p.33 #1 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
timgangloff wrote:
I may agree with you on it being a great all-rounder, if, and only if, the sensor read out speed if fast enough to support capturing fast moving objects. For example, I can't use my a7r4 to capture hummingbirds with the electronic shutter. The a9 has no issue with this.
Can the R5 do hummingbirds or football players with electronic shutter? If it can, it will be a fantastic camera and would certainly get my attention. Both for being a great all-rounder and for the lens lineup, both the older lenses and huge used market and new RF lenses. However, if the sensor read out speed is not sufficient to capture fast motion with the electronic shutter, it will be a dud as far as I'm concerned.
I've not read every page here and I know it's not available yet, but is there any information on using the electronic shutter for fast action? ...Show more →
Given that Canon is issuing all sorts of warnings about distortion with electronic shutter it is quite unrealistic to expect it to work reliably to fast action. The electronic shutter in R5 inherits all the characteristics from 1DX III: 12 bit ADC only (1.2 stop DR drop), max shutter time 0.5 secs etc. We know that 1DX III electronic shutter readout time is around 1/50; faster than Sony A7-series (about 1/30 in 12 bit mode) yet way slower than 1/160 in A9/A9II. I think it unrealistic to expect higher res R5 having faster readouts than 1DXIII, given that the tech generation is clearly same I'd quess a little slower but faster than Sony.
But all in all nothing indicates R5 has electronic shutter that can *reliably* shoot fast action without distortions. Can you shoot football players and get good shots? Yes, but you'll propably get a some distorted too.
I must sound like a broken record by now, but would some real slim shady please please shoot led stripe test with R5 silent shutter.
p.33 #2 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
12 FPS mechanical is plenty for an “all arounder” IMO. I also am biased because I really dislike silent shutter and very rarely use it. If I wanted that functionality I’d just get the best available and get an A9. The R4 mech shutter and minimal EVF lag is perfectly acceptable for normal amounts of action, and the R5 looks to be roughly the same.
timgangloff wrote:
I may agree with you on it being a great all-rounder, if, and only if, the sensor read out speed if fast enough to support capturing fast moving objects. For example, I can't use my a7r4 to capture hummingbirds with the electronic shutter. The a9 has no issue with this.
Can the R5 do hummingbirds or football players with electronic shutter? If it can, it will be a fantastic camera and would certainly get my attention. Both for being a great all-rounder and for the lens lineup, both the older lenses and huge used market and new RF lenses. However, if the sensor read out speed is not sufficient to capture fast motion with the electronic shutter, it will be a dud as far as I'm concerned.
I've not read every page here and I know it's not available yet, but is there any information on using the electronic shutter for fast action?
p.33 #3 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Northrup has already tested the R5 and commented that the lag is really bad. You can't track birds in flight with this camera. Its another A7RIV with 8k and less pixels. Stay with your A9.
timgangloff wrote:
I may agree with you on it being a great all-rounder, if, and only if, the sensor read out speed if fast enough to support capturing fast moving objects. For example, I can't use my a7r4 to capture hummingbirds with the electronic shutter. The a9 has no issue with this.
Can the R5 do hummingbirds or football players with electronic shutter? If it can, it will be a fantastic camera and would certainly get my attention. Both for being a great all-rounder and for the lens lineup, both the older lenses and huge used market and new RF lenses. However, if the sensor read out speed is not sufficient to capture fast motion with the electronic shutter, it will be a dud as far as I'm concerned.
I've not read every page here and I know it's not available yet, but is there any information on using the electronic shutter for fast action?
p.33 #5 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Maxxus46 wrote:
Northrup has already tested the R5 and commented that the lag is really bad. You can't track birds in flight with this camera. Its another A7RIV with 8k and less pixels. Stay with your A9.
Northrup used an older lens that was not up to the speed of the R5, so don't judge yet.
That being said, I think it is becoming clear that it will not compete with the a9 in speed. It has other attributes where it will be first I think,
p.33 #6 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Beni wrote:
You are of course correct, it's a great modern Canon high resolution, mirrorless, stills dedicated shooting camera, however the above argument while working perfectly for people already locked into the canon system, does not in any way persuade the majority who have equally good or better options within their own systems. The use case scenario where this camera makes more sense than the competition has become too narrow once you take away the video feature headlines and the current news about the video problems has done just that. I'm not sure if what's left is enough at this stage of the game, especially for a significant late comer to the game?...Show more →
It really just depends on the different use cases, as you have said. But I think you're looking at it in too limited of a scope.
I personally, was not already locked into the Canon system. As a matter of fact, I had well over 15k invested in the Sony system not too long ago to go along with a nice little Fuji kit and I am still somehow intrigued by the RF system for which I owned no part of.
From my perspective, I still owned some EF mount glass (Sigma 20/1.4, 105/1.4, Canon 300/2.8, etc) that I have loved for a while and maintained them in EF mount specifically so I could remain somewhat fluid as they are the most compatible lenses across a multitude of systems. Those lenses work well enough adapted to my Sony bodies but never worked as well as I imagined they could have. They also work decently well on my Fuji system albeit not as well as with the Sony bodies. What I really wanted though, was a body that had offered me similar capabilities to my Sony bodies but also gave me native performance with those lenses. Enter the R5 and R6.
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j4nu wrote:
Unfortunately, people tend towards fanboyism on the internet .
To me, it's all about what you want:
* you are a no compromise 50mm shooter, then R5 seems like a good choice coupled with RF 50mm f1.2
* you prefer smaller glass in that focal length, then nikon S line or Sony 55mm looks good
* ultimate resolution...
* class leading AF and silent shooting...
* video...
* and the list goes on
Bingo. I totally agree which is why I have now bought into the RF system and have decided to add the RP as a placeholder body just to play with the RF lenses I've been wanting to get my hands on until I decide on whether I want an R5 or R6.
See below. None are perfect. But they all have something to offer that is different from the next and I love them all for different reasons. Additionally, I have a decent cache of lenses that I can use across all three systems depending on what my needs are at that time RF kit arrived - quick size comparison of a few of my favorite tools by Johndizzo15, on Flickr.
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raminolta wrote:
The problem is the new cameras initially created a huge amount of excitement and hype mainly due to the new video features like 8k recording promising a true hybrid camera, a jack of all trades for both still and video and for any kind of photography and videography. I have to say, even I also found it very tempting depending on how performing the sensor could have been. Of course, when it turned out the new models have serious over-heating flaws that renders it useless for most people who truly need and use the video on their cameras, people got disappointed.
As a still cameras, both R5 and R6 are still interesting cameras with a good IBIS, particularly R5 with its high resolution sensor. But I don't think there is now any reason at all to switch to Canon because of the new models. For video focused users, there are good reasons to use other systems such as Sony instead. The new A7s iii is exciting and I may consider purchasing one to focus more on video....Show more →
Agreed on various points.
One thing I have noticed though, is that there seems to be way more serious videographers around now than there were just a few weeks ago.
p.33 #7 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Awesome kit. Can you give some brief feedback/comparison between the Sigma 35mm f1.2, Canon 50mm f1.2, and 28-70mm f2? I know they're not exactly comparable but I'm curious to hear how you find them as far as sharpness, rendering, etc. I'm mostly a 35mm/85mm shooter but with the R5 on the way I have considered the 50mm f1.2. And I really want the Sigma 35mm f1.2 for my A7RIV but if I end up shooting more with the R5 I may want to invest in more RF glass instead. I have a 28-70 f2 on backorder and I'm wondering if the 50mm is that much better at f1.2 vs f2.
JohnDizzo15 wrote:
It really just depends on the different use cases, as you have said. But I think you're looking at it in too limited of a scope.
I personally, was not already locked into the Canon system. As a matter of fact, I had well over 15k invested in the Sony system not too long ago to go along with a nice little Fuji kit and I am still somehow intrigued by the RF system for which I owned no part of.
From my perspective, I still owned some EF mount glass (Sigma 20/1.4, 105/1.4, Canon 300/2.8, etc) that I have loved for a while and maintained them in EF mount specifically so I could remain somewhat fluid as they are the most compatible lenses across a multitude of systems. Those lenses work well enough adapted to my Sony bodies but never worked as well as I imagined they could have. They also work decently well on my Fuji system albeit not as well as with the Sony bodies. What I really wanted though, was a body that had offered me similar capabilities to my Sony bodies but also gave me native performance with those lenses. Enter the R5 and R6.
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Bingo. I totally agree which is why I have now bought into the RF system and have decided to add the RP as a placeholder body just to play with the RF lenses I've been wanting to get my hands on until I decide on whether I want an R5 or R6.
One thing I have noticed though, is that there seems to be way more serious videographers around now than there were just a few weeks ago. ...Show more →
p.33 #8 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
ilkka_nissila wrote:
But videographers don't want to pay video camera prices, they want still photographers to pay for the development of cameras that have advanced video features so that they only have to pay a fraction of the cost of video cameras with similar sensor size. And then they tell us that the video actually makes the cameras cheaper, which is pretty easy to prove wrong, by simply looking at what video cameras that are developed without the cost subsidization by still photographers actually cost.
I think it's more to do with size and portability which is very understandable looking at dedicated video cameras.
Let's take one of the videographers holy grails in the high quality video camera / affordability stakes, as an example : Black Magic Cameras. You can get a fantastic camera, that will blow any of these cameras far far away, for US$3,495 (plus lenses of course), the BM URSA Broadcast, it is not however very small or portable, in fact the opposite ! They have a whole range of other smaller, far less adept, cameras at ca. US$1,500 and up. Or much more advanced/bulkier at ca. US$10,000.
p.33 #9 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
The lens used won't affect EVF lag...its a real problem because sensor readout is simply too slow to get to EVF in time vs. What you see in the finder. Add in the camera has poor battery life, and FPS slows as battery drains with electronic shutter and a lot about the R5 is a turnoff for us wildlife shooters. What good is animal eye AF if you cant keep focus or lose the bird your trying to track in the frame? No thanks
1bwana1 wrote:
Northrup used an older lens that was not up to the speed of the R5, so don't judge yet.
That being said, I think it is becoming clear that it will not compete with the a9 in speed. It has other attributes where it will be first I think,
p.33 #10 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Thats still aweful...A9 has no such limitations with low battery
ilkka_nissila wrote:
Citation? Canon's R5 advanced user guide note e-shutter fps can drop down to 6.8 fps on low battery, but I don't see any mention of 4 fps with e-shutter.
p.33 #11 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Got to shoot with an r5 and r6 the other day at a canon demo. I am a former long term canon shooter, but have been shooting a7III's and rIII's professionally for two years. I do mainly portrait, corporate and events.
I shot in a fairly dimly lit camera store with the 24-70 2.8 and the 70-200 compact 2.8. I really liked the viewfinder and lcd...much sharper and brighter than my rIII. Everything else was "meh". The images that I recorded were rather noisy and not really crisp, and that was at low iso up to 400.I don't think the shadow detail is as good as the sony's either. At this point I am keeping my 7III's and maybe add an a9. We will wait for further tests.
p.33 #12 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Maxxus46 wrote:
The lens used won't affect EVF lag...its a real problem because sensor readout is simply too slow to get to EVF in time vs. What you see in the finder. Add in the camera has poor battery life, and FPS slows as battery drains with electronic shutter and a lot about the R5 is a turnoff for us wildlife shooters. What good is animal eye AF if you cant keep focus or lose the bird your trying to track in the frame? No thanks
but you'll see that once the "biggest issue of mirrorless", will not be an issue at all after all for Canikon users, I don't think they even understand the performance gap abyss to the a9
not to mention that now that's about Canon, nobody believes CIPA ratings anymore
p.33 #13 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
knshshnk wrote:
but you'll see that once the "biggest issue of mirrorless", will not be an issue at all after all for Canikon users, I don't think they even understand the performance gap abyss to the a9
not to mention that now that's about Canon, nobody believes CIPA ratings anymore
My biggest frustration with this and other forums is how much brand bias and confirmation bias totally takes over every discussion.
Brand A users will downplay Brand B’s unique feature right up until Brand A has it. Brand A will latch onto one single review that contradicts the other twenty reviews because it paints their new toy in a more equal light and totally disregard the other 20 reviews that must tell them deep down that something must be off with that single review.
I’m thankful when I can find a conversation with some Brand X users who can just discuss the pros and cons and don’t have to defend their brand or discredit the other brand with every sentence.
p.33 #14 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
FM seems to be a bit better about this fact with regards to rational discussion. Over at DPReview, there are Sony shills and Canon truth on the Canon forums, and vice versa on the Sony forums, and that's it, regardless of reality.
As one who now has a Canon R system to sit along side my Sony kit, I have to say...discussions in Sony land seem to be more grounded to my eye on FM even.
In any case, Canon is doing some really nice things nowadays, and it's good for everyone. Nice to have some real competition in this space to push everyone to create better gear.
p.33 #15 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
tribal mentality is evolution by-product. Human as well as some animals learned that living in a heard is safer. So that instinct unconsciously takes over in the wrong situation thinking it is a survival situation like what happens between different camera systems fans. if someone using another camera system, it should not be a life threatening situation, It is not a survival situation.
But to be truthful Sony tribe is better than other tribes
p.33 #16 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Most Sony users on FM came from CaNikon, so most have more experience with multiple ecosystems than legacy/current CaNikon shooters, which makes them a bit more agnostic regarding brands. The Nikon board posters on FM are some of the most toxic of any forum I’ve seen.
Treating brand loyalty like you’re rooting for your home team is a dead giveaway that you lack any critical thinking ability.
Jman13 wrote:
FM seems to be a bit better about this fact with regards to rational discussion. Over at DPReview, there are Sony shills and Canon truth on the Canon forums, and vice versa on the Sony forums, and that's it, regardless of reality.
As one who now has a Canon R system to sit along side my Sony kit, I have to say...discussions in Sony land seem to be more grounded to my eye on FM even.
In any case, Canon is doing some really nice things nowadays, and it's good for everyone. Nice to have some real competition in this space to push everyone to create better gear. ...Show more →
p.33 #17 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
RoamingScott wrote:
Most Sony users on FM came from CaNikon, so most have more experience with multiple ecosystems than legacy/current CaNikon shooters, which makes them a bit more agnostic regarding brands. The Nikon board posters on FM are some of the most toxic of any forum I’ve seen.
Yeah, that makes sense. I've gone from brand to brand several times (often owning a couple systems at a time since I review stuff), so I guess I forget that some have been entrenched for years.
p.33 #18 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
I'm sure the R5 is a very good camera. IBIS looks really good. But for those thinking this will be a fast action / BIF beast, I'm not sure.
Someone posted this on the Canon board.
I happened to want 12 fps for Birds in Flight, but in the R5 manual, page 452, read that to get 12 fps, many factors need to fall in line. Some of these include
..camera needs to be at room temp ***
..battery level at least 60% ****
..shutter speed 1/1000 or faster
..lens needs to be set to maximum aperture *****
..flicker reduction can't be on
..all RF and only certain EF lenses can be used
p.33 #19 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Poefolk wrote:
I'm sure the R5 is a very good camera. IBIS looks really good. But for those thinking this will be a fast action / BIF beast, I'm not sure.
p.33 #20 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Thanks, @AlphaPhotography.
I haven't been able to shoot much with the new kit yet as I've been ridden like Sea Biscuit at work every day since I received it. In the very limited amount of time I have been hands on with the two RF lenses though, they seem to be really really good. I've mostly shot the zoom at 28mm and it has a surprising amount of micro contrast/pop to it. In the few snaps I've gotten throughout the range, it appears to be consistently sharp at all focal lengths. The 50/1.2 is also very sharp even wide open and reminds me a lot of the Sigma 35/1.2 in that way. The 50/1.2 and the zoom have a fairly similar look at 50mm with the few shots I have stopped down with the prime.
Hopefully, I'll be able to provide more useful feedback once I get some time to just shoot. AlphaPhotography wrote:
Awesome kit. Can you give some brief feedback/comparison between the Sigma 35mm f1.2, Canon 50mm f1.2, and 28-70mm f2? I know they're not exactly comparable but I'm curious to hear how you find them as far as sharpness, rendering, etc. I'm mostly a 35mm/85mm shooter but with the R5 on the way I have considered the 50mm f1.2. And I really want the Sigma 35mm f1.2 for my A7RIV but if I end up shooting more with the R5 I may want to invest in more RF glass instead. I have a 28-70 f2 on backorder and I'm wondering if the 50mm is that much better at f1.2 vs f2.
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