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Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors

hanay78
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p.12 #1 · p.12 #1 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors

Thanks!

Fred Miranda wrote:
Hi Hanay,
I will be including Leica glass comparison soon. (M10-R vs A7R IV)

Mar 05, 2022 at 03:24 PM

m43hero
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p.12 #2 · p.12 #2 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors

Reviving this thread.

Anyone have experience with the old(er) Voigtlander Color Skopar 21mm F4.0 or 28mm F3.5 on stock Sony (BSI) sensor?

I'm trying to put together a compact 21/28/50mm travel kit and need some advice. I already have the Nokton 50mm F1.5 II and I'm keeping that lens, as it performs great on my A7RII.

I recently tested the Voigtlander 35mm F2.5 and love the size and rendering of that lens, but found it suffers from smearing in the outer 2/3rds of the image on my A7RII even at F11. Similar issue with the Zeiss Biogon 35mm F2.8. In any case, I am looking for a 28mm, not a 35mm.

I guess the 21 and 28mm being Biogon-based designs will also suffer from corner smearing on the Sony sensor?

I am not looking for optical perfection, but some character and reasonable sharpness stopped-down. I know some will suggest it, but don't like the harsh/crunchy/clinical look of the Ultron 28s. I do have the 7Artisans 28mm F1.4 and love its rendering/performance, but it's a beast of a lens.

Dec 05, 2022 at 06:15 AM

Juha Kannisto
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p.12 #3 · p.12 #3 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors

In my experience 28/3.5 LTM doesn't work that well on Sony (BSI) sensor towards the edges and corners, there is quite much sensor stack related field curvature even on my A7C. Otherwise I like the lens a lot. I have both the black and silver LTM versions.

I also had the Nikon S mount S-Skopar version of that lens earlier and that was really bad on my original A7R.

21/4 also has a bad reputation on Sony sensor although I haven't personally used one. I think 21/3.5 would be a much better choice for Sony sensor (the native one or the VM).

Dec 05, 2022 at 06:23 AM

m43hero
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p.12 #4 · p.12 #4 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors

Thanks @Juha,

That's what I thought. I wouldn't mind some smearing as long as its limited to the very outer parts of the frame, like the last 10-15% or so. I'll be using the lens mostly for snapshots, street, some group portraits, and only the occasional landscape shot etc. Is the 28mm usable in that sense?

I agree the 21/3.5 looks better than the 21/4, it's just that I find the rendering is a bit too clinical for my taste.

Would you mind sharing some pics taken with the 28/3.5?

Dec 05, 2022 at 07:02 AM

bjhurley
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p.12 #5 · p.12 #5 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors

Bastian Kratzke (of the phillipreeve.net team) has been testing a new 28mm lens, not yet released, for which he seems to have much enthusiasm. He hasn't been able to divulge any details (although he has posted at least one photo from it) so I'm not sure if it's m-mount or e-mount, but hopefully it'll be announced soon. Might be worth waiting to see what it is and whether you'd like it.

I've seen some photos taken by others with the old W-Nikkor 28mm/3.5 LTM on Sony A7rii that looked good, a little vignetting but I didn't see any corner smearing. I personally don't mind vignetting but corner smearing is a different matter.

Dec 05, 2022 at 07:06 AM

Juha Kannisto
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p.12 #6 · p.12 #6 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors

m43hero wrote:
Thanks @Juha@,

That's what I thought. I wouldn't mind some smearing as long as its limited to the very outer parts of the frame, like the last 10-15% or so. I'll be using the lens mostly for snapshots, street, some group portraits, and only the occasional landscape shot etc. Is the 28mm usable in that sense?

I agree the 21/3.5 looks better than the 21/4, it's just that I find the rendering is a bit too clinical for my taste.

Would you mind sharing some pics taken with the 28/3.5?

I think the 28/3.5 LTM is quite usable at least on Sony 24 MP bodies like my A7C and A9 if you stop down to f8 or so for infinity shots and focus somewhere midframe, but there is quite noticeable field curvature when observing in critical detail and it might be worse on higher resolution bodies. I did enjoy using the lens on my A9 and later A7C quite a bit but since I got the Ultron 28/2 II I haven't really gone back to using the 28/3.5 much.

These are some of my shots on A7C and A9 with my two versions of 28/3.5 that I could find right now:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/4RSUPUWbpYvUq8uN8
https://photos.app.goo.gl/g6euyVCbRsp2dU1J7
https://photos.app.goo.gl/xGBWTmxGsdmKWedq7
https://photos.app.goo.gl/zZZFLyAUhuHCjSxj7
https://photos.app.goo.gl/VBihs5xLdxx3iddZ7
https://photos.app.goo.gl/i3d1a8XN9TSLxY7G9

Dec 05, 2022 at 07:27 AM

m43hero
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p.12 #7 · p.12 #7 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors

@bjhurley Yes, I've been keeping an eye out for Bastian's review of the mythical 28mm. It's been a while though...

Dec 05, 2022 at 07:52 AM

m43hero
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p.12 #8 · p.12 #8 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors

@Juha Thanks for sharing your images here and in other threads! I love your documentary style of shooting. Looks like a great place to live. I'm yearning to go to Japan some day, amazing culture.

Like you mentioned, I see some corner smearing in some shots, but it looks quite good in most pics. The contrast and tonality looks very good on this lens. Definitely keeping this lens on my short list for 28mm.

Dec 05, 2022 at 08:21 AM

Juha Kannisto
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p.12 #9 · p.12 #9 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors

m43hero wrote:
@Juha@ Thanks for sharing your images here and in other threads! I love your documentary style of shooting. Looks like a great place to live. I'm yearning to go to Japan some day, amazing culture.

Like you mentioned, I see some corner smearing in some shots, but it looks quite good in most pics. The contrast and tonality looks very good on this lens. Definitely keeping this lens on my short list for 28mm.

Thanks! Yes, I think the lens produces a very nice look in general and it's very sharp centrally from wide open.

They are quite hard to find at good prices these days though, I paid about 80K yen for my black version (it was in pristine condition) and almost as much for my silver one.

Dec 05, 2022 at 08:34 AM

rscheffler
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p.12 #10 · p.12 #10 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors

bjhurley wrote:
Bastian Kratzke (of the phillipreeve.net team) has been testing a new 28mm lens, not yet released, for which he seems to have much enthusiasm. He hasn't been able to divulge any details (although he has posted at least one photo from it) so I'm not sure if it's m-mount or e-mount, but hopefully it'll be announced soon. Might be worth waiting to see what it is and whether you'd like it.

Given our 'inside man' (Juha) hasn't come across any new Cosina rumors about another 28mm, I'd guess whatever Bastian is testing will be from one of the Chinese brands he's built relationships with recently.

But I'll still hold out hope for a VM28/1.4.

Dec 06, 2022 at 10:47 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.12 #11 · p.12 #11 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors

rscheffler wrote:
Given our 'inside man' (Juha) hasn't come across any new Cosina rumors about another 28mm, I'd guess whatever Bastian is testing will be from one of the Chinese brands he's built relationships with recently.

But I'll still hold out hope for a VM28/1.4.

Are you still shooting with the 28/1.4 Lux?

Jan 17, 2023 at 06:36 PM

rscheffler
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p.12 #12 · p.12 #12 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors

Yes, I still have and shoot with the 28 Lux. It's a very good lens, IMO, but not perfect (strong purple fringing at wide apertures that persists in the corners on stopping down. I would simply be curious to see how Cosina might respond, considering how well their 21/1.4 performs relative to the fairly old Leica 21 Lux.

I'm still contemplating getting the VM28/2 as a backup to the Lux whenever it needs to visit Leica for a periodic ~2-month-long service visit, which considering the problem I have with it now (slack in the focusing ring when changing focus direction), could be soon.

Jan 18, 2023 at 12:12 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.12 #13 · p.12 #13 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors

rscheffler wrote:
Yes, I still have and shoot with the 28 Lux. It's a very good lens, IMO, but not perfect (strong purple fringing at wide apertures that persists in the corners on stopping down. I would simply be curious to see how Cosina might respond, considering how well their 21/1.4 performs relative to the fairly old Leica 21 Lux.

I'm still contemplating getting the VM28/2 as a backup to the Lux whenever it needs to visit Leica for a periodic ~2-month-long service visit, which considering the problem I have with it now (slack in the focusing ring when changing focus direction),...Show more →

You can't go wrong with the Voigtlander 28/2 II. Super compact and high performance but it's a clinical lens.

I'm sure Voigtlander can produce a CV 28/1.4 Nokton that performs close to the Leica but it may not be as compact. The CV 21/1.4 is a big lens on the M but it's pretty amazing optically. It actually outperforms the 21/3.4 SEM stopped down but only at the very corners.

Jan 18, 2023 at 12:19 PM

rscheffler
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p.12 #14 · p.12 #14 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors

Yes, the VM21/1.4 is quite large but so is the 21 Lux. Based on the VM's specs, it's about 70x70mm. The Lux is 66mm long without hood (77mm with hood) and 69.5mm in diameter. So very similar, but the Lux might look smaller due to its more tapered design compared to the VM's 'barrel' shape.

Considering what Cosina has recently shown, I think they could make something comparable in size and performance to the 28 Lux, at the right price point (higher than most of their VM line and perhaps similar to the 50/1).

Around 7 years ago when I got the 28 Lux, I had specific low-light requirements for it. But that aspect of my work has shifted somewhat to where now I'm more likely using Canon gear with the 28-70/2, which is sharp wide open and has great rendering. I now use the Lux more as a general purpose 28 when using the M system, and could benefit from downsizing to the VM28/2 II.

Jan 18, 2023 at 12:46 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.12 #15 · p.12 #15 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors

rscheffler wrote:
Yes, the VM21/1.4 is quite large but so is the 21 Lux. Based on the VM's specs, it's about 70x70mm. The Lux is 66mm long without hood (77mm with hood) and 69.5mm in diameter. So very similar, but the Lux might look smaller due to its more tapered design compared to the VM's 'barrel' shape.

Considering what Cosina has recently shown, I think they could make something comparable in size and performance to the 28 Lux, at the right price point (higher than most of their VM line and perhaps similar to the 50/1).

Around 7 years ago when I...Show more →

If you prefer the haptics there is always the Leica 28/2 II. It performs very close to the Voigtlander. Specular highlights have slightly more outlining for the Leica but optical vignetting is lower. Resolution and contrast are very similar across the frame from the side by side test I did.

Jan 18, 2023 at 01:06 PM

RexGig0
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p.12 #16 · p.12 #16 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors

Fred Miranda wrote:
The CV 21/1.4 is a big lens on the M but it's pretty amazing optically. It actually outperforms the 21/3.4 SEM stopped down but only at the very corners.

Thanks, Fred. It is good to read this. I almost bought a 21mm SEM, last year, but opted to take other paths, one of which was buying a new Nokton 21mm f/1.4 VM. The Nokton’s size is not objectionable*, in actual practice, and, of course, the Nokton’s aperture opens wider, for night shooting. It is good to know that I did not lose optical performance, by choosing the Nokton 21mm VM.

*I have come to see a large lens as a form of extended grip, enabling the camera body, itself, to be “run slick.” A substantial hood acts as a “hand stop,” as well as a kind of front bumper, to protect the lens. What’s not to like?

Jan 18, 2023 at 01:11 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.12 #17 · p.12 #17 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors

RexGig0 wrote:
Thanks, Fred. It is good to read this. I almost bought a 21mm SEM, last year, but opted to take other paths, one of which was buying a new Nokton 21mm f/1.4 VM. The Nokton’s size is not objectionable*, in actual practice, and, of course, the Nokton’s aperture opens wider, for night shooting. It is good to know that I did not lose optical performance, by choosing the Nokton 21mm VM.

*I have come to see a large lens as a form of extended grip, enabling the camera body, itself, to be “run slick.” A substantial hood acts as a...Show more →

The CV 21/1.4 Nokton also performs great on the SL. I was quite surprised to see crispy corners starting at f/4 just like on the M10-R. It does not play well on the Sony.
The Leica 21/3.4 SEM is an older design but I still think it's the best compact 21mm for the M. If I remember correctly it was introduced with the Leica M9-P ten years ago.

Jan 18, 2023 at 01:15 PM

hanay78
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p.12 #18 · p.12 #18 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors

Which Mandler glass performs good in the Sony cameras ? I have tele-elmar 135, elmarit 28 iii and cron 50, and they perform ok, probably the 28 is the weakest in the corners. Who has experience with other lenses ?

Jun 18, 2023 at 10:46 AM

BastianK
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p.12 #19 · p.12 #19 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors

hanay78 wrote:
Which Mandler glass performs good in the Sony cameras ? I have tele-elmar 135, elmarit 28 iii and cron 50, and they perform ok, probably the 28 is the weakest in the corners. Who has experience with other lenses ?
90mm 2.0 pre Asph does pretty well, I updated my review a few weeks ago:
https://phillipreeve.net/blog/review-leica-90mm-2-0-summicron-m/

Jun 18, 2023 at 10:49 AM

hanay78
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p.12 #20 · p.12 #20 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors

I agree. I had one in my hand some weeks ago in a shop. The rendering was delicious. I did not buy it because of other issues of that particular lens. But the colors, bokeh,... was fantastic. I was very impressed

BastianK wrote:
90mm 2.0 pre Asph does pretty well, I updated my review a few weeks ago:
https://phillipreeve.net/blog/review-leica-90mm-2-0-summicron-m/

Jun 18, 2023 at 02:35 PM

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