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Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread

  
 
highdesertmesa
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p.58 #1 · p.58 #1 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread


catacore wrote:
I'm on the same page with you on this, but did not want to offend the photographer.

I had this SPII lens and I know how difficult it was to focus (at f/2) on my A7c due to it be very "glowy" at f/2 and the poor EVF of the A7c. But the Zf is supposed to have focus confirmation, as I've heard, and probably its EVF is much better.


I had previously assumed they had trouble exporting photos or something. But now that I've seen their Elcan photos are sharp, maybe there could be something wrong with their copy of the SPII, and they're mistaking soft focus for glow. The SPII glow is a halo effect on brighter areas, but the image should still have very sharp details (nearly 50 f/2 Summicron sharp) when focused accurately. Not trying to be critical, either, but I want them to know that blurry is not glow, and they may need to have their lens serviced.



Jun 22, 2024 at 04:17 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.58 #2 · p.58 #2 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread


highdesertmesa wrote:
I had previously assumed they had trouble exporting photos or something. But now that I've seen their Elcan photos are sharp, maybe there could be something wrong with their copy of the SPII, and they're mistaking soft focus for glow. The SPII glow is a halo effect on brighter areas, but the image should still have very sharp details (nearly 50 f/2 Summicron sharp) when focused accurately. Not trying to be critical, either, but I want them to know that blurry is not glow, and they may need to have their lens serviced.


I agree. In fact, one of the characteristics I like about the 50/2 SPII compared to other classic lenses is that the contrast is low, but the resolution is still great even at f/2, and that's consistent across the field. I was quite surprised when I saw this, and it's the main reason I own this lens. I mainly focus using the rangefinder, so I don't have any issues nailing the perfect focus on the patch.

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1625479/32#16316316
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1625479/29#16310286



Jun 22, 2024 at 04:22 PM
Sonnar-7
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p.58 #3 · p.58 #3 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread


I might have been lenient with what I consider worth posting, I will test the Panchro more in those regards to see what I can get out of it and determine if my copy has an issue or if I need to improve my focusing.



Jun 22, 2024 at 04:57 PM
highdesertmesa
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p.58 #4 · p.58 #4 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread


Sonnar-7 wrote:
I might have been lenient with what I consider worth posting, I will test the Panchro more in those regards to see what I can get out of it and determine if my copy has an issue or if I need to improve my focusing.


Fred and I and others are focusing on M cameras using the rangefinder, which makes it so much easier to focus a low contrast lens like this when shot wide open. It can be hard to tell when the SPII is in focus at f/2 if using an EVF, especially one in the 3.XM dot resolution range or if not using the maximum zoom available from the camera. I miss focus a lot when using the rear LCD screen with this lens.



Jun 22, 2024 at 06:14 PM
Sonnar-7
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p.58 #5 · p.58 #5 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread


highdesertmesa wrote:
Fred and I and others are focusing on M cameras using the rangefinder, which makes it so much easier to focus a low contrast lens like this when shot wide open. It can be hard to tell when the SPII is in focus at f/2 if using an EVF, especially one in the 3.XM dot resolution range or if not using the maximum zoom available from the camera. I miss focus a lot when using the rear LCD screen with this lens.


I need to test a few scenarios, on my M9 I was often over f2, it might have given more acceptable results, I am curious to compare evf vs rangefinder at f2.
With the Zf, I tend to use less and less the focus confirmation given by the 6bit adapter, even with my leniency toward sharpness I noticed that I was way off with only the green confirmation, it is at most an help to focus faster but I was magnifying more and more on top of that.
I think I have a good enough criteria that almost works with some photos when on my displays with full resolution but the compression on glow when posted does not forgive and shows that well, it was not so good enough.
The Panchro does glow a lot, a lot, I will try some steps and if there is no issue with the lens, learn to see through the glow and start anew.



Jun 22, 2024 at 06:39 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.58 #6 · p.58 #6 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread


And I’d like to add that rangefinder accuracy is paramount with lenses like this. Both the lens and the camera must have optimal RF calibration.

highdesertmesa wrote:
Fred and I and others are focusing on M cameras using the rangefinder, which makes it so much easier to focus a low contrast lens like this when shot wide open. It can be hard to tell when the SPII is in focus at f/2 if using an EVF, especially one in the 3.XM dot resolution range or if not using the maximum zoom available from the camera. I miss focus a lot when using the rear LCD screen with this lens.




Jun 22, 2024 at 07:38 PM
highdesertmesa
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p.58 #7 · p.58 #7 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread




Sonnar-7 wrote:
I need to test a few scenarios, on my M9 I was often over f2, it might have given more acceptable results, I am curious to compare evf vs rangefinder at f2.
With the Zf, I tend to use less and less the focus confirmation given by the 6bit adapter, even with my leniency toward sharpness I noticed that I was way off with only the green confirmation, it is at most an help to focus faster but I was magnifying more and more on top of that.
I think I have a good enough criteria that almost works with some photos
...Show more

A good technique on EVF cameras like the Zf is to dedicate a function button to magnify to the max amount of zoom available. Then when out shooting, use the magnify button, focus, then depress the shutter to take the photo without zooming out again. It’s often assumed you need to zoom back out to check your framing, but you don’t. As long as you moved the focus point to where you wanted it in the frame before zooming in, your composition will stay locked to the same framing. And don’t trust peaking or the green dot. The green dot is only good with lenses with built-in electronic contacts like the Voigtlander Z lenses. Just focus until it looks sharp. It will help sometimes to increase the JPEG sharpening amount in-camera. This can make it easier to see when the subject is at peak focus, especially with low contrast lenses like the SPII.

And make sure you’re not doing the old school focus in the center then recompose to take the shot. That’s nearly assured you’re going to miss focus slightly, which is a big deal at f/2 or wider.



Jun 22, 2024 at 07:55 PM
LightLensLab
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p.58 #8 · p.58 #8 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread


_jim_ wrote:
Hey David, I assume you’re teasing the 28/2.8 here?

Any updates on the 35aa?


Update will be coming soon. There are reasons it has not been spoken of on my end...


Edited on Jun 24, 2024 at 07:05 PM · View previous versions



Jun 24, 2024 at 07:02 PM
LightLensLab
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p.58 #9 · p.58 #9 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread


https://lightlenslab.co/blogs/upcoming-project/light-lens-lab-50mm-f-2-elcan-in-titanium

ELCAN in Titanium Alloy Grey Limited!



Jun 24, 2024 at 07:02 PM
Sonnar-7
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p.58 #10 · p.58 #10 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread


LLL Speed Panchro II & Nikon Zf






































Jun 25, 2024 at 03:53 PM
 


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highdesertmesa
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p.58 #11 · p.58 #11 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread


Sonnar-7 wrote:
LLL Speed Panchro II & Nikon Zf


These look sharp! Huge difference versus before.



Jun 25, 2024 at 04:37 PM
Sonnar-7
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p.58 #12 · p.58 #12 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread


highdesertmesa wrote:
These look sharp! Huge difference versus before.


Thanks! And thanks for the advices. I tried to get some better results by taking into account what was said in the previous posts. It is indeed not an easy lens to nail focus wide open.
My copy at least seems alright I think, I couldn’t get sharper for now with my Panchro.



Jun 25, 2024 at 04:47 PM
highdesertmesa
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p.58 #13 · p.58 #13 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread


Some shots from yesterday at Ghost Ranch near Abiquiu, NM.

SPII 50 / M11M / no color filter





Chimney Rock area that O'Keeffe painted several times







Gerald's Tree that she also painted & another view of Chimney Rock




Jun 29, 2024 at 12:34 PM
el.mediocre
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p.58 #14 · p.58 #14 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread


I’ve been interested in the 35mm 8-element in the past, but now see that they’ve now up in the 1200 dollar range and that is not that far off from a used Summicron. Do folks here feel like their 8Es are worth the current going rate for them?


Jul 02, 2024 at 05:43 AM
rscheffler
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p.58 #15 · p.58 #15 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread


el.mediocre wrote:
I’ve been interested in the 35mm 8-element in the past, but now see that they’ve now up in the 1200 dollar range and that is not that far off from a used Summicron. Do folks here feel like their 8Es are worth the current going rate for them?


Is $1200 close to the price of a used 8E, or just a random old Cron?

This lens isn't a general Cron alternative, rather an 8E clone for those who want one without paying the collectors' premium. However, having never used a 'real' 8E, or any of the other 35 Crons, I can't say how faithful the LLL is to the original or how unique it is compared to the later models.

For me at least, when the pre-order was available through RFF back in ~2019 for $500, I thought it was worth the risk to scratch the 8E itch I had for a long time, without having to spend the money on an authentic one (which seem to constantly be appreciating in value).

Based on my experience with the LLL 8E, I wouldn't buy it at retail over $1,000. If vintage optical performance was the primary criteria, I'd just get a Canon 35/2 LTM (which I also have) or maybe the VM 35/1.4 SC. But the LLL is nicely made and will closely mimic Leica's ergonomics of the period, which is superior to the Canon LTM.



Jul 02, 2024 at 10:16 AM
el.mediocre
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p.58 #16 · p.58 #16 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread


rscheffler wrote:
Is $1200 close to the price of a used 8E, or just a random old Cron?

This lens isn't a general Cron alternative, rather an 8E clone for those who want one without paying the collectors' premium. However, having never used a 'real' 8E, or any of the other 35 Crons, I can't say how faithful the LLL is to the original or how unique it is compared to the later models.

For me at least, when the pre-order was available through RFF back in ~2019 for $500, I thought it was worth the risk to scratch the 8E itch I
...Show more

I'll clarify - the retail price for a LLL 8E at PopFlash is $1048 for a silver model, or $1148 for the black model. Those prices don't seem too far off from older 35mm Summicrons, which I've seen as low as $1400 on some occasions... though now that I think about it further, their conditions are probably questionable.

The samples that have been shared in this thread have been pretty compelling, and if the 8e was priced at the same point as the Elcan, I'd probably just run with it. Since it isn't, I'll take a look at the other possibilities that you suggested.



Jul 02, 2024 at 04:44 PM
highdesertmesa
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p.58 #17 · p.58 #17 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread


el.mediocre wrote:
I'll clarify - the retail price for a LLL 8E at PopFlash is $1048 for a silver model, or $1148 for the black model. Those prices don't seem too far off from older 35mm Summicrons, which I've seen as low as $1400 on some occasions... though now that I think about it further, their conditions are probably questionable.

The samples that have been shared in this thread have been pretty compelling, and if the 8e was priced at the same point as the Elcan, I'd probably just run with it. Since it isn't, I'll take a look at the other possibilities
...Show more

You’re still not differentiating between the cost of an original Leica “8-element” 35 Cron (v1) and other versions, many of which are not at all sought after in the same way. The Leica original sells anywhere from 2x to 5x the price of the LLL replica, which has been tested and shown to be nearly identical in rendering to the Leica.



Jul 02, 2024 at 05:46 PM
el.mediocre
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p.58 #18 · p.58 #18 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread


highdesertmesa wrote:
You’re still not differentiating between the cost of an original Leica “8-element” 35 Cron (v1) and other versions, many of which are not at all sought after in the same way. The Leica original sells anywhere from 2x to 5x the price of the LLL replica, which has been tested and shown to be nearly identical in rendering to the Leica.


Okay. I thought it was clear enough that I was referring to the 11309 v2/v3 versions of the 35mm Summicron by the implied price point. I am aware that these are not the same lenses as the original Leica 8-element (v1) or the LLL 35mm that is modeled after it - but I'll concede that my previous posts on the subject could have articulated that understanding in a better fashion.

My apologies for the confusion.

This is not a "original 35mm Summicron v1 versus the LLL 8e" question for me. Playing around in the collector's market for a v1 Summicron was never an option because I don't have that kind of money. Instead, this is a far more simple "I'm looking for a 35mm character lens in M-mount" situation. Seems to me that the v2/v3 Summicrons would fall into this category like the LLL 8e (and v1 Summicron) both do, each with their own strengths and weaknesses.

But what I'm reading into these responses is that I shouldn't bother with the LLL 8e because the price only makes sense if I specifically wanted a v1 Summicron at some time in the past. Does that seem accurate? Is there no other reason to consider getting one?



Jul 03, 2024 at 08:40 PM
Oldwino
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p.58 #19 · p.58 #19 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread


el.mediocre wrote:
Okay. I thought it was clear enough that I was referring to the 11309 v2/v3 versions of the 35mm Summicron by the implied price point. I am aware that these are not the same lenses as the original Leica 8-element (v1) or the LLL 35mm that is modeled after it - but I'll concede that my previous posts on the subject could have articulated that understanding in a better fashion.

My apologies for the confusion.

This is not a "original 35mm Summicron v1 versus the LLL 8e" question for me. Playing around in the collector's market for a v1 Summicron
...Show more


The LLL 35 is an excellent lens. That's the fact of the matter. Whether you care that the design is a copy of a rare and sought-after early Leica 35mm lens is up to you. V2 & V3 summicron lenses are also considered to be very good, but they are old now and many require service, and that may be important to you also.

I've owned the LLL 35 and a V3 summicron. I found the LLL had more obvious character to it. It is, as I said, an excellent lens, especially considering what it costs.



Jul 03, 2024 at 09:08 PM
rscheffler
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p.58 #20 · p.58 #20 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread


el.mediocre wrote:
But what I'm reading into these responses is that I shouldn't bother with the LLL 8e because the price only makes sense if I specifically wanted a v1 Summicron at some time in the past. Does that seem accurate? Is there no other reason to consider getting one?


Well, the LLL is still cheaper than any Leica Cron options on the used market while having the vintage Cron wide open look. I just don't feel it has that much more unique character than other options. Beyond wide open, there are better modern 35mm lenses in M mount from Voigtlander for less money. Because stopped down, the LLL looks like pretty much any other 35mm, though at least with my copy there is wavy field curvature and focus shift to contend with, which means it's not actually as easy to use as a more behaved modern lens. However, it is good at more than just wide open character and can be a nice, compact, daily driver kind of lens. I mentioned the Canon 35/2 LTM because it has similar wonky flare behavior, busy-ish wide open bokeh and IMO pleasing wide open off-axis sharpness falloff. But like the LLL, stopped down a couple stops, it looks pretty normal. However, the LLL seems to have a bit better color quality (saturation/richness). While I haven't used the VM 35/1.4, I have its sibling, the 40/1.4. It's certainly also a wide open character lens with energetic bokeh and SA glow.



Edited on Jul 03, 2024 at 11:45 PM · View previous versions



Jul 03, 2024 at 11:23 PM
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