Desmolicious wrote:
LLL is going beastmode introducing lenses.
Wish they would have started with a 28 1.4 (le sigh), but hey, if we can get a 28 f/2 with a unique and attractive signature, I'm all for it. All the current 28 f/2 lenses seem to have really good IQ but not what I would call great character.
I sadly sold mine which was 6 bit coded by Leica. Was losing any eyesight back then and doctors feared I would go blind. It never happened so I am back into photography.
So I have a question -- I recently purchased 2 brand new LLL lenses, a 35mm 8E M mount and an Elcan LTM/M.
I have had a decent collection of lenses come across my desk thus far, all shot using my M-P 240:
1 - Voigtlander 50mm Nokton f/1.5II Asph
2 - Voigtlander 28mm Ultron f/2
3 - Voigtlander 40mm Nokton 1.4
4 - Voigtlander 35mm Nokton 1.4
5 - Voigtlander 50mm 1.2
6 - TTArtisan 50mm f/.95
7 - TTArtisan 21mm
Every one of those lenses, even the TTArtisans, have been perfectly calibrated to the RF patch on my camera. I've validated using a tripod and a VF-2 using focus peaking, all wide open.
Enter the two LLL lenses I just purchased. When mounted to a tripod, the VF/Focus peaking calibration is WAAY out of sync. If I focus peak the 35mm to an object (a shingled roof) approximately 25ft away, the distance indicator shows 25ft exactly. However, if I focus that spot using the RF patch, the distance indicator points to the midpoint between 25ft and infinity, which at f2 means nothing is even close to sharp.
Same behavior out of the Elcan, but to a lesser degree. The distance indicator when focus peaked is pointed at the 5 in 25, but when focused using the RF patch, the distance indicator shows approximately 28ft. Again, enough to make any photo blurry and unacceptable.
I got the Elcan on Wednesday, and the 8E about 2 weeks ago, both purchased from PopFlash. I've been too busy, and the weather too crappy for me to do this sort of analysis on the 8E until today.
My question is, what are my options? I love the character of both lenses when they're focused. I especially love their size relative to anything else out there. I don't want to dump them, but I also want lenses that I can use without an EVF.
Appreciate any suggestions or input!
*update* Tried focusing on something closer, approximately 7ft away, and the RF and EVF agree with focus at that distance on both lenses. So focus sync between close/mid distance and near infinity are where the wheels fall off the bus.
At infinity lock, the Elcan is going beyond infinity. I have to pull focus back a degree or two to get peaking blooms in my EVF
The 8E, at infinity lock, appears to be calibrated correctly as far as the EVF is concerned.
psyclism wrote:
So I have a question -- I recently purchased 2 brand new LLL lenses, a 35mm 8E M mount and an Elcan LTM/M.
I have had a decent collection of lenses come across my desk thus far, all shot using my M-P 240:
1 - Voigtlander 50mm Nokton f/1.5II Asph
2 - Voigtlander 28mm Ultron f/2
3 - Voigtlander 40mm Nokton 1.4
4 - Voigtlander 35mm Nokton 1.4
5 - Voigtlander 50mm 1.2
6 - TTArtisan 50mm f/.95
7 - TTArtisan 21mm
Every one of those lenses, even the TTArtisans, have been perfectly calibrated to the RF patch on my camera. I've validated using a tripod and a VF-2 using focus peaking, all wide open.
Enter the two LLL lenses I just purchased. When mounted to a tripod, the VF/Focus peaking calibration is WAAY out of sync. If I focus peak the 35mm to an object (a shingled roof) approximately 25ft away, the distance indicator shows 25ft exactly. However, if I focus that spot using the RF patch, the distance indicator points to the midpoint between 25ft and infinity, which at f2 means nothing is even close to sharp.
Same behavior out of the Elcan, but to a lesser degree. The distance indicator when focus peaked is pointed at the 5 in 25, but when focused using the RF patch, the distance indicator shows approximately 28ft. Again, enough to make any photo blurry and unacceptable.
I got the Elcan on Wednesday, and the 8E about 2 weeks ago, both purchased from PopFlash. I've been too busy, and the weather too crappy for me to do this sort of analysis on the 8E until today.
My question is, what are my options? I love the character of both lenses when they're focused. I especially love their size relative to anything else out there. I don't want to dump them, but I also want lenses that I can use without an EVF.
Appreciate any suggestions or input!
*update* Tried focusing on something closer, approximately 7ft away, and the RF and EVF agree with focus at that distance on both lenses. So focus sync between close/mid distance and near infinity are where the wheels fall off the bus.
At infinity lock, the Elcan is going beyond infinity. I have to pull focus back a degree or two to get peaking blooms in my EVF
The 8E, at infinity lock, appears to be calibrated correctly as far as the EVF is concerned....Show more →
Ok so the issue is that the RF cam on the lens is out of wack. I assume it is a rotating cam? If not then it's a helicoid issue and you cannot fix it.
If the cam rotates then then the following describes the issue and a potential solution.
It is accurate at close/mid but should be closer to the camera at further distances (indicating that it is closer to infinity sooner). The issue with this is that you cannot easily build up the cam. You can TRY (I am not endorsing this) adding THIN layers of nail polish, tapering them down with very fine grit sandpaper at the edges when it starts to lose accuracy. This is a tedious and time-consuming process, you need to ensure that the nail polish is 100% dry (give it an hour or two) between coats and sanding.
If you're only going to use the lens at closer distance when focusing using the rangefinder then don't attempt the above and just live with the inaccurate RF at longer distances.
psyclism wrote:
So I have a question -- I recently purchased 2 brand new LLL lenses, a 35mm 8E M mount and an Elcan LTM/M.
I have had a decent collection of lenses come across my desk thus far, all shot using my M-P 240:
1 - Voigtlander 50mm Nokton f/1.5II Asph
2 - Voigtlander 28mm Ultron f/2
3 - Voigtlander 40mm Nokton 1.4
4 - Voigtlander 35mm Nokton 1.4
5 - Voigtlander 50mm 1.2
6 - TTArtisan 50mm f/.95
7 - TTArtisan 21mm
Every one of those lenses, even the TTArtisans, have been perfectly calibrated to the RF patch on my camera. I've validated using a tripod and a VF-2 using focus peaking, all wide open.
Enter the two LLL lenses I just purchased. When mounted to a tripod, the VF/Focus peaking calibration is WAAY out of sync. If I focus peak the 35mm to an object (a shingled roof) approximately 25ft away, the distance indicator shows 25ft exactly. However, if I focus that spot using the RF patch, the distance indicator points to the midpoint between 25ft and infinity, which at f2 means nothing is even close to sharp.
Same behavior out of the Elcan, but to a lesser degree. The distance indicator when focus peaked is pointed at the 5 in 25, but when focused using the RF patch, the distance indicator shows approximately 28ft. Again, enough to make any photo blurry and unacceptable.
I got the Elcan on Wednesday, and the 8E about 2 weeks ago, both purchased from PopFlash. I've been too busy, and the weather too crappy for me to do this sort of analysis on the 8E until today.
My question is, what are my options? I love the character of both lenses when they're focused. I especially love their size relative to anything else out there. I don't want to dump them, but I also want lenses that I can use without an EVF.
Appreciate any suggestions or input!
*update* Tried focusing on something closer, approximately 7ft away, and the RF and EVF agree with focus at that distance on both lenses. So focus sync between close/mid distance and near infinity are where the wheels fall off the bus.
At infinity lock, the Elcan is going beyond infinity. I have to pull focus back a degree or two to get peaking blooms in my EVF
The 8E, at infinity lock, appears to be calibrated correctly as far as the EVF is concerned....Show more →
Exchange them, but I would swap the LTM version for an M version. The LTMs may never work well with the rangefinder of an M – too many variables with LTM mount of the lens + LTM-to-M adapter thickness working with or against each other.
thrice wrote:
Ok so the issue is that the RF cam on the lens is out of wack. I assume it is a rotating cam? If not then it's a helicoid issue and you cannot fix it.
If the cam rotates then then the following describes the issue and a potential solution.
It is accurate at close/mid but should be closer to the camera at further distances (indicating that it is closer to infinity sooner). The issue with this is that you cannot easily build up the cam. You can TRY (I am not endorsing this) adding THIN layers of nail polish, tapering them down with very fine grit sandpaper at the edges when it starts to lose accuracy. This is a tedious and time-consuming process, you need to ensure that the nail polish is 100% dry (give it an hour or two) between coats and sanding.
If you're only going to use the lens at closer distance when focusing using the rangefinder then don't attempt the above and just live with the inaccurate RF at longer distances....Show more →
Did some investigating -- looking at the 35 8E, it appears that some machining was done to the cam, removing additional material at some point during assembly. You can see a shiny area with a defined angular line, the beginning of which correlates with the 8' mark on the distance scale (about where the "wheels fall off of the bus", so to speak). I'm guessing this is some very poorly executed tuning done to the mechanism of the lens during assembly.
The image above looks like there is a piece of aluminum was chipped off.
I would agree with @highdesertmesa that you should just exchange or return these two lenses. I have the LLL 35 8E (V6LC), Elcan 50 and SP-II and all of them are within specs for focus accuracy.The workmanship of all my copies of LLL lenses were pretty decent without any defects.
LLL SPII at infinity showing f/2 versus stopped down by half a stop. When stopped down half a stop, sharpness greatly increases, some of the glow goes away, but all of the halation remains on specular highlights.
psyclism wrote:
Did some investigating -- looking at the 35 8E, it appears that some machining was done to the cam, removing additional material at some point during assembly. You can see a shiny area with a defined angular line, the beginning of which correlates with the 8' mark on the distance scale (about where the "wheels fall off of the bus", so to speak). I'm guessing this is some very poorly executed tuning done to the mechanism of the lens during assembly.
Did you purchase it secondhand? Maybe the previous owner adjusted the rangefinder alignment for various distances. Also, it seems the mount lever wasn't aligning with the right framelines, so they might have shaved it to fix the issue.
psyclism wrote:
Did some investigating -- looking at the 35 8E, it appears that some machining was done to the cam, removing additional material at some point during assembly. You can see a shiny area with a defined angular line, the beginning of which correlates with the 8' mark on the distance scale (about where the "wheels fall off of the bus", so to speak). I'm guessing this is some very poorly executed tuning done to the mechanism of the lens during assembly.
I would never have accepted that lens. And it was sold as 'new'?
Someone messed with it.
Desmolicious wrote:
I would never have accepted that lens. And it was sold as 'new'?
Someone messed with it.
My personal copy of the MS Optics 73/1.5 Sonnetar had a very rough cylinder helicoid adjustment and it came straight from the factory like this. https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1819967
Fred Miranda wrote:
My personal copy of the MS Optics 73/1.5 Sonnetar had a very rough cylinder helicoid adjustment and it came straight from the factory like this. https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1819967
Yah, but, MS Optics....
people, this is why the only lenses you should buy are the ones I am selling.
Fred Miranda wrote:
Did you purchase it secondhand? Maybe the previous owner adjusted the rangefinder alignment for various distances. Also, it seems the mount lever wasn't aligning with the right framelines, so they might have shaved it to fix the issue.
Both lenses were purchased brand new from Popflash within the last few weeks
LLL would likely make a brass version which would be even heavier!
