working.
The real answer to most (but not all) of the overheating issues is using an external monitor. That will work well for some people and not so well for others. Since I already have a couple of Atmos monitors and use them for most of my video shoot, it would work for me. Still I am more excited about the Sony A7s III than the R5. The 16-bit RAW video from the A7s III to a monitor is what looks the most appealing to me and I have zero use for 8K at this point and for any foreseeable point in the future. Of course, YMMV. I can see how some might really like the R5 for video, but it isn't for me.
p.50 #7 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
chez wrote:
How come we always resort to BIF as the stick we measure AF performance against. What about tracking the brides eyes in dim church light? How about shooting rock concert photos from the pit with changing lighting conditions. How about street photography in dark alleys. How about just tracking the eyes of the model as they strut down the runway. How about AF on the models eyes with heavy backlit lights.
There are so many more scenarios where AF is challenged than just BIF. Surely these cameras are used magnitudes more in different scenarios than shooting birds.
Because it helps their argument. Haven't you noticed that, in this thread, everything that the R5 lacks is declared "irrelevant" because the poster claims he "never uses such"?
God forbid that I would mention the Pentax astrotracer function, suddenly we'll hear that no one does astro anyway. All while complaining in other threads about a particular lens and declaring it "useless" because coma and "astro".
p.50 #8 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
How would you know that the IBIS is markedly better? Are you shooting with the R5/6 and which Sony bodies do you own and have you shot with? I'm curious because you seem to be defending the R5 in every thread. This thread is posted in the SONY forum so I would expect lots of comparisons to Canon vs Sony no? You may or may not like others opinions but they're just that - opinions. What you may have to may prove out true or false . State your opinions but allow others to do the same! There is NO proof that IBIS is better in the R5/R6 vs Sonys latest bodies. Just as there is no real world evidence yet that the new Canons autofocus is as precise as Sony's (i want to see real birders test these bodies and compare soon, not some Canon Ambassador)
RoamingScott wrote:
Their IBIS is markedly better than Sony in both photo and video applications. It’s one of the key positives to these cameras.
I’m at least brand agnostic enough to keep brand names out of my online handles
p.50 #9 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Maxxus46 wrote:
How would you know that the IBIS is markedly better? Are you shooting with the R5/6 and which Sony bodies do you own and have you shot with? I'm curious because you seem to be defending the R5 in every thread. This thread is posted in the SONY forum so I would expect lots of comparisons to Canon vs Sony no? You may or may not like others opinions but they're just that - opinions. What you may have to may prove out true or false . State your opinions but allow others to do the same! There is NO proof that IBIS is better in the R5/R6 vs Sonys latest bodies. Just as there is no real world evidence yet that the new Canons autofocus is as precise as Sony's (i want to see real birders test these bodies and compare soon, not some Canon Ambassador)
p.50 #10 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Maxxus46 wrote:
How would you know that the IBIS is markedly better? Are you shooting with the R5/6 and which Sony bodies do you own and have you shot with? I'm curious because you seem to be defending the R5 in every thread. This thread is posted in the SONY forum so I would expect lots of comparisons to Canon vs Sony no? You may or may not like others opinions but they're just that - opinions. What you may have to may prove out true or false . State your opinions but allow others to do the same! There is NO proof that IBIS is better in the R5/R6 vs Sonys latest bodies. Just as there is no real world evidence yet that the new Canons autofocus is as precise as Sony's (i want to see real birders test these bodies and compare soon, not some Canon Ambassador)
Don't worry, none of the advocates of R5 have any experience with it. They're speaking out of Canon's promotional materials.
Aug 08, 2020 at 07:51 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.50 #11 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Maxxus46 wrote:
How would you know that the IBIS is markedly better? Are you shooting with the R5/6 and which Sony bodies do you own and have you shot with? I'm curious because you seem to be defending the R5 in every thread. This thread is posted in the SONY forum so I would expect lots of comparisons to Canon vs Sony no? You may or may not like others opinions but they're just that - opinions. What you may have to may prove out true or false . State your opinions but allow others to do the same! There is NO proof that IBIS is better in the R5/R6 vs Sonys latest bodies. Just as there is no real world evidence yet that the new Canons autofocus is as precise as Sony's (i want to see real birders test these bodies and compare soon, not some Canon Ambassador)
You do realize that CIPA (Camera & Imaging Products Association) had developed a standard for testing image stabilization. CIPA is an umbrella organization that: "is an international industry association consisting of members engaged in the development, production or sale of imaging related devices including digital cameras. The association's mission is to contribute to the business success of its members through various activities in securing fair business environments and by hosting events such as the world premier shows of camera and imaging devices, in addition to formulating worldwide industry standards to enhance the convenience of consumers." Sony, Canon, Nikon, Pentax, Olympus, Panasonic, and Sigma are all members of CIPA. A description of their industry standard for image stabilization can be found here:
Using that industry standard Sony's recent camera are rated as providing 5.5 stops of image stabilization. The Canon R5 is rated as providing 8 stops using that industry standard. Note the stops listed are for the industry standard testing described in the link above. People rarely are able to achieve such the full number of stops that are measured in the industry standardized testing--but how many stops you get is also dependent in the real world on how steady your hands are. In any event even though people don't typically get the number of stops measured in the industry standardized test, a higher number of stops in the CIPA testing generally translates in more stops in everyday life as well. So, there is some evidence that Canon has achieved better IBIS in the R5 than we have seen before and that evidence is in the industry standard CIPA testing.
Like you I want to see real world testing, but it isn't as if Canon just made up the number of stops for their IBIS. They had to use the industry standard testing.
As for what camera Scott uses, you can see a number of people's gear--including Scott's--by clicking on their profile. He uses a Sony A7r III, or at least that is what it says in his profile. Not sure why that matters, but the information is there for all to see.
p.50 #12 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Maxxus46 wrote:
How would you know that the IBIS is markedly better? Are you shooting with the R5/6 and which Sony bodies do you own and have you shot with? I'm curious because you seem to be defending the R5 in every thread. This thread is posted in the SONY forum so I would expect lots of comparisons to Canon vs Sony no? You may or may not like others opinions but they're just that - opinions. What you may have to may prove out true or false . State your opinions but allow others to do the same! There is NO proof that IBIS is better in the R5/R6 vs Sonys latest bodies. Just as there is no real world evidence yet that the new Canons autofocus is as precise as Sony's (i want to see real birders test these bodies and compare soon, not some Canon Ambassador)
p.50 #13 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
nhsonyshooter wrote:
Your the one that made the comparison. Those are your words not mine. I just pointed out that's not a favorable look to be making excuses for Canon based on a camera Sony introduced 6 years ago. Canon has been in mirrorless for 8 years or so. They have one of the most successful mirrorless cameras on the market today in the M50. They didn't start development of the R5 6 months ago. Yet people for some reason act like this is Canon's first go around and they are some type of start up. That's the part that is puzzling to me (this free pass attitude), just as much as the corporate decision to launch a camera the was clearly not ready. I mean we are talking about a giant in the industry here, a leader. But I guess the Sony pressure was even more powerful than I thought? ...Show more →
I wasn't making a comparison. I was answering your question about Sony releasing a camera dependent on an external recorder, and correcting your impression that those weren't standard for video professionals. I get that you feel like Canon's getting some sort of free pass because they're Canon, but you ignore the idea that people might have different tolerances for imperfections, and that Canon got anything right with the camera.
p.50 #14 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Steve Spencer wrote:
You do realize that CIPA (Camera & Imaging Products Association) had developed a standard for testing image stabilization. CIPA is an umbrella organization that: "is an international industry association consisting of members engaged in the development, production or sale of imaging related devices including digital cameras. The association's mission is to contribute to the business success of its members through various activities in securing fair business environments and by hosting events such as the world premier shows of camera and imaging devices, in addition to formulating worldwide industry standards to enhance the convenience of consumers." Sony, Canon, Nikon, Pentax, Olympus, Panasonic, and Sigma are all members of CIPA. A description of their industry standard for image stabilization can be found here:
Using that industry standard Sony's recent camera are rated as providing 5.5 stops of image stabilization. The Canon R5 is rated as providing 8 stops using that industry standard. Note the stops listed are for the industry standard testing described in the link above. People rarely are able to achieve such the full number of stops that are measured in the industry standardized testing--but how many stops you get is also dependent in the real world on how steady your hands are. In any event even though people don't typically get the number of stops measured in the industry standardized test, a higher number of stops in the CIPA testing generally translates in more stops in everyday life as well. So, there is some evidence that Canon has achieved better IBIS in the R5 than we have seen before and that evidence is in the industry standard CIPA testing.
Like you I want to see real world testing, but it isn't as if Canon just made up the number of stops for their IBIS. They had to use the industry standard testing.
As for what camera Scott uses, you can see a number of people's gear--including Scott's--by clicking on their profile. He uses a Sony A7r III, or at least that is what it says in his profile. Not sure why that matters, but the information is there for all to see....Show more →
"but it isn't as if Canon just made up the number of stops for their IBIS" ...... because Canon's has proven they are always straight forward with all their claims ? wink, wink
p.50 #16 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
freaklikeme wrote:
I wasn't making a comparison. I was answering your question about Sony releasing a camera dependent on an external recorder, and correcting your impression that those weren't standard for video professionals. I get that you feel like Canon's getting some sort of free pass because they're Canon, but you ignore the idea that people might have different tolerances for imperfections, and that Canon got anything right with the camera.
"There is good tech in these cameras that was poorly marketed and rushed out the door. " Maybe you should go back an read all my comments
Aug 08, 2020 at 08:05 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.50 #17 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
nhsonyshooter wrote:
"but it isn't as if Canon just made up the number of stops for their IBIS" ...... because Canon's has proven they are always straight forward with all their claims ? wink, wink
No Canon is not straight forward with all their claims. No manufacturer is. At the same time I have yet to see a company lie or even misrepresent industry standard testing. That would be stupid because someone else can and will follow the industry standard protocol and it would be easy to demonstrate they lied, which would also open them up to all sorts of legal claims against them including obviously false advertising.
Limiting misleading claims is exactly why such industry standard testing is developing. It is one thing to say we increase DR (for which there is not industry standard testing) by 1.5 stops, which companies can and do lie about all the time. It is quite another thing to say based on CIPA standardized testing IBIS provided 8 stops stabilization. To lie about the first one is easy and there are no repercussion. To lie about the second one is not nearly so easy and can have clear and serious repercussions.
p.50 #18 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
I know was CIPA is and their ratings have been wrong before. Again im only interested in two world tests by non biased photographers in genres I'm interested in (wildife, birding etc) I never believe marketing hype. All manufactured over hype new products, that's almost always the case and a good reason to avoid new products until they've been field tested by real Pros
Steve Spencer wrote:
You do realize that CIPA (Camera & Imaging Products Association) had developed a standard for testing image stabilization. CIPA is an umbrella organization that: "is an international industry association consisting of members engaged in the development, production or sale of imaging related devices including digital cameras. The association's mission is to contribute to the business success of its members through various activities in securing fair business environments and by hosting events such as the world premier shows of camera and imaging devices, in addition to formulating worldwide industry standards to enhance the convenience of consumers." Sony, Canon, Nikon, Pentax, Olympus, Panasonic, and Sigma are all members of CIPA. A description of their industry standard for image stabilization can be found here:
Using that industry standard Sony's recent camera are rated as providing 5.5 stops of image stabilization. The Canon R5 is rated as providing 8 stops using that industry standard. Note the stops listed are for the industry standard testing described in the link above. People rarely are able to achieve such the full number of stops that are measured in the industry standardized testing--but how many stops you get is also dependent in the real world on how steady your hands are. In any event even though people don't typically get the number of stops measured in the industry standardized test, a higher number of stops in the CIPA testing generally translates in more stops in everyday life as well. So, there is some evidence that Canon has achieved better IBIS in the R5 than we have seen before and that evidence is in the industry standard CIPA testing.
Like you I want to see real world testing, but it isn't as if Canon just made up the number of stops for their IBIS. They had to use the industry standard testing.
As for what camera Scott uses, you can see a number of people's gear--including Scott's--by clicking on their profile. He uses a Sony A7r III, or at least that is what it says in his profile. Not sure why that matters, but the information is there for all to see....Show more →
p.50 #19 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
freaklikeme wrote:
Have any of the detractors?
Well kinda. Overheating and wobbling IBIS can be a problem obviously, not for everyone because each person will use the equipment differently. But cut to the 17:04 mark. This is a paid Canon ambassador doing his absolute best to still stay a paid ambassador yet at the same time trying to be honest. Which I respect by the way. Canon has put him in a very tough spot. And you can sense it.
