rscheffler
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 p.99 #14 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread | |
rsolti13 wrote:
What the lower priced, Chinese/Japanese lenses do (knockoff or original), is create a lower entry point to the Leica ecosystem. When I first started shooting Leica I justified the price of the M8 with getting cheaper Voigtlander lenses with it. When I bought the M9 I still didn’t have any Leica lenses at the beginning. The cheaper entry point brought me to the ecosystem, which only helped Leica in the end. I still see plenty of people shooting M-240s/M10s/M11s, with nothing but third party lenses. I have no doubt the Light Lens Lab type companies are producing a net gain to Leica. This is before the thought of gaining potential Q and SL customers
I have no doubt Leica has thought about a 28 APO, if the optical design is close to what Voigtlander put out, will they be accused of copying Voigtlander when that releases? Better yet, what happens if LLL beats them out with a 28?
QC hasn’t been as good in recent years as the 90s/early 2000s, but still Leica is obviously considered better quality than especially the Chinese counterparts. I don’t see the competition as a bad thing in this case as like many others have said, some users are ok paying the premium for the better quality product, but the cheaper option still brings users to the ecosystem that would otherwise not be there...Show more →
Yes, Leica benefits somewhat with all these lower priced M mount alternatives because they all need to be used on a Leica camera (or Pixii  ). And some will get the itch and need to try actual Leica lenses to see what the fuss is about. So for Leica, the third parties are kind of an outsourced entry level line.
But what happens for Leica in the above ecosystem when LLL or someone else, probably out of China, decides to release an M9 replica? M240 replica? M10 replica? Or just a totally modern M mount camera, whether RF or EVF-centric, in addition to their own range of modern APO M lenses?
It kind of feels like it's just a matter of time. Some of the Chinese brands are already releasing AF lenses. When will one release an actual camera that undercuts the traditional competition on both price and performance? It wouldn't only affect Leica. Actually, it might affect Leica the least because of their luxury brand niche. Canikony, etc, OTOH...
Mystik wrote:
For a company like Leica that is positioned as a luxury brand, I'm not sure that they want this lower entry point to their system as it diminishes the exclusivity of the brand, eats into their margins on the volume that they do sell if they have to lower their prices, and puts them into closer competition with the likes of Sony/Nikon/Canon. They may not have a choice at some point regardless of if LLL exists or not.
But I don't run either Leica or LLL's business. I'm just a hobbyist trying to maximize the enjoyment of this hobby within a reasonable budget. I'm super on the fence on pre-ordering this in a few days, with the main question for me being what the long-term support is and if it happens to be a bust when delivered, how straight forward the return process is. I have the summilux FLE for when I want that fast aperture and honestly don't find it all that big compared to my old Sony gear, but the performance of the APO seems appealing....Show more →
Whatever LLL does, they're still not LEICA, though the new aesthetic design of their 35 APO, including font choice, sure does blur the boundaries.
At least for some potential customers, this is a significant factor for choosing Leica. For some, maximum enjoyment is ownership of an authentic Leica product. Whether it maximizes (technical) performance for the dollar is not as high as priority, if it even is one. So long as there are enough of these types of customers to sustain whatever level of sales Leica requires, Leica won't budge. And I suspect even if Leica's sales are affected, they may shift in the other direction. Lower volumes will result in higher unit pricing, making OG Leica even more exclusive.
For the rest of us who have to balance a certain price/performance ratio, it's LLL, Voigtlander, Thypoch, etc.
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