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Archive 2020 · EOS-R5....will it live up to the hype?
  
 
Editorrr
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p.31 #1 · EOS-R5....will it live up to the hype?


I do not shoot video, but I am engaged in sports shooting. In connection with the release of R5, a question arose. Will individual frames of the film correspond to frames photo in quality?
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Apr 21, 2020 at 12:58 AM
JaimitoFrog
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p.31 #2 · EOS-R5....will it live up to the hype?


here is the first hands on video I have seen.

Note the IS has both IBIS and digital IS options. Eye detect focus includes human and animal, but there is a different menu to prioritize human vs animal.

has zebra fn for video.
Apr 21, 2020 at 04:52 AM
Sy Sez
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p.31 #3 · EOS-R5....will it live up to the hype?


By the icon in the menu, Digital IS, whatever that is, applies only to Video?

I've been watching a "number" of U-tube videos on the R5, since the recent announcement, and it sounds more, & more like the R5 is a Video Camera, that also shoots "stills"

Edited on Apr 21, 2020 at 08:01 AM · View previous versions
Apr 21, 2020 at 07:30 AM
arbitrage
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p.31 #4 · EOS-R5....will it live up to the hype?


Sy Sez wrote:
By the icon in the menu, Digital IS, whatever that is, applies only to Video?

That has always been the case. Canon has had digital IS for video for a good while now.
Apr 21, 2020 at 08:01 AM
lighthound
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p.31 #5 · EOS-R5....will it live up to the hype?


Sy Sez wrote:
it sounds more, & more like the R5 is a Video Camera, that also shoots "stills"

Sadly, that's the case with all our still camera options in today's world.
We all need to buck-up and help support all those YouTube kids out there with their shiny new video cameras. Without the financial support of all the "stills" shooters, they would all have to resort back to >gasp< a video camera.

It would be great if the R6 turned out to be an identical twin to the R5 but without all the video crap shoved in it and an MSRP of only $2399.

BTW, what's up with the R6 anyhow? Has anyone heard anything new about it recently?
Apr 21, 2020 at 08:59 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.31 #6 · EOS-R5....will it live up to the hype?


The last couple of Canon full frame camera bodies I have owned, along with the last couple on non-Canon bodies, have been competent video cameras, too. But I don't see how that has impaired their use as still photography cameras one bit.
Apr 21, 2020 at 09:07 AM
Atlasman2
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p.31 #7 · EOS-R5....will it live up to the hype?


gdanmitchell wrote:
The last couple of Canon full frame camera bodies I have owned, along with the last couple on non-Canon bodies, have been competent video cameras, too. But I don't see how that has impaired their use as still photography cameras one bit.

If anything, it has enabled higher performance in stills. Maybe it’s the hybrid shooter that is supporting the stills shooters! There’s seems to also be misconceptions that the video features are raising the overall cost of the camera. If video didn’t exist, camera prices would still be where they are today.


Apr 21, 2020 at 09:23 AM
EverLearning
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p.31 #8 · EOS-R5....will it live up to the hype?


Atlasman2, i am going to respectfully disagree with you on pricing. Two things drive price. First is the cost of R&D plus manufacturing. Perhaps this makes a big difference, small difference or almost no difference re the video aspect of this camera. It is the second driver that concerns me. Perceived value. All the features will increase perceived value and, just like different car models, you do pay for all the features that are there, whether you want them or not.

If, as you and some others seem to be suggesting, adding all the video candy doesn't affect manufacturing price, I would really like to see them come out with an R5c ('candy', , or R5v for video if one must) and an R5 (a stills camera with just the basic video capability).

I have absolutely no interest in video. I shot a few video clips of a wildebeast stampede in Tanzania and I think that is it over all the years. I want a high quality photography camera. I am a 7D II shooter (was about $2200CDN when it came out). If the R5 is $4500US, that's about $6400CDN. Add 12% tax and I am looking at almost $7200CDN! That just isn't going to happen; especially with what is going on. Even at $3000US that's about $4300CDN (exclusive of 12% taxes; $4800CDN with) compared to $2200 to $2500CDN I was expecting to pay for the (mythical) 7d Mark III. At $4800CDN, I might go for the R5, but I might also wait for more details on the camera dubbed the R7. And of course, if I am 'forced' to wait, it gives me time to see what Canon's competition announces and once again give thought to whether I need to switch (I certainly don't want to).

I don't think there has ever been a time with more price sensitivity in the market for digital cameras.
Apr 21, 2020 at 09:51 AM
Zenon Char
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p.31 #9 · EOS-R5....will it live up to the hype?


EverLearning wrote:
Atlasman2, i am going to respectfully disagree with you on pricing. Two things drive price. First is the cost of R&D plus manufacturing. Perhaps this makes a big difference, small difference or almost no difference re the video aspect of this camera. It is the second driver that concerns me. Perceived value. All the features will increase perceived value and, just like different car models, you do pay for all the features that are there, whether you want them or not.

If, as you and some others seem to be suggesting, adding all the video candy doesn't affect manufacturing price, I...Show more →

I know I won't spend that much. Also it had a lot of video enhancements that I don't want or will use.


Apr 21, 2020 at 10:08 AM
Sy Sez
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p.31 #10 · EOS-R5....will it live up to the hype?


"High-end" Video also drives up the cost of accessories, such more powerful batteries, Higher performance- higher capacity Memory Cards to support it.
Apr 21, 2020 at 10:29 AM
Zenon Char
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p.31 #11 · EOS-R5....will it live up to the hype?


We will see. I may have to wait for the R6. Rumours are a 20 megapixel sensor which would surprise me but I see a lot of happy 1DX shooters.


Apr 21, 2020 at 10:43 AM
Atlasman2
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p.31 #12 · EOS-R5....will it live up to the hype?


EverLearning wrote:
Atlasman2, i am going to respectfully disagree with you on pricing. Two things drive price. First is the cost of R&D plus manufacturing. Perhaps this makes a big difference, small difference or almost no difference re the video aspect of this camera. It is the second driver that concerns me. Perceived value. All the features will increase perceived value and, just like different car models, you do pay for all the features that are there, whether you want them or not.

If, as you and some others seem to be suggesting, adding all the video candy doesn't affect manufacturing price, I...Show more →

With all due respect, you are forgetting one huge driver: market size.

Let's say for the sake of simplicity that there are 50% stills and 50% hybrid shooters. Now let's take the 50% hybrid shooters out of the equation, market size would be half—how would Canon or any other camera maker be profitable with such a reduction in market?

As the market contracts, the price of camera equipment continues to climb. It's called the law of supply and demand.

As to manufacturing, if video didn't exist, you would still need the same robust body with all the buttons and seals—software development (at least from Canon and a few others) is coming from their high-end video cameras. What they are doing is called value added to the consumer products.

If it weren't for the burgeoning hybrid market, prices would be higher than they are now.
Apr 21, 2020 at 10:46 AM
Sy Sez
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p.31 #13 · EOS-R5....will it live up to the hype?


Atlasman2 wrote:
With all due respect, you are forgetting one huge driver: market size.

Let's say for the sake of simplicity that there are 50% stills and 50% hybrid shooters. Now let's take the 50% hybrid shooters out of the equation, market size would be half—how would Canon or any other camera maker be profitable with such a reduction in market?

As the market contracts, the price of camera equipment continues to climb. It's called the law of supply and demand.

As to manufacturing, if video didn't exist, you would still need the same robust body with all the buttons and seals—software development (at...Show more →

Simple; you produce two hybrid versions, both with the same "still" capability; one with "high-end" Video capability, the other with "basic" Video capability. Charge $2-K more for the "V" model than for the "S" model---Everybody's happy.


Apr 21, 2020 at 11:13 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.31 #14 · EOS-R5....will it live up to the hype?


EverLearning wrote:
Atlasman2, i am going to respectfully disagree with you on pricing. Two things drive price. First is the cost of R&D plus manufacturing. Perhaps this makes a big difference, small difference or almost no difference re the video aspect of this camera. It is the second driver that concerns me. Perceived value. All the features will increase perceived value and, just like different car models, you do pay for all the features that are there, whether you want them or not.

There are more than two significant factors. For example, the size of the market makes a big difference in how much of the R&D costs and manufacturing costs must be recovered per unit sold.

If the inclusion of video features expands the market to include those who use video and b) does not impair the non-video performance for those who do not... the effect can be to keep per unit pricing lower than it might have otherwise been.

As I read other replies since the one I have quoted above, I'm, uh, " impressed" by some of the the, uh, "novel" notions about market and pricing. ;-)
Apr 21, 2020 at 11:22 AM
amacal1
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p.31 #15 · EOS-R5....will it live up to the hype?


Sy Sez wrote:
Simple; you produce two hybrid versions, both with the same "still" capability; one with "high-end" Video capability, the other with "basic" Video capability. Charge $2-K more for the "V" model than for the "S" model---Everybody's happy.

Or use the Tesla model. Sell the same model camera with the same model number, but with an extra fee for them to remotely unlock the video features, per-user. Since they sell that extra license per-user, if you ever sell the camera secondhand, then that unlocked feature doesn't sell with it. So, whoever buys used has to pay that fee again for the unlocked video features.

Or they can use the video game and app microtransaction model. Sell the camera at rock-bottom prices, like $500 for the new R5. But, it only has bare-bones software features, like single-exposure mode only (no continuous shooting), single-shot af (no tracking), no bracketing, no video, just RAW files (no jpeg engine), no wifi control or sharing, etc. Basically, you get the hardware and it technically takes nice photos, but no advanced features. You pay a nominal fee for each advanced feature you like, or you bulk purchase in packages (i.e. video features, sports photog features, landscape features, etc.), and maybe a price for a full unlock. The downside is that the price will be sky-high if you want almost all the features, but more affordable for the landscape-only shooter who just wants the hardware and a handful of nifty features. It could also let them devote resources to more popular features because those would be instant money-makers (what landscape shooter wouldn't pay $40 for a built-in intervalometer if canon offered it tomorrow for the R), and it would encourage them to offer software features to older bodies or support popular bodies for longer since they may still rake in cash for really popular older bodies (how many 5Dsr shooters wouldn't also pay that same $40 for a software intervalometer if Canon offered a firmware update tomorrow).
Hell, they all have wifi, now, anyway. Canon could have LR or C1 ads popup in the electronic viewfinder unless you pay $5 to turn that off!
[Please know that I'm just playing the devil's advocate here. I really, really, really hope this model doesn't ever become the norm for camera hardware.]
Apr 21, 2020 at 11:31 AM
Ziffl3
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p.31 #16 · EOS-R5....will it live up to the hype?


lighthound wrote:
Sadly, that's the case with all our still camera options in today's world.
We all need to buck-up and help support all those YouTube kids out there with their shiny new video cameras. Without the financial support of all the "stills" shooters, they would all have to resort back to >gasp< a video camera.

It would be great if the R6 turned out to be an identical twin to the R5 but without all the video crap shoved in it and an MSRP of only $2399.

BTW, what's up with the R6 anyhow? Has anyone heard anything new about...Show more →

Are you sure it is just youtubers....?

there is an entire industry besides wedding/event shooting video.
many marketing groups are going video if you have not noticed.
You want to see a hotel.... video is being shot along side images.

All those "how to do" videos?

Seems to me... the video crap actual drives the still side.
Technically.... video is more challenging than stills ... except for sports - high frame rate which is like a ....movie.

so a painter can only use 1 brush? seems weird. can only paint in water color?

so just sit back and enjoy the ride.....

good stuff.
Apr 21, 2020 at 11:49 AM
Sy Sez
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p.31 #17 · EOS-R5....will it live up to the hype?


Canon offered the 5D-S/r alongside the 5D4, at a higher price for those willing to pay "extra" for a "specialized" camera offering significantly higher resolution to those willing to pay for it. Why not the same for a "specialized" camera offering advanced Video capability.

If the R5 sells at "close" to the price of Sony's A7R4, there won't be any valid complaints, but if it sells for "significantly" more, there may be an increase Sony + MC-11 sales.


Apr 21, 2020 at 12:13 PM
lighthound
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p.31 #18 · EOS-R5....will it live up to the hype?


Ziffl3 wrote:
Are you sure it is just youtubers....?

there is an entire industry besides wedding/event shooting video.
many marketing groups are going video if you have not noticed.
You want to see a hotel.... video is being shot along side images.

All those "how to do" videos?

Seems to me... the video crap actual drives the still side.
Technically.... video is more challenging than stills ... except for sports - high frame rate which is like a ....movie.

so a painter can only use 1 brush? seems weird. can only paint in water color?

so just sit back and enjoy the ride.....

good stuff.



A painter worth half his salt has many brushes to select from. Each serving a unique purpose to achieve the desired look of the finished piece. He/she also has a vast array of colors to choose from.

I guess some think it would be better if the artist tossed all his brushes away except for one then mix all his paint together so that it would "simplify" his life.

I own several DSLR cameras that take wonderful video (from what I'm told, never flicked the switch over) yet I just purchased a "video" camera for my wife to use on our up coming trip. Why? Because she doesn't want some huge complex thing to lug around just to capture some footage of our travels. Although many say a cell phone can take great stills & video, I have yet to see any that can do as well as a dedicated camera, video or stills.

Video drives the stills side? If video is so important to the vast majority, why aren't video cameras taking on more stills features?

And yes, Youtubers. They are the ones with the mouths (influencers) that cry whenever a stills camera doesn't have the video specs they want even though they have no intention on buying that particular product to begin with.
Case in point the Canon 90D was chastised for not doing 4k 24p when it was released. Remember all the crying and whining? Then Canon released a FW update and not another peep from those Youtubers that never intended on buying the product to begin with.
It was all just another excuse to make another "Canon Cripple Hammer" click bait Youtube video.

Lot's of talk in this thread about how video doesn't cost any extra. Yeah, ok.
How much did it cost Canon in lost sales because of the above mentioned bashing over no 24p? Do you think they're going to eat that cost or pass it on to the consumer on future product releases?

Yep, I'm already enjoying this ride immensely. It's nice to see Canon crippling the competition with that hammer.


Now where in the hell did I put my red stripped pom-poms damn it!



Apr 21, 2020 at 12:58 PM
EverLearning
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p.31 #19 · EOS-R5....will it live up to the hype?


gdanmitchell, i agree size of market influences price, but if your means of increasing 'market' is increasing price by adding all kinds of extras, the subsequent reduction in price due to enhanced market reach doesn't offset that increase. If it did, everything - cars, TVs, furnaces, cameras, computers, etc - would just come fully spec'ed out. Such is not the case.

Anyway, as I said, I would jump at an R5 with 'crippled' video (7D MII video ample) for a reduced price.
Apr 21, 2020 at 01:20 PM
arbitrage
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p.31 #20 · EOS-R5....will it live up to the hype?


Anyone wanting the R5 for video, especially 8K video, make sure you add a few of these to your budget:
Sandisk 512GB CFE

The smaller capacity cards can't even record the 5.5K of the 1DXIII. Only the largest capacity cards are fast enough...of course for 8K you will need all the space you can get anyways....

Maybe the 128GB and 256GB cards will be fast enough but they have slower write speeds than the 512 one. The 64GB card is a no go even with 5.5K so forget that.

The nice thing with CFExpress which has really never been the case for other memory cards is that the higher capacity cards do get cheaper when looking at $/GB. It used to be there was always a sweet spot...like 64GB or 128GB for the best $/MB but with CFExpress if you need space and trust the reliability then buying bigger cards is cheaper.
Apr 21, 2020 at 01:21 PM
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