p.36 #1 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
AF isn’t on par with the A9... reports of bad EVF lag...so bad that the bird your tracking simply disappears. So seems quite a ways behind here... then again theA9 readout speeds I think is unparalleled at this timeWhich is why the EVF reports what’s actually recording on the sensor... real time live feed
p.36 #2 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Maxxus46 wrote:
AF isn’t on par with the A9... reports of bad EVF lag...so bad that the bird your tracking simply disappears. So seems quite a ways behind here... then again theA9 readout speeds I think is unparalleled at this timeWhich is why the EVF reports what’s actually recording on the sensor... real time live feed
Against the R6 the A9 definitely wins, but the R5 against the 7R4, the Canon has the lead imo
p.36 #3 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Bob_S wrote:
The owner of the camera said he's had it recording 8K for about 2 hours of footage split into 20min segments as an interview (with about a minute between clips).
The 4K240 won't be used for long either, imagine 240p slowed to 24p, a few seconds is all it takes.
The A7S3 isn't out yet and doesn't do 8K or 4K240p. The 7S3 will be good, but it just doesn't give you the options the R5 does and is a 12mp stills camera.
The Canon doesn't do 4K240 either though and it doesn't do 1080/240 either. The A7SIII has 1080/240 if you are looking for 240.
Every review I've watched so far testing recovery times is saying at most you can shoot another 5mins after a full 30mins of waiting and the camera must be fully turned off to even get that recovery. I'm not sure how someone was able to pull of 20min segments at 8K unless they were waiting a long time (like an hour or more) between each segment. I've watched around 6 reviews with heat limit testing and no one was able to do that.
If one is doing more video A7SIII seems a lot better. But yeah, it really can't act as a still camera with 12MPs at least for 2020 standards. The R5 on the other hand is a stills monster but as Gerald says is not an 8K camera and should never have been marketed as one as actual workflow is unusable.
p.36 #4 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Maxxus46 wrote:
AF isn’t on par with the A9... reports of bad EVF lag...so bad that the bird your tracking simply disappears. So seems quite a ways behind here... then again theA9 readout speeds I think is unparalleled at this timeWhich is why the EVF reports what’s actually recording on the sensor... real time live feed
Again, the EVF lag is not there in H+ or ES. It is pretty darn good. The only video that showed the bad delay was the T&C video using an ancient lens that doesn't support MS H+. They never even tried ES which just seems really odd to me, nor did they try to use a more modern EF lens or an RF lens and pan with birds.
Many user reports coming in that lag is a non issue in H+ and ES. This is because it does very quick frame insertion and especially at 20FPS it looks about the same as A9. However, the A9 will still have some advantage if you are doing a long burst and continuing to PAN but it isn't that much of an advantage from what I can tell.
p.36 #6 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
arbitrage wrote:
The Canon doesn't do 4K240 either though and it doesn't do 1080/240 either. The A7SIII has 1080/240 if you are looking for 240.
Every review I've watched so far testing recovery times is saying at most you can shoot another 5mins after a full 30mins of waiting and the camera must be fully turned off to even get that recovery. I'm not sure how someone was able to pull of 20min segments at 8K unless they were waiting a long time (like an hour or more) between each segment. I've watched around 6 reviews with heat limit testing and no one was able to do that.
If one is doing more video A7SIII seems a lot better. But yeah, it really can't act as a still camera with 12MPs at least for 2020 standards. The R5 on the other hand is a stills monster but as Gerald says is not an 8K camera and should never have been marketed as one as actual workflow is unusable....Show more →
If one is using 8K on the R5, I do wonder what the frequent high temperature overheating would cost the electronics in terms of durability and longevity. Can't be good.
I agree. Dual gain pixels really helps lower hi ISO noise. I think in the last ten years this technology has been the biggest advance in sensors. Decreasing hi ISO noise almost a full stop. Not that there haven't been other important advances, but this one I can clearly see how it matters even without pixel peeping. It is good to see Canon has joined the party.
p.36 #9 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
AGeoJO wrote:
Wow, and that to just get 12FPS? The shutter speed being at least at 1/1000sec and the lens at maximum aperture are 2 factors we need to get a decent sequence of BIFs but the other factors sound too restricting, especially the first 2.
Scott, being a Sony shooter, you certainly know a lot about the Canon R5, probably more than potential R5 users or wannabe users .
Those warnings are in every Canon manual in all the DSLR's I've owned. The only difference is they say reduced capacity for the battery instead of using a percentage. Room temp is just a base standard. I've shot in -30 celsius. Also attached to this warnings.
Aug 01, 2020 at 09:41 AM
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p.36 #10 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
I think we basically agree. I would rate them A7r III > A7rIV = R5 > Panny S1R with the gap between the A7r III and the A7r IV and R5 being pretty small and the gap between the Panny and the rest much bigger. This is mostly what one would expect from the DR data at photons to photos except the Panny does much worse than those numbers would suggest. Also, I actually like the color quite a bit better from the R5 than the A7r IV, but I don't make too much of that. It can be tweaked easily and it may just be this test.
p.36 #11 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
I don’t think anybody assumes the camera performance gets worse with colder environments short of worst battery life, their wording makes it seem like there are some software-based throttling elements in play on the R5 based on way too many factors. Time will tell.
Zenon Char wrote:
Those warnings are in every Canon manual in all the DSLR's I've owned. The only difference is they say reduced capacity for the battery instead of using a percentage. Room temp is just a base standard. I've shot in -30 celsius. Also attached to this warnings.
p.36 #12 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
RoamingScott wrote:
I don’t think anybody assumes the camera performance gets worse with colder environments short of worst battery life, their wording makes it seem like there are some software-based throttling elements in play on the R5 based on way too many factors. Time will tell.
Yes the difference with the R5 compared to previous Canon cameras is that the R5 deliberately slows down FPS and gives you color coded indicators for what it has slowed down to. Previously you never knew if it was slowing down much unless you tested for it like Tony did awhile back. The 5DSR was the most recognized culprit dropping to 3FPS from 5FPS at ~50%. Supposedly even 1DX cameras dropped but I never noticed it (that doesn't mean it wasn't happening). However, I typically was running 1DX batteries at 75% or more because over a day they never dropped much lower than that and I still was always in the habit of recharging them overnight regardless of the charge level.
p.36 #13 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Understandable that a DSLR battery wouldn’t drop more than 25% on a full charge, but as you well know, mirrorless battery life isn’t close to equivalent. Easy to think that the R5 would be at 60% after just an hour of BIF burst shooting.
arbitrage wrote:
Yes the difference with the R5 compared to previous Canon cameras is that the R5 deliberately slows down FPS and gives you color coded indicators for what it has slowed down to. Previously you never knew if it was slowing down much unless you tested for it like Tony did awhile back. The 5DSR was the most recognized culprit dropping to 3FPS from 5FPS at ~50%. Supposedly even 1DX cameras dropped but I never noticed it (that doesn't mean it wasn't happening). However, I typically was running 1DX batteries at 75% or more because over a day they never dropped much lower than that and I still was always in the habit of recharging them overnight regardless of the charge level....Show more →
p.36 #14 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
patotts wrote:
I think many of us eagerly awaited the release of the Canon R5 (some perhaps even the R6) and I am curious what are your initial reactions to the specs/details?
The jury is still out on performance and IQ but, as a Sony user, what do you like or dislike with the new Canon release? Anyone thinking of giving it a try?
Both R5 and R6 are excellent models, I'd be happy to own either.
I'm a happy a7rii and a7iii user, and an original model Fujifilm X100 as well.
There's no reason why we can't like camera gear from different manufacturers.
J
Aug 01, 2020 at 10:29 AM
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p.36 #15 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
arbitrage wrote:
Again, the EVF lag is not there in H+ or ES.
evf lag is caused primarily by slow sensor readout, you can't fix that with h+ or es.
r5 does not have a stacked sensor, it is what it is.
arbitrage wrote:
It is pretty darn good. The only video that showed the bad delay was the T&C video using an ancient lens that doesn't support MS H+.
lenses can't increase sensor readout speed.
maybe i need to shoot mechanical shutter with the r5, in order to understand whatever it is that you are saying.
arbitrage wrote:
They never even tried ES which just seems really odd to me, nor did they try to use a more modern EF lens or an RF lens and pan with birds.
also look at the shot in that thread that clearly displays rolling shutter, but if you can ignore that, i guess that panning will work.
arbitrage wrote:
Many user reports coming in that lag is a non issue in H+ and ES. This is because it does very quick frame insertion and especially at 20FPS it looks about the same as A9.
frame insertion = adding duplicate frames to the evf display, it doesn't do anything at all to change or improve evf lag.
p.36 #16 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
RoamingScott wrote:
Understandable that a DSLR battery wouldn’t drop more than 25% on a full charge, but as you well know, mirrorless battery life isn’t close to equivalent. Easy to think that the R5 would be at 60% after just an hour of BIF burst shooting.
Yes for sure. The R5 battery life is a problem and will require owners who shoot highest FPS to buy even more than just the relatively poor battery life necessitates.
I do understand that there is going to be a certain amount of EVF lag as even the A9 has it. However at less than 12FPS which is what Tony got with the old 500/4 lens you aren’t getting frame insertion and are therefore subject to both the MS blackout (absent in 12FPS and of course ES) and the lag ( which doesn’t look good at all). However what I was trying to get at is that in 12FPS and in ES the camera does fast enough frame insertion that at least in ES and to a lesser extent in H+ you get a fairly fluid and less laggy view than in the slower MS frame rates that Tony showed. I’ve used the 1DXIII in LV via the Hoodman and shot a ~130 shot panning burst of a Northern Harriet IF and didn’t have issue following it while bursting. The R5 seems to look the same from the Atmos recordings I’ve seen so far.
There is no doubt the A9 will still be easier to pan and fire especially as you get faster birds. But I still feel the R5 in ES and probably in MS H+ will be doable. I shoot my A7RIV for swallows IF in H+ which is not a LV but still shows blackout. If I can manage that, I’m sure the R5 is even easier from what I’ve seen so far. But until I get one in hand I won’t know for sure.
The only RF lens they could have tried would have been 70-200 and for sure it wouldn’t have been enough focal length but it still could have shown us the viewer via the Atmos that 12FPS H+ isn’t anything like H or slower.
In regards to the Osprey shots, which shots are you seeing rolling shutter in? I see it maybe in the far wing of the last Whistling Duck shot. Otherwise I see leaning trees but I’d just blur those out and I generally try to not to shoot when backgrounds are that close.
p.36 #18 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
I am sure rolling shutter will be an issue with Electronic shutter and thats a deal breaker for most. Can't wait to see real comparisons to the A9ii. Also frame insertion to me although it may be fast is not same as blackout free. We are spoiled by the A9 sensor. I am also hearing that to maintain 12FPS mechanical the battery must be at 60% or better? Can someone confirm this..if so that's a HUGE limitation with is what is R5 supposedly having poor battery life.
arbitrage wrote:
Again, the EVF lag is not there in H+ or ES. It is pretty darn good. The only video that showed the bad delay was the T&C video using an ancient lens that doesn't support MS H+. They never even tried ES which just seems really odd to me, nor did they try to use a more modern EF lens or an RF lens and pan with birds.
Many user reports coming in that lag is a non issue in H+ and ES. This is because it does very quick frame insertion and especially at 20FPS it looks about the same as A9. However, the A9 will still have some advantage if you are doing a long burst and continuing to PAN but it isn't that much of an advantage from what I can tell....Show more →
p.36 #19 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Maxxus46 wrote:
I am sure rolling shutter will be an issue with Electronic shutter and thats a deal breaker for most. Can't wait to see real comparisons to the A9ii. Also frame insertion to me although it may be fast is not same as blackout free. We are spoiled by the A9 sensor. I am also hearing that to maintain 12FPS mechanical the battery must be at 60% or better? Can someone confirm this..if so that's a HUGE limitation with is what is R5 supposedly having poor battery life.
Yes, the manual states that 60% or higher is needed to guarantee 12FPS...but all camera manuals state stuff like this although never before have I seen an actual percentage given. Some users report they didn't notice the FPS slowing as they depleted their battery all the way to 0% while in MS at 12FPS but it may not be totally obvious if it only drops a few frames. You also need two batteries in the grip with both at 60%+ to guarantee 12FPS...again, not sure if this will really show in actual use as bad as it sound in writing.
As to ES shutter distortion, I did an experiment yesterday shooting the really slow scanning A7RIV for BIF. No obvious distortion in the wings for herons and gulls. Distortion with Kingfishers in some wing positions. Distortion for hummers in some wing positions but in my favourite hummer wing positions (fully back or fully forward there wasn't obvious distortion). So for sure ES has to be managed but you can actually shoot a lot of BIF with it. The R5 is most likely faster scanning than the A7RIV but that is TBD. If the R5 is 1/60s then I think it will be useable for most BIF (like ducks).
p.36 #20 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Wow shutdown immediately at internal temperature reaching 49 degrees Celsius, and ambient temp of 34C? This body needed some active cooling. I guess it's ok for very short video clips. Hmnnnn
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