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Archive 2020 · EOS-R5....will it live up to the hype?

  
 
Ziffl3
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p.32 #1 · EOS-R5....will it live up to the hype?


I am not even sure the sandisk 512gb CFE will be fast enough.
will will have to see.
jumping over to the video side.... (hold on) blackmagic 6K pocket CC... there are only a few SSD that are certified and fast enough as to not drop frames when shooting 6K video.

it will be fun to see how this gear shakes out.




Apr 21, 2020 at 01:45 PM
rbeasley
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p.32 #2 · EOS-R5....will it live up to the hype?


arbitrage wrote:
Anyone wanting the R5 for video, especially 8K video, make sure you add a few of these to your budget:
Sandisk 512GB CFE

The smaller capacity cards can't even record the 5.5K of the 1DXIII. Only the largest capacity cards are fast enough...of course for 8K you will need all the space you can get anyways....

Maybe the 128GB and 256GB cards will be fast enough but they have slower write speeds than the 512 one. The 64GB card is a no go even with 5.5K so forget that.

The nice thing with CFExpress which has really never been the case for other memory
...Show more

I guess I have been lucky. I have shot the 5.5 video to both 64 and 128 gb cards in the 1dx3. I haven't shot a lot, and I think the 64 gigs provides 5:58 in record time at 60fps.



Apr 21, 2020 at 02:06 PM
adamx12m
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p.32 #3 · EOS-R5....will it live up to the hype?


rbeasley wrote:
I guess I have been lucky. I have shot the 5.5 video to both 64 and 128 gb cards in the 1dx3. I haven't shot a lot, and I think the 64 gigs provides 5:58 in record time at 60fps.


Recording times from videos I've seen comparing 1dx3 vs c300/c500/red/blackmagic;

1dx3 5.5 raw
512gb card
36 mins @ 24p
25 mins @ 60p

1dx3 4k 10bit 422 all-I
512gb card
140 mins @ 24p
70 mins @ 60p

They all conclude that 1dx3 creates massive files which may be fine for content creators but not tasks like documentaries. The R5 with cheaper SD media will be helpful.



Apr 21, 2020 at 02:44 PM
RoamingScott
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p.32 #4 · EOS-R5....will it live up to the hype?


Did some math on my Sony system...if the R5 comes in at 3500, it's an instant buy for me.

I'd love to get the 100-500 off the bat, but would probably just adapt the 100-400ii for a while until I can get a used 100-500.

Same with a 16-35, no reason not to get a used EF version for now. This body is shaping up to be just about everything I've wanted from a single camera for a long time, and the prospect of picking up CHEAP EF glass is very appealing. You know the big whites will be fire-selling the moment an RF variant is out.



Apr 21, 2020 at 03:05 PM
rbeasley
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p.32 #5 · EOS-R5....will it live up to the hype?


adamx12m wrote:
Recording times from videos I've seen comparing 1dx3 vs c300/c500/red/blackmagic;

1dx3 5.5 raw
512gb card
36 mins @ 24p
25 mins @ 60p

1dx3 4k 10bit 422 all-I
512gb card
140 mins @ 24p
70 mins @ 60p

They all conclude that 1dx3 creates massive files which may be fine for content creators but not tasks like documentaries. The R5 with cheaper SD media will be helpful.


Not sure what that has to do with my post. I was merely pointing out I can record the raw video to my 1dx3 with the 64gb card, and it gives me 5:58 of recording time. I was replying to a post saying you can't record with the 64 or possibly 128 gb cards in 5.5k raw. I may be an exception. I don't know.




Apr 21, 2020 at 04:12 PM
arbitrage
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p.32 #6 · EOS-R5....will it live up to the hype?


rbeasley wrote:
I guess I have been lucky. I have shot the 5.5 video to both 64 and 128 gb cards in the 1dx3. I haven't shot a lot, and I think the 64 gigs provides 5:58 in record time at 60fps.


Thanks for that first hand info. I'd read that the 64GB wasn't working for people for 5.5K RAW. I guess that isn't correct?



Apr 21, 2020 at 04:45 PM
adamx12m
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p.32 #7 · EOS-R5....will it live up to the hype?


rbeasley wrote:
Not sure what that has to do with my post. I was merely pointing out I can record the raw video to my 1dx3 with the 64gb card, and it gives me 5:58 of recording time. I was replying to a post saying you can't record with the 64 or possibly 128 gb cards in 5.5k raw. I may be an exception. I don't know.



It's was just more fyi to everybody regarding the amount of recording time on 1dx3 even with a 512gb cf card. I got lost in the original context of your message, sorry.




Apr 21, 2020 at 05:18 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.32 #8 · EOS-R5....will it live up to the hype?


EverLearning wrote:
gdanmitchell, i agree size of market influences price, but if your means of increasing 'market' is increasing price by adding all kinds of extras, the subsequent reduction in price due to enhanced market reach doesn't offset that increase. If it did, everything - cars, TVs, furnaces, cameras, computers, etc - would just come fully spec'ed out. Such is not the case.


The incremental costs of adding video capability to these still cameras is almost certainly very small by comparison to the base price of producing the units.

The savings from removing the video capability would likely be trivial. The costs of maintaining two separate lines would be much larger. And don't forget that some percentage of the market actually WANTS the video capability in the still camera, and some additional percentage (including me) discovers often buying their still camera that it is sometimes useful to have video capability as well from time to time.

Video is just another feature that some users find attractive, but not all care about — think of features like face-detection, ultra-fast burst modes, some of the esoteric AF modes, the ability to work with electronic flash, etc.

There are some marketing concepts behind how products are specified that may not be at work in this case. People do not select products for wholly rational reasons. One reason that, for example, many car models come with three levels is that this represents a rough division of the market into three groups: those looking for the very lowest price, those who want a basic model with typical so-called extras (and who have an aversion to the "cheapest thing"), and those who want it all.

Someone I knew worked at a major software firm many years ago. This company had produced a first-of-its type productivity product that ended up being hugely successful.

This person — who was on the software development side, it was basically "his" product — told me about meetings that included the heads of the marketing team, the engineering team, and others. The question came up, "How should we price this thing?"

The answer from the marketing team was not, as you many be surprised to hear, to price it based on the actual production costs — e.g, if production cost X than the price should be X + profit margin. The answer was, to paraphrase: "Well... you could sell it for $450 (pre-1990), in a nice box, accompanied by thick manuals with high production values. Or... you could sell it for $49.95 in a small cardboard box with an inexpensive manual. You'll likely make about the same profit in the end."

The bottom line here is that I'm baffled that folks are so up in arms about the fact that their great still camera also has some additional features that don't interfere with their still photography, might potentially have some use, and which enlarge the market of the cameras, allowing the development and production costs to be spread over a larger number of units.

Dan



Apr 21, 2020 at 05:54 PM
rbeasley
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p.32 #9 · EOS-R5....will it live up to the hype?


arbitrage wrote:
Thanks for that first hand info. I'd read that the 64GB wasn't working for people for 5.5K RAW. I guess that isn't correct?


Knock on wood I could be lucky. I can record the raw video to the 64gb card although I don't. I have tired a few clips and it worked. I have used 128gb cards mostly. It eats them up fast. I get 6 minutes with he 64gb card. I wondered off topic though.



Apr 21, 2020 at 06:44 PM
EB-1
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p.32 #10 · EOS-R5....will it live up to the hype?


gdanmitchell wrote:
The bottom line here is that I'm baffled that folks are so up in arms about the fact that their great still camera also has some additional features that don't interfere with their still photography, might potentially have some use, and which enlarge the market of the cameras, allowing the development and production costs to be spread over a larger number of units.

Dan


I'm trying to understand the 45MP sensor. It's hard to belive that Canon would reduce resolution after 5 years unless it has something to do with crippling it for the videos.

EBH



Apr 21, 2020 at 06:45 PM
Ziffl3
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p.32 #11 · EOS-R5....will it live up to the hype?


EB-1 wrote:
I'm trying to understand the 45MP sensor. It's hard to belive that Canon would reduce resolution after 5 years unless it has something to do with crippling it for the videos.

EBH


I am not following you.
a 45meg sensor is really large for video. It is a nice jump for the 5D IV series too.
Really, a very large sensor for wedding/event shooting. but the CRAW is a really good option. I currently use for reception coverage.(EOS R)

There is technology considerations when pushing 6K or 8K full frame video.
As people will find out.... there will be need to output video to an external ssd. Then the ssd needs to be able to handle the data flow without losing frames. As in verified 580Mb/s+

Overall, the camera becomes more exciting to a bigger set of end users with a slightly lower resolution and kick but video.

Maybe there is a high res version on the road-map? say 2021/2022.





Apr 21, 2020 at 07:19 PM
drimer
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p.32 #12 · EOS-R5....will it live up to the hype?


Unless... a ~80 MP body is coming soon with the 90D pixel density. Then there’s no need to chase higher res here.

This is a replacement of a 30 MP body, and 45 MP is more than enough for me. Too much more would just bog down the laptop and hard drives for my uses.

In 5 years we’ve gone from 5 fps at 50 MP to 12/20 fps at 45MP with better image quality, new lenses, and autofocus around the frame. I’m impressed.

If this is under $4000, I’m probably in. 5D ergonomics in a mirrorless form. A real joystick (unlike the R), much faster for sports, eye AF, full frame AF without microadjustments, IBIS, better low-light performance (AF and ISO), and access to RF glass. We’ll see how this compares to the original 1DX for sports at the same frame rate.

Now, all we need is a release date and price!

EB-1 wrote:
I'm trying to understand the 45MP sensor. It's hard to belive that Canon would reduce resolution after 5 years unless it has something to do with crippling it for the videos.

EBH




Apr 21, 2020 at 07:23 PM
arbitrage
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p.32 #13 · EOS-R5....will it live up to the hype?


I really hope that the Animal Head/Eye AF isn't only available in the full Auto AF mode. I would hope that it would be like Sony where you can use anything from Full Auto (Sony's Wide) all the way down to Spot AF (Sony's Small Flex Spot) in order to have more control when needed. Sometimes Full Array AF is the best option, but other times it isn't. I think that up to this point all of Canon's Human Tracking modes are only available in the Full Auto AF mode.

I also wish they had added the 1DXIII's fancy AF-ON button but I guess that will be reserved for the R1.



Apr 21, 2020 at 07:59 PM
RoamingScott
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p.32 #14 · EOS-R5....will it live up to the hype?


There’s a reason cars come in 4-5 trims per model. Not everyone wants the kitchen sink, nor wants to pay for the kitchen sink, if all they need is a commuter.

gdanmitchell wrote:
The bottom line here is that I'm baffled that folks are so up in arms about the fact that their great still camera also has some additional features that don't interfere with their still photography, might potentially have some use, and which enlarge the market of the cameras, allowing the development and production costs to be spread over a larger number of units.

Dan




Apr 21, 2020 at 08:45 PM
lighthound
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p.32 #15 · EOS-R5....will it live up to the hype?


arbitrage wrote:
Sometimes Full Array AF is the best option, but other times it isn't. I think that up to this point all of Canon's Human Tracking modes are only available in the Full Auto AF mode.


Splain this to me Lucy?
In what situation have you encountered where you would need/want to be locked into a single AF point over the Full array? Considering how well this eye AF tracking supposedly works, why wouldn't you want to take full advantage of the cameras abilities and let it lock on while you concentrate on the composition?
Is it because it's not full proof and you have to fight with it in certain situations? If so, might this only be a Sony issue and perhaps this wont be the case with the R5?



Apr 21, 2020 at 09:10 PM
stanj
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p.32 #16 · EOS-R5....will it live up to the hype?


lighthound wrote:
Splain this to me Lucy?
In what situation have you encountered where you would need/want to be locked into a single AF point over the Full array? Considering how well this eye AF tracking supposedly works, why wouldn't you want to take full advantage of the cameras abilities and let it lock on while you concentrate on the composition?
Is it because it's not full proof and you have to fight with it in certain situations? If so, might this only be a Sony issue and perhaps this wont be the case with the R5?


If nothing else, it would narrow down the area where the camera has to look. If I know exactly where I have my subject, or where I'm planning on keeping it, (1) this reduces the chance of false positives, and (2) ideally would give the CPU more time to spend on the right area. It's likely that (2) isn't the case but (1) by itself is worth it. I know for sure that my R sometimes picks up "eyes" in an area where they decidedly are not, while my a7r4 will look for them only where I tell it to. I find that a huge plus.

One example: two people, f2 lens. I know I will get only one in focus, it's always the left one. With the Sony I switch to "Spot, Large" or "Zone" and move the rectangle to the left person. With the R it's deciding between left and right person, and while I know that I can switch between them, the camera periodically decides that it really wants the right person, and I need to argue with it. Why is it so bad to have this as an option? You can go "Full Wide". Or just "Zone". Still Eye AF.

Now of course I'm not Lucy so this may not count.



Apr 21, 2020 at 10:22 PM
EB-1
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p.32 #17 · EOS-R5....will it live up to the hype?


gdanmitchell wrote:
The bottom line here is that I'm baffled that folks are so up in arms about the fact that their great still camera also has some additional features that don't interfere with their still photography, might potentially have some use, and which enlarge the market of the cameras, allowing the development and production costs to be spread over a larger number of units.

Dan

EB-1 wrote:
I'm trying to understand the 45MP sensor. It's hard to belive that Canon would reduce resolution after 5 years unless it has something to do with crippling it for the videos.

EBH

drimer wrote:
Unless... a ~80 MP body is coming soon with the 90D pixel density. Then there’s no need to chase higher res here.

This is a replacement of a 30 MP body, and 45 MP is more than enough for me. Too much more would just bog down the laptop and hard drives for my uses.

In 5 years we’ve gone from 5 fps at 50 MP to 12/20 fps at 45MP with better image quality, new lenses, and autofocus around the frame. I’m impressed.

If this is under $4000, I’m probably in. 5D ergonomics in a mirrorless form. A real joystick (unlike the
...Show more

Did Canon state that the 45MP body was a replacement for the 30MP 5D IV body rather than 50MP 5DsR?

EBH



Apr 22, 2020 at 12:16 AM
JaimitoFrog
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p.32 #18 · EOS-R5....will it live up to the hype?



EB-1 wrote:
Did Canon state that the 45MP body was a replacement for the 30MP 5D IV body rather than 50MP 5DsR?

EBH


Read somewhere that Canon said directly that the R5 is not a 5D4 replacement. They said it is in the same class as the 5 series, hence the 5. Clearly, they are making the room of a possible DSLR replacement of 5D4 or 5DSR if the market is there.

It really doesn't matter. If it fits your work flow, buy it. I stopped using my 5D4 after I got the R. Will likely trade in both my 5D4 and R in for the R5. I got rid of my 5DsR a few yrs ago. Keeping the RP and 1DXII for now.



Apr 22, 2020 at 01:58 AM
LS_Ren
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p.32 #19 · EOS-R5....will it live up to the hype?


Just a theoretical question. So if the R5 is capable of 4K120, does that mean in that particular video mode at least, that sensor read out must be faster or equal to 1/120?


Apr 22, 2020 at 02:02 AM
Atlasman2
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p.32 #20 · EOS-R5....will it live up to the hype?


The likely scenario is line skipping and binning—throwing away data to reduce the 8K image down to 4K. I would be pleasantly surprised if down samples the 8K image to 4K.

LS_Ren wrote:
Just a theoretical question. So if the R5 is capable of 4K120, does that mean in that particular video mode at least, that sensor read out must be faster or equal to 1/120?




Apr 22, 2020 at 06:22 AM
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