p.30 #1 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
My issue with flexible spot is it's too small (even in size large) for faces and too slow to move across the frame with the joystick. If there are 2+ people on opposite ends of the frame I need to hold the joystick down for 1+ seconds to switch focus. If they are moving then I need to "chase" them with the flexible spot marker (joystick) or attempt to re-frame constantly to keep their eye under the marker. With AF-C wide the camera does the tracking for me and being able to flick the joystick to move to a new subject would be huge for my use. The same is true with birds where I am constantly moving the flexible spot but have trouble keeping it in the right position over the birds eye and often end up with the wrong area in focus. The bird eye-AF looks like a huge game changer for this. Great example at 5:08 here vs. A7III:
The touchscreen probably mitigates this but I keep mine disabled as it becomes pressed inadvertently too often.
I just hope Sony enable a similar functionality if I continue using them.
Holger wrote:
This is probably useful when using wide etc.
We often have many people in the frame and this wouldn't be that useful in that case. Flexible spot + eye/face detect only picks the eye of the person where the flex spot is. So I can choose directly from the beginning which person to focus on. Additionally, if I want to focus on a detail somewhere just point the spot to it and it focuses without going to some eye or the closest thing.
I always want to control where the focus is.
I don't have anything against more options. Fine if it would be helpful to some, I can't think of any use for *me*.
p.30 #3 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
AlphaPhotography wrote:
My issue with flexible spot is it's too small (even in size large) for faces and too slow to move across the frame with the joystick. If there are 2+ people on opposite ends of the frame I need to hold the joystick down for 1+ seconds to switch focus. If they are moving then I need to "chase" them with the flexible spot marker (joystick) or attempt to re-frame constantly to keep their eye under the marker. With AF-C wide the camera does the tracking for me and being able to flick the joystick to move to a new subject would be huge for my use. The same is true with birds where I am constantly moving the flexible spot but have trouble keeping it in the right position over the birds eye and often end up with the wrong area in focus. The bird eye-AF looks like a huge game changer for this. Great example at 5:08 here vs. A7III:
The touchscreen probably mitigates this but I keep mine disabled as it becomes pressed inadvertently too often.
I just hope Sony enable a similar functionality if I continue using them.
p.30 #6 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
scrappydog wrote:
What exactly is the fine print? In small letters, "this camera won't work if you use it"? On the surface, this appears to be consumer fraud. This isn't a hard sell to a jury nor to a judge. It doesn't matter if Canon has a US subsidiary; if a competent plaintiff's firm wants to pursue the case, they will prosecute the organization responsible.
I hope Canon takes a well deserved reputational hit. I also hope the new Blackmagic camera and A7sIII work perfectly, to (hopefully) make quite clear to the Canon fanboys that a "professional" camera is one whose baseline features work exactly as expected by the consumer.
They said the camera *can* take 8K video. They never guaranteed how long it will be taking 8K video and it wouldn’t burn your hand It’s a bit like the MPG claims of the Japanese car makers... feel free to sue
p.30 #7 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
AlphaPhotography wrote:
My issue with flexible spot is it's too small (even in size large) for faces and too slow to move across the frame with the joystick. If there are 2+ people on opposite ends of the frame I need to hold the joystick down for 1+ seconds to switch focus. If they are moving then I need to "chase" them with the flexible spot marker (joystick) or attempt to re-frame constantly to keep their eye under the marker. With AF-C wide the camera does the tracking for me and being able to flick the joystick to move to a new subject would be huge for my use. The same is true with birds where I am constantly moving the flexible spot but have trouble keeping it in the right position over the birds eye and often end up with the wrong area in focus. The bird eye-AF looks like a huge game changer for this. Great example at 5:08 here vs. A7III:
The touchscreen probably mitigates this but I keep mine disabled as it becomes pressed inadvertently too often.
I just hope Sony enable a similar functionality if I continue using them. ...Show more →
It is not too small. We are on small 95% of the time and on medium the rest when it is dark. Use the flexible spot and tracking on A7riv and A9/A9ii and it sticks with the thing or person, no need for wide.
If not use the touch screen. Super fast to move the point from one side to the other. Or use a certain part of the lcd as af sensitive area. With eye on the EVF you can use your thumb to move the point over the screen using the lcd.
It is a matter of practice. We now have a million images in 5 years using the flex spot during events or other shootings. In my experience the quickest way when wanting to control focus.
p.30 #8 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Holger wrote:
It is not too small. We are on small 95% of the time and on medium the rest when it is dark. Use the flexible spot and tracking on A7riv and A9/A9ii and it sticks with the thing or person, no need for wide.
If not use the touch screen. Super fast to move the point from one side to the other. Or use a certain part of the lcd as af sensitive area. With eye on the EVF you can use your thumb to move the point over the screen using the lcd.
It is a matter of practice. We now have a million images in 5 years using the flex spot during events or other shootings. In my experience the quickest way when wanting to control focus. ...Show more →
No one is saying you can't be productive with the way it is now, but you are pretending there is no improvement here. Following with flexible spot, you WILL miss images that you would otherwise be able to get with wide area and Eye AF. Not saying it will be a ton, but you cant tell me that if you are shooting one subject, where framing makes sense on the left, then you see an opportunity on another subject, but framing is best on the right, that you are able to instantly get that focus point over there and get the shot without any delay. You just can't.
Now, it might be quick, but sometimes that means you miss that perfect expression. Will it ruin the day's images? Of course not, but the ease of being able to not worry about where the focus point is in the frame at all, while quickly flicking between faces for cases where two subjects are competing...by a simple gesture with the stick is added speed and flexibility. It's a great option, and one I'd love to have. If you don't need it for your shooting, fine, but don't pretend that it isn't a great development.
Plenty of people got great images at events with manual focus...it didn't make AF not a great development. Plenty of people still get great images at events with DSLRs where they are actively moving the focus point and attempting to keep it on the subjects eye. They do...but they also miss focus a fair bit. This is a further evolution of the great Eye AF features, and they will enable you to miss fewer and fewer shots.
Jul 26, 2020 at 02:39 PM
osv2 Offline • • • • [X]
p.30 #9 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
AlphaPhotography wrote:
Isn't the AF functionality the same with regards to eye-AF and subject selection?
no, the a7iii that you posted doesn't have real-time tracking.
there isn't any need for a joystick when shooting stills with real-time tracking, it's effectively obsolete.
p.30 #10 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Agreed and nicely summed up. Of course I can (and have) gotten by with flexible spot, zone, AF-C wide, etc but to be able to use wide and quickly shift between subjects would be a huge benefit to me and certainly faster than any technique/setting currently available with Sony.
Jman13 wrote:
No one is saying you can't be productive with the way it is now, but you are pretending there is no improvement here. Following with flexible spot, you WILL miss images that you would otherwise be able to get with wide area and Eye AF. Not saying it will be a ton, but you cant tell me that if you are shooting one subject, where framing makes sense on the left, then you see an opportunity on another subject, but framing is best on the right, that you are able to instantly get that focus point over there and get the shot without any delay. You just can't.
Now, it might be quick, but sometimes that means you miss that perfect expression. Will it ruin the day's images? Of course not, but the ease of being able to not worry about where the focus point is in the frame at all, while quickly flicking between faces for cases where two subjects are competing...by a simple gesture with the stick is added speed and flexibility. It's a great option, and one I'd love to have. If you don't need it for your shooting, fine, but don't pretend that it isn't a great development.
Plenty of people got great images at events with manual focus...it didn't make AF not a great development. Plenty of people still get great images at events with DSLRs where they are actively moving the focus point and attempting to keep it on the subjects eye. They do...but they also miss focus a fair bit. This is a further evolution of the great Eye AF features, and they will enable you to miss fewer and fewer shots. ...Show more →
p.30 #11 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Jman13 wrote:
No one is saying you can't be productive with the way it is now, but you are pretending there is no improvement here. Following with flexible spot, you WILL miss images that you would otherwise be able to get with wide area and Eye AF. Not saying it will be a ton, but you cant tell me that if you are shooting one subject, where framing makes sense on the left, then you see an opportunity on another subject, but framing is best on the right, that you are able to instantly get that focus point over there and get the shot without any delay. You just can't.
Now, it might be quick, but sometimes that means you miss that perfect expression. Will it ruin the day's images? Of course not, but the ease of being able to not worry about where the focus point is in the frame at all, while quickly flicking between faces for cases where two subjects are competing...by a simple gesture with the stick is added speed and flexibility. It's a great option, and one I'd love to have. If you don't need it for your shooting, fine, but don't pretend that it isn't a great development.
Plenty of people got great images at events with manual focus...it didn't make AF not a great development. Plenty of people still get great images at events with DSLRs where they are actively moving the focus point and attempting to keep it on the subjects eye. They do...but they also miss focus a fair bit. This is a further evolution of the great Eye AF features, and they will enable you to miss fewer and fewer shots. ...Show more →
The trick is the touch screen. Using the joystick to cycle through the persons from left to right requires several button presses, at minimum one button press. I just touch the subject directly and press the shutter button. With mirrorless we are not always using the EVF, but at least as often use just the LCD to be able to reframe, shoot above the heads etc.
For me there is no quicker way.
Other advantage: you recognise much quicker what happens in your surrounding when looking at the lcd instead of through the EVF. E.g. a sudden movement of a person etc.
As I said, I have nothing against new options being added for others. I won't need it.
p.30 #12 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
That video didn't show or touch on when two subjects are in the frame which is the situation being discussed. The Canon has a new AF implementation to flick the joystick left or right to quickly switch between subjects. Real time tracking doesn't add anything to match this functionality
osv2 wrote:
no, the a7iii that you posted doesn't have real-time tracking.
there isn't any need for a joystick when shooting stills with real-time tracking, it's effectively obsolete.
p.30 #13 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
I keep my touch screen disabled when shooting as it gets pressed inadvertently and sometimes by my nose when using the EVF. I also much prefer composing using the EVF instead of the LCD as you described. Canon's new AF implementation allows me to continue using the EVF without adjusting my hand placement and cycle to the correct subject with one button (joystick) press. I'd think that Sony's AF system is more than capable of the same functionality. It's just a matter of if/when they decide to implement it.
Holger wrote:
The trick is the touch screen. Using the joystick to cycle through the persons from left to right requires several button presses, at minimum one button press. I just touch the subject directly and press the shutter button. With mirrorless we are not always using the EVF, but at least as often use just the LCD to be able to reframe, shoot above the heads etc.
For me there is no quicker way.
Other advantage: you recognise much quicker what happens in your surrounding when looking at the lcd instead of through the EVF. E.g. a sudden movement of a person etc.
As I said, I have nothing against new options being added for others. I won't need it. ...Show more →
p.30 #14 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
Why don't you change setting to disable touch screen with EVF only. Touching with my nose used to drive me nuts until I discovered this setting. AlphaPhotography wrote:
I keep my touch screen disabled when shooting as it gets pressed inadvertently and sometimes by my nose when using the EVF. I also much prefer composing using the EVF instead of the LCD as you described. Canon's new AF implementation allows me to continue using the EVF without adjusting my hand placement and cycle to the correct subject with one button (joystick) press. I'd think that Sony's AF system is more than capable of the same functionality. It's just a matter of if/when they decide to implement it.
p.30 #15 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
AlphaPhotography wrote:
I keep my touch screen disabled when shooting as it gets pressed inadvertently and sometimes by my nose when using the EVF. I also much prefer composing using the EVF instead of the LCD as you described. Canon's new AF implementation allows me to continue using the EVF without adjusting my hand placement and cycle to the correct subject with one button (joystick) press. I'd think that Sony's AF system is more than capable of the same functionality. It's just a matter of if/when they decide to implement it.
There is a setting which prevents accidentally pressing it. You can either make only a certain region touch active when using the EVF or the whole lcd inactive when in EVF mode.
You can do whatever you like of course.
At events using the LCD is in my opinion preferable. I can use the touch screen and my peripheral vision to react quickly to everything happening. Not possible when using the EVF. Additionally, I can focus on subjects (pastor holding something, bouquet, rings, etc. etc.) and different persons randomly at will. You can't do that in wide or in eye-AF mode only. This Canon solution works nicely when you only want to use eye-AF for different subjects.
Just my experience.
p.30 #16 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
I didn't know this. I'll try it out. Thanks for the suggestion!
samosh wrote:
Why don't you change setting to disable touch screen with EVF only. Touching with my nose used to drive me nuts until I discovered this setting.
p.30 #18 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
That was a bit concerning. I wonder if it was in full RAW and not compressed or HEIF. Does Lightroom support R5 files yet? He may have used EXIFtool to edit the file
2xbass wrote:
The AF does look pretty good however that (lack of) highlight recovery looked strange.
p.30 #19 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
2xbass wrote:
The AF does look pretty good however that (lack of) highlight recovery looked strange.
Northrup overexposed the black feathered bird. So nothing seems strange considering a light rock in bright sun.
Jul 26, 2020 at 07:37 PM
osv2 Offline • • • • [X]
p.30 #20 · Sony-shooters thoughts on the Canon R5/R6
AlphaPhotography wrote:
That video didn't show or touch on when two subjects are in the frame which is the situation being discussed.
you put the focus box on whichever subject you want to be in focus, and it tracks only what you choose... the number of people in the frame is irrelevant.
rishi from dpr demonstrated it over a year ago, starting at 1:49 in his real-time af video
"to quickly choose a new subject, let go of the shutter [af button], place the af point over your new subject, then half-press [the af button]"
It’s a bit like the MPG claims of the Japanese car makers... feel free to sue 