p.32 #1 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
'You do not know when it will shut off, or when it will restart, you must think about it all the time. And what do you tell the client as you put an ice cube on the camera?'
And people whine about 'toy' Sony cameras and menus and 10 second battery changes...what a market leader, what a wonderful example Canon have set here. What an extraordinary fail, I hope users sue their arses off.
p.32 #3 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Sony (and other manufacturers) can implement a different idea of active cooling: put a thin copper plate (like the cooling CPU plate in ultrabooks and mac airbook) on top of the main processor inside the camera. Two thin heat-pipes connect this plate to a heatsink at the bottom of the camera which consists of very short aluminum fins that are exposed (without exposing the interior of the camera) and are thick enough so they don't get damaged by accident. The active cooling is implemented in the vertical grip instead consisting of two small fans which are powered by the batteries inside the grip and can be turned on and off by the user. These fans blow air at the heatsink that is at the bottom of the camera.
p.32 #5 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Poefolk wrote:
Some things I've read that would be concerning if I was looking to switch to Canon.
Electronic shutter minimum shutter speed is 0.5 seconds.
In AF-C, you won't be getting anywhere near 20 FPS if the battery level is below 60% (could be as low as 4 FPS in some cases).
With electronic shutter, you can shoot at 20 FPS only with the maximum aperture of the lens.
It is also pretty much guaranteed at this point that you will not get nearly as blackout/freeze free EVF or similar negligible risk of rolling shutter distorition as in A9 while these may be a a bit better than in Sony A7RIII/A7III.
p.32 #6 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
vdo1 wrote:
Alternatively, demanding videographers could buy video cameras instead of insisting that still cameras should come with heatsinks and fans.
p.32 #8 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
But videographers don't want to pay video camera prices, they want still photographers to pay for the development of cameras that have advanced video features so that they only have to pay a fraction of the cost of video cameras with similar sensor size. And then they tell us that the video actually makes the cameras cheaper, which is pretty easy to prove wrong, by simply looking at what video cameras that are developed without the cost subsidization by still photographers actually cost.
vdo1 wrote:
Alternatively, demanding videographers could buy video cameras instead of insisting that still cameras should come with heatsinks and fans.
p.32 #9 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Poefolk wrote
In AF-C, you won't be getting anywhere near 20 FPS if the battery level is below 60% (could be as low as 4 FPS in some cases).
Citation? Canon's R5 advanced user guide note e-shutter fps can drop down to 6.8 fps on low battery, but I don't see any mention of 4 fps with e-shutter.
p.32 #10 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Pretty sure I’ll get flamed for this. But I think there is an excess of glass half empty perspective here, which is the wrong way to look at the R5 IMO.
For all the things Canon got “wrong” here, they’ve also given you an unmatched tool in what it offers as a package. A good way to look at it analogously would be assessing the A9. It too, is still an unmatched tool in the market if looked at holistically. Sure, the sensor has less dynamic range amongst other differences than the R2/R3/R4, the S line, and the A73 (price ranges all significantly less than the A9 line with a few being less than half the cost). But taken as a package, the A9 is still able to offer us a very specific set of features in a very specific tool that no other tool in the market offers. The R5 accomplishes the same feat so long as you are looking through the glass as though it is half full as opposed to focusing on everything it does worse than it’s peers aka half empty.
p.32 #11 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
JohnDizzo15 wrote:
Pretty sure I’ll get flamed for this. But I think there is an excess of glass half empty perspective here, which is the wrong way to look at the R5 IMO.
For all the things Canon got “wrong” here, they’ve also given you an unmatched tool in what it offers as a package. A good way to look at it analogously would be assessing the A9. It too, is still an unmatched tool in the market if looked at holistically. Sure, the sensor has less dynamic range amongst other differences than the R2/R3/R4, the S line, and the A73 (price ranges all significantly less than the A9 line with a few being less than half the cost). But taken as a package, the A9 is still able to offer us a very specific set of features in a very specific tool that no other tool in the market offers. The R5 accomplishes the same feat so long as you are looking through the glass as though it is half full as opposed to focusing on everything it does worse than it’s peers aka half empty. ...Show more →
You are of course correct, it's a great modern Canon high resolution, mirrorless, stills dedicated shooting camera, however the above argument while working perfectly for people already locked into the canon system, does not in any way persuade the majority who have equally good or better options within their own systems. The use case scenario where this camera makes more sense than the competition has become too narrow once you take away the video feature headlines and the current news about the video problems has done just that. I'm not sure if what's left is enough at this stage of the game, especially for a significant late comer to the game?
p.32 #12 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Unfortunately, people tend towards fanboyism on the internet .
To me, it's all about what you want:
* you are a no compromise 50mm shooter, then R5 seems like a good choice coupled with RF 50mm f1.2
* you prefer smaller glass in that focal length, then nikon S line or Sony 55mm looks good
* ultimate resolution...
* class leading AF and silent shooting...
* video...
* and the list goes on
JohnDizzo15 wrote:
Pretty sure I’ll get flamed for this. But I think there is an excess of glass half empty perspective here, which is the wrong way to look at the R5 IMO.
For all the things Canon got “wrong” here, they’ve also given you an unmatched tool in what it offers as a package. A good way to look at it analogously would be assessing the A9. It too, is still an unmatched tool in the market if looked at holistically. Sure, the sensor has less dynamic range amongst other differences than the R2/R3/R4, the S line, and the A73 (price ranges all significantly less than the A9 line with a few being less than half the cost). But taken as a package, the A9 is still able to offer us a very specific set of features in a very specific tool that no other tool in the market offers. The R5 accomplishes the same feat so long as you are looking through the glass as though it is half full as opposed to focusing on everything it does worse than it’s peers aka half empty. ...Show more →
p.32 #13 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
JohnDizzo15 wrote:
Pretty sure I’ll get flamed for this. But I think there is an excess of glass half empty perspective here, which is the wrong way to look at the R5 IMO.
For all the things Canon got “wrong” here, they’ve also given you an unmatched tool in what it offers as a package. A good way to look at it analogously would be assessing the A9. It too, is still an unmatched tool in the market if looked at holistically. Sure, the sensor has less dynamic range among other differences than the R2/R3/R4, the S line, and the A73 (price ranges all significantly less than the A9 line with a few being less than half the cost). But taken as a package, the A9 is still able to offer us a very specific set of features in a very specific tool that no other tool in the market offers. The R5 accomplishes the same feat so long as you are looking through the glass as though it is half full as opposed to focusing on everything it does worse than it’s peers aka half empty. ...Show more →
The problem is the new cameras initially created a huge amount of excitement and hype mainly due to the new video features like 8k recording promising a true hybrid camera, a jack of all trades for both still and video and for any kind of photography and videography. I have to say, even I also found it very tempting depending on how performing the sensor could have been. Of course, when it turned out the new models have serious over-heating flaws that renders it useless for most people who truly need and use the video on their cameras, people got disappointed.
As still cameras, both R5 and R6 are still interesting cameras with a good IBIS, particularly R5 with its high resolution sensor. But I don't think there is now any reason at all to switch to Canon and these new models have not changed it due to their flaws . For video centric users, there are good reasons to use other systems instead such as Sony. The new A7s iii is exciting and I may consider purchasing one for doing more video.
p.32 #14 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
To my eye, the Canon R5 is shaping up as the finest "all-arounder" hitting the market this year.
- 45mp and 12fps mechanical, good balance between resolution and speed
- Excellent, and possibly class leading, Animal Eye AF
- Great 1080p and 4K options
- Much better IBIS than Sony
- Scalable RAW sizes
- Cutting edge memory support
- Flip out screen with excellent touch control support
- RF lens ecosystem is promising...existing lenses are excellent, future lenses look promising
- EF legacy support seems to support most lenses as well as the 5D4 did
However...if you need:
resolution...Sony A7R4 or GFX100
raw speed and near perfect e-shutter/20fps...A9
low light video...A7S3
For just about every feature the R5 has, there is a Sony option that does it better, however I don't think there's a Sony now or on the radar that does as much as the R5 does in a single package
p.32 #15 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
RoamingScott wrote:
To my eye, the Canon R5 is shaping up as the finest "all-arounder" hitting the market this year.
- 45mp and 12fps mechanical, good balance between resolution and speed
- Excellent, and possibly class leading, Animal Eye AF
- Great 1080p and 4K options
- Much better IBIS than Sony
- Scalable RAW sizes
- Cutting edge memory support
- Flip out screen with excellent touch control support
- RF lens ecosystem is promising...existing lenses are excellent, future lenses look promising
- EF legacy support seems to support most lenses as well as the 5D4 did
However...if you need:
resolution...Sony A7R4 or GFX100
raw speed and near perfect e-shutter/20fps...A9
low light video...A7S3
For just about every feature the R5 has, there is a Sony option that does it better, however I don't think there's a Sony now or on the radar that does as much as the R5 does in a single package ...Show more →
My now ancient 99II does just about everything on your list
p.32 #16 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
RoamingScott wrote:
To my eye, the Canon R5 is shaping up as the finest "all-arounder" hitting the market this year.
- 45mp and 12fps mechanical, good balance between resolution and speed
- Excellent, and possibly class leading, Animal Eye AF
- Great 1080p and 4K options
- Much better IBIS than Sony
- Scalable RAW sizes
- Cutting edge memory support
- Flip out screen with excellent touch control support
- RF lens ecosystem is promising...existing lenses are excellent, future lenses look promising
- EF legacy support seems to support most lenses as well as the 5D4 did
However...if you need:
resolution...Sony A7R4 or GFX100
raw speed and near perfect e-shutter/20fps...A9
low light video...A7S3
For just about every feature the R5 has, there is a Sony option that does it better, however I don't think there's a Sony now or on the radar that does as much as the R5 does in a single package ...Show more →
Sony is going the multiple-camera offerings-route instead of putting it all in a a single package, however, I think Canon should have skipped the 8K silliness and gone for great 4K video that last +1hr (at least), but I guess the marketing department took the lead.
p.32 #17 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
patotts wrote:
Sony is going the multiple-camera offerings-route instead of putting it all in a a single package, however, I think Canon should have skipped the 8K silliness and gone for great 4K video that last +1hr (at least), but I guess the marketing department took the lead.
Sony has been doing this for 3 generations now with 4 bodies. In practicality, the only 2 models they could merge are the A7 and A7S if the tech caught up to allow it. Canon has always had essentially 4 body styles in their full frame line up...lower res/framerate base model (6D), similar megapixel model but more durable with better performance (5D), high resolution (5DsR) and high framerate action (1Ds). It's not all that dissimilar from Sony, but the R5 managed to squeeze quite a bit of features into a single body.
Jul 28, 2020 at 04:11 PM
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p.32 #18 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
ilkka_nissila wrote:
But videographers don't want to pay video camera prices, they want still photographers to pay for the development of cameras that have advanced video features so that they only have to pay a fraction of the cost of video cameras with similar sensor size.
that infers that hybrid cameras somehow have functional parity with dedicated video cameras, but they don't, it's not even close, and the prices reflect that.
much of what is in a7/a9 cameras came from other sony platforms, that are far more cutting-edge than what we have... still photographers didn't pay for tech development of other platforms.
for example, sony made stacked sensors for other applications well before the a9 had it.
will a7/a9 ever get integrated a.i. sensors? "Sony has announced the world’s first image sensor with integrated AI smarts. The new IMX500 sensor incorporates both processing power and memory, allowing it to perform machine learning-powered computer vision tasks without extra hardware. The result, says Sony, will be faster, cheaper, and more secure AI cameras." https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/14/21258403/sony-image-sensor-integrated-ai-chip-imx500-specs-price
it should be obvious by now that the market doesn't want stills-only cameras, that's why nobody makes 'em.
p.32 #19 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
one thing not being mentioned is the bad EVF lag on the R5. Its no action camera...see Northrup video when Chelsea takes the camera birding. They show a clip of the lag and its very similar to the A7RIV there...maybe a touch worse! No thanks...A9ii for me
mogul wrote:
My now ancient 99II does just about everything on your list
p.32 #20 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
I may agree with you on it being a great all-rounder, if, and only if, the sensor read out speed if fast enough to support capturing fast moving objects. For example, I can't use my a7r4 to capture hummingbirds with the electronic shutter. The a9 has no issue with this.
Can the R5 do hummingbirds or football players with electronic shutter? If it can, it will be a fantastic camera and would certainly get my attention. Both for being a great all-rounder and for the lens lineup, both the older lenses and huge used market and new RF lenses. However, if the sensor read out speed is not sufficient to capture fast motion with the electronic shutter, it will be a dud as far as I'm concerned.
I've not read every page here and I know it's not available yet, but is there any information on using the electronic shutter for fast action?
RoamingScott wrote:
To my eye, the Canon R5 is shaping up as the finest "all-arounder" hitting the market this year.
- 45mp and 12fps mechanical, good balance between resolution and speed
- Excellent, and possibly class leading, Animal Eye AF
- Great 1080p and 4K options
- Much better IBIS than Sony
- Scalable RAW sizes
- Cutting edge memory support
- Flip out screen with excellent touch control support
- RF lens ecosystem is promising...existing lenses are excellent, future lenses look promising
- EF legacy support seems to support most lenses as well as the 5D4 did
However...if you need:
resolution...Sony A7R4 or GFX100
raw speed and near perfect e-shutter/20fps...A9
low light video...A7S3
For just about every feature the R5 has, there is a Sony option that does it better, however I don't think there's a Sony now or on the radar that does as much as the R5 does in a single package ...Show more →
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