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Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors
  
 
Fred Miranda
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors


Since acquiring a Leica body, I've been testing my M-mount lenses on both Sony and Leica bodies and wanted to share which lenses perform well for on sensors.


Results Summary:
  1. M-lenses performing similarly on Sony and Leica:
    1. Voigtlander 10mm f/5.6
    2. Voigtlander 12mm f/5.6 III
    3. Voigtlander 15mm f/4.5 III
    4. Voigtlander 21mm f/3.5
    5. Voigtlander 75mm f/1.5

  2. M-lenses performing better on Leica and still "OK" on Sony:
    1. Voigtlander 35mm f/1.2 III
    2. Voigtlander 50mm f/1.5 II

  3. M-lenses performing noticeably better on Leica:
    1. Voigtlander 21mm f/1.4
    2. Voigtlander 28mm f/2
    3. Voigtlander 35mm f/2.5


Comparisons will be made for following lenses: (More lenses may be added in the future)

  1. Voigtlander 28mm f/2 Ultron - View comparison
    (CameraQuest | Amazon | B&H Photo)

  2. Voigtlander 75mm f/1.5 Nokton - View Comparison
    (CameraQuest | Amazon | B&H Photo)

  3. Voigtlander 21mm f/3.5 Color-Skopar - View Comparison
    (CameraQuest | Amazon | B&H Photo)

  4. Voigtlander 21mm f/1.4 Nokton - View Comparison
    (CameraQuest | Amazon | B&H Photo)

  5. Voigtlander 12mm f/5.6 III Heliar - View Comparison
    (CameraQuest | B&H Photo)

  6. Voigtlander 35mm f/1.2 III Nokton - View Comparison
    (CameraQuest | Amazon | B&H Photo)

  7. Voigtlander 50mm f/1.5 II Nokton - View Comparison


    Today I will start with the Voigtlander 28mm f/2 Ultron. At infinity, the Sony's thicker glass stack induces field curvature for this lens optical design as shown below. Keep in mind that my CV 28/2 copy does not quite focus at infinity at the hard stop. (slightly behind it) so the Sony will appear a little sharper at center. Consider they should perform identically at center. Once I get my copy calibrated, I will update these crops.

    Voigtlander 28mm f/2 Ultron










    1. Distance: Infinity
    2. Focus: Center - Best of three @ high magnification
    3. WB: Daylight for both systems
    4. Vignetting and distortion were NOT corrected
    5. Sony A7RII files downsampled to 24MP to match the Leica resolution
    6. Same sharpening used for both cameras once files were normalized. (Not other corrections in LR)


    PS: Disregard Leica's aperture settings. The camera does not record aperture accurately. It's just an estimation and it's usually wrong.

    _______________________


    Voigtlander 28mm f/2 Ultron: Center resolution comparison only Sony and Leica bodies





    Center at f/2







    Center at f/2.8







    Center at f/4







    Center at f/5.6







    Center at f/8
May 23, 2020 at 03:14 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors


Voigtlander 28mm f/2 Ultron: Mid-field resolution comparison only Sony and Leica bodies





Mid-field at f/2







Mid-field at f/2.8







Mid-field at f/4







Mid-field at f/5.6







Mid-field at f/8
May 23, 2020 at 03:19 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors


Voigtlander 28mm f/2 Ultron: Extreme corner resolution comparison only Sony and Leica bodies





Extreme corner at f/2







Extreme corner at f/2.8







Extreme corner at f/4







Extreme corner at f/5.6







Extreme corner at f/8
May 23, 2020 at 03:20 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors


Based on the above crops, I would consider the Voigtlander 28/2 Ultron a great performer on the Leica body. It should perform even better than what the crops show since my copy does not quite reach infinity at the lens' hard stop.
It does not perform well on the Sony due to induced field curvature.

Next: Voigtlander 75mm f/1.5 Nokton!
May 23, 2020 at 03:24 PM
pmeheut
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors


Fred Miranda wrote:
Based on the above crops, I would consider the Voigtlander 28/2 Ultron a great performer on the Leica body.

Indeed. I have own and a Leica 28mm Summicron, last version. The Leica is impressive, almost sharp corner to corner wide open but the Voigt is very good for the price.
May 23, 2020 at 04:32 PM
thepaulbrown
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors


Hi Fred. Do you no longer have the Zeiss 35mm 1.4?
May 23, 2020 at 04:45 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors


thepaulbrown wrote:
Hi Fred. Do you no longer have the Zeiss 35mm 1.4?

No, I sold it but it was another example of an outstanding lens on the Leica which did not work well on the Sony. I will post some crops for this one as well.
May 23, 2020 at 05:16 PM
thepaulbrown
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors


Thank you. I guess you found the Voigtlander 35mm 1.2 III to be as good/better?
May 23, 2020 at 05:30 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors


thepaulbrown wrote:
Thank you. I guess you found the Voigtlander 35mm 1.2 III to be as good/better?

I've tested them side by side on the Leica and I don't think there is a clear winner. The 35/1.4 ZM is capable of higher resolution + contrast at infinity and even more so at close distance. At f/5.6 and smaller, the difference is much smaller.

Personally, I much prefer the Voigtlander's smoother rendering. At mid distance, OOF rendering for the Zeiss can look more structured (harsher) in comparison so it really depends on what you prefer.
The Zeiss is equipped with a floating element system which gives it a clear advantage at close distance + wide apertures.

I will post the results for both Sony and Leica but my initial impression is that the Zeiss has more issues with the Sony's thicker sensor stack than the Voigtlander.
May 23, 2020 at 09:26 PM
thepaulbrown
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors


Thanks again Fred. I've been shooting the 35/1.4 ZM on Sony A7III and I've been contemplating getting an M body for it or now maybe just get the Voigtlander in exchange. I'm very excited to see your findings.
May 24, 2020 at 01:46 AM
 


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Steve Spencer
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors


I had five Leica M lenses that all worked reasonably well on my Sony A7r II and very well on the Leica M10 I had at the time. They were the 16-21 f/4 WATE, the 28 f/1.4 Summilux Asph, the 50 f/2 Summicron APO, the 90 f/2 Summicron APO, and the 90 f/4 Elmar Macro.

The WATE, the 28 Summilux, and the 50 Summicron APO, were all clear a bit better on the Leica M10, but they did quite well on the Sony as well. I can provide examples on the Sony if that is at all useful. The lens I liked best was the 50 Summicron APO, but at this point I can't imagine why someone would get that for the Sony with the Voigtlander 50 f/2 APO available, but I suppose if you wanted a lens for both systems it would be an option at least unless/until Voigtlander made a version for Leica M.

I also had the Zeiss ZM 35 f/1.4 and my experience was very much as Fred describes above. It had quite a bit more astigmatism/field curvature on the Sony, but even on the Leica had somewhat harsh bokeh at mid distance. it had wonderful sharpness, contrast, and clarity, however. So, I found it great on both cameras for certain types of shots (infinity focus stopped dtown, and close ups), but not so good for others (mid distance portraits with any type of difficult background).

Edited on May 24, 2020 at 10:28 AM · View previous versions
May 24, 2020 at 09:25 AM
retrofocus
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors


So far I really like my CV 28/2 M-lens both on Leica M film cameras and attached on my A7R. Photos below are taken with this lens on my A7R (uncropped).
May 24, 2020 at 09:49 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors


retrofocus wrote:
So far I really like my CV 28/2 M-lens both on Leica M film cameras and attached on my A7R. Photos below are taken with this lens on my A7R (uncropped).

]https://martinbluhm.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-10/p2499994440-5.jpg

https://martinbluhm.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-10/p2499994436-5.jpg

https://martinbluhm.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-10/p2499995278-5.jpg



Great images!

Although not optimal, It's definitely usable on Sony cameras. At center it performs the same and if you focus towards the mid-field, it will still be sharp since the main culprit is exaggerated field curvature. The only issue would be when shooting with wide apertures at mid distance where the OOF background could sharpen up towards the edges due to induced field curvature.
Like you, I also use it on the Sony and like the results.
May 24, 2020 at 10:50 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors


Voigtlander 75mm f/1.5 Nokton






?ts=1621794958










  1. Distance: Infinity
  2. Focus: Center - Best of three @ high magnification
  3. WB: Daylight for both systems
  4. Vignetting and distortion were NOT corrected
  5. Sony A7RII files downsampled to 24MP to match the Leica resolution
  6. Same sharpening used for both cameras once files were normalized. (Not other corrections in LR)


PS: Disregard Leica's aperture settings. The camera does not record aperture accurately. It's just an estimation and it's usually wrong.

_______________________


Voigtlander 75mm f/1.5 Nokton: Center resolution comparison only Sony and Leica bodies





Center at f/1.5







Center at f/2







Center at f/2.8







Center at f/4







Center at f/5.6







Center at f/8
May 25, 2020 at 07:03 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors


Voigtlander 75mm f/1.5 Nokton: Mid-field resolution comparison only Sony and Leica bodies





Mid-field at f/1.5







Mid-field at f/2







Mid-field at f/2.8







Mid-field at f/4







Mid-field at f/5.6







Mid-field at f/8
May 25, 2020 at 07:04 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors


Voigtlander 75mm f/1.5 Nokton: Extreme corner resolution comparison only Sony and Leica bodies





Extreme corner at f/1.5







Extreme corner at f/2







Extreme corner at f/2.8







Extreme corner at f/4







Extreme corner at f/5.6







Extreme corner at f/8
May 25, 2020 at 07:05 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors


Based on the above performance on both Sony and Leica cameras, it'd say the Voigtlander 75/1.5 Nokton performs similarly on both systems. At first when I wrote my Voigtlander 75/1.5 Nokton review, I had assumed the weaker mid-field performance wide open was due to Sony's thicker sensor stack but it's just not the case. It seems to be a characteristic of this lens.

So, for those Sony shooters who are waiting for the CV 75/1.5 E-mount, the current M-mount should be just as good.
May 25, 2020 at 07:12 PM
retrofocus
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors


Fred Miranda wrote:
Based on the above performance on both Sony and Leica cameras, it'd say the Voigtlander 75/1.5 Nokton performs similarly on both systems. At first when I wrote my Voigtlander 75/1.5 Nokton review, I had assumed the weaker mid-field performance wide open was due to Sony's thicker sensor stack but it's just not the case. It seems to be a characteristic of this lens.

So, for those Sony shooters who are waiting for the CV 75/1.5 E-mount, the current M-mount should be just as good.

So far confirms the rule of thumb with M lenses on Sony MLCs that at focal lengths with 35 mm and above plus wider open rear lens (apertures f/2 and wider open) work well on unmodified Sony sensors with thicker stack. It's only with wider lenses (and/or smaller rear lens element) where the angle of refraction is steeper especially towards the borders/corners of the FF sensor that some unsharpness and color fringing can occur.


May 26, 2020 at 10:10 AM
d.s.
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors




Fred Miranda wrote:
  1. Distance: Infinity
  2. Focus: Center - Best of three @ high magnification
  3. WB: Daylight for both systems
  4. Vignetting and distortion were NOT corrected
  5. Sony A7RII files downsampled to 24MP to match the Leica resolution
  6. Same sharpening used for both cameras once files were normalized. (Not other corrections in LR)


PS: Disregard Leica's aperture settings. The camera does not record accurate aperture setting. It's just an estimate and it's usually wrong.

_______________________

Voigtlander 75mm f/1.5 Nokton: Center resolution comparison only Sony and Leica bodies

A highly appreciated thread on my end. Are we seeing some color differences because of the sensors or is it the slight difference in exposure?
May 26, 2020 at 08:55 PM
Steve Spencer
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Best Voigtlander M-mount lenses for Leica and Sony sensors


retrofocus wrote:
So far confirms the rule of thumb with M lenses on Sony MLCs that at focal lengths with 35 mm and above plus wider open rear lens (apertures f/2 and wider open) work well on unmodified Sony sensors with thicker stack. It's only with wider lenses (and/or smaller rear lens element) where the angle of refraction is steeper especially towards the borders/corners of the FF sensor that some unsharpness and color fringing can occur.

I would characterize the rule of thumb slightly differently. In particular a lot of 35mm lenses perform poorly on Sony cameras with the thicker sensor stack. The Leica M 35 f/2 Asph for example is one of the lenses most affected by the thick sensor stack and the Leica 35 f/1.4 Asph is noticeably affected as is the Zeiss ZM 35 f/1.4. Even the Voigtlander 35 f/1.7 is quite affected.

So, I would say as a rule of thumb that wider than 50mm most lenses are affected by the thicker sensor stack and even 50mm lenses are mildly affected. Longer than 50mm, however, lenses tend to be only mildly affected. One of the crucial variables in whether a lens is affected by the sensor stack thickness is the exit pupil of the lens. Lenses with shorter exit pupils will be more affected, and longer lenses tend to have longer exit pupils. Most 35mm lenses have pretty short exit pupils too.
May 27, 2020 at 02:58 PM
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