algrove wrote:
But that is a B&W sensor. Wouldn't you need the M11 to see a blue haze?
If anything, the haze should be more prominent since no blue light is lost to the color filter array. The blue tint is fairly faint – it's basically just a circular area of reduced contrast and appears as a bright spot. I might be able to completely bypass the issue on the M11M by using an orange or red filter, which will block out blue light.
Based on my limited experience, I believe the 'blue cast' is likely caused by residual flare. The SPII's ghosting flare tends to show a color bias more towards magenta/blue rather than orange/red, which could be what we observe. This effect becomes more noticeable when using smaller apertures. I'm uncertain if the original lens exhibits a similar flare color. Also, like many vintage lenses, this lens is highly susceptible to veiling flare when shooting against the light. This could be used creatively and I don't think it's a defect, just part of the lens character. The hood is big and heavy but perhaps a must if one wants to minimize the flare effect.
Fred Miranda wrote:
Based on my limited experience, I believe the 'blue cast' is likely caused by residual flare. The SPII's ghosting flare tends to show a color bias more towards magenta/blue rather than orange/red, which could be what we observe. This effect becomes more noticeable when using smaller apertures. I'm uncertain if the original lens exhibits a similar flare color. Also, like many vintage lenses, this lens is highly susceptible to veiling flare when shooting against the light. This could be used creatively and I don't think it's a defect, just part of the lens character. The hood is big and heavy but perhaps a must if one wants to minimize the flare effect....Show more →
I did notice that the hood helped reduce the effect. In fact, at f/22 with the center spot visible, I could make it go away by shielding the lens with my hand cupped around the edge of the frame where the light was entering – but only when my hand came into the edge of the frame.
highdesertmesa wrote:
GIF animation with f/2 and f/22 alternating:
Indeed, it's noticeable at f/22 but who uses this aperture!!
If I were to acquire this lens, my primary usage would involve shooting wide open or possibly stopping down just a bit. As a result, I don't expect to encounter this ghosting flare in my images. Nevertheless, I find the bluish ghosting flare quite appealing. When shooting with smaller apertures, the aperture blades become distinctly visible in the flare.
I can't help but wonder if the original Panchro lens exhibits the same characteristic blue flare often seen in movies.
Fred Miranda wrote:
Indeed, it's noticeable at f/22 but who uses this aperture!!
If I were to acquire this lens, my primary usage would involve shooting wide open or possibly stopping down just a bit. As a result, I don't expect to encounter this ghosting flare in my images. Nevertheless, I find the bluish ghosting flare quite appealing. When shooting with smaller apertures, the aperture blades become distinctly visible in the flare.
I can't help but wonder if the original Panchro lens exhibits the same characteristic blue flare often seen in movies.
Oh heck, I won't be shooting it at f/22 either, but I will be shooting it for landscape where I will need to limit myself to f/5.6. That's something I often do anyway, so not that big of a deal. But if I were shooting film, sometimes I'd be forced to shoot at f/11 just to get the right exposure due to the film M shutter speed limit of 1/1000 sec. I've even had to shoot f/22 with a red filter just to be able to use TMAX 3200 in daylight.
I think LLL is saying they faithfully copied an original SPII. Not sure if they had only one copy from which to copy or what
Pretty sure it was the change of coatings between the prototype and production version that is causing the flare. This change was to make it render more like the original SPII – I guess the central area of flare at smaller f-stops is a side effect of that.
More Panchro, in the first shot and to a lesser extent the second shot, you can see the blue cast of the flare, I like it, having some blue teint in the shadows is not something I would call optically perfect(I have beef with that notion and would challenge its existence), but somewhat painterly accurate. I will throw the word cinematic because I feel daring today.
Sonnar-7 wrote:
More Panchro, in the first shot and to a lesser extent the second shot, you can see the blue cast of the flare, I like it, having some blue teint in the shadows is not something I would call optically perfect(I have beef with that notion and would challenge its existence), but somewhat painterly accurate. I will throw the word cinematic because I feel daring today.
That's where I notice it on mine, too, shooting in the shadows. One of those things you don't really see unless you know to look for it. Since it lowers contrast in the entire center of the image a bit in the shadows at middle apertures, the effect is it lightens the center of the frame. I think it can be used artistically to give a subtle highlight to a central subject – the thing all the kids do with "filters" these days I will probably keep mine and just avoid shooting over f/8 (since it becomes more of a "spot" the closer I get to f/22), which I probably would have anyway. Just need to test it with the rangefinder of the M camera that arrives to me today to make sure it's well calibrated.
I acquired the LLL SP ii a few weeks ago and have only used it a few times. I’ve gotten some interesting images so far. EXIF F Stops are wrong. I think the camera is just estimating it. These were shot between f/2 and f/4.
LEICA SL2-SUnknown Lens lens50mmf/2.81/8000s200 ISO-0.6 EV
LEICA SL2-SUnknown Lens lens50mmf/5.61/320s800 ISO-0.6 EV
LEICA SL2-SUnknown Lens lens50mmf/0.91/800s125 ISO-0.6 EV
LEICA SL2-SUnknown Lens lens50mmf/5.61/800s100 ISO-0.6 EV
LEICA SL2-SUnknown Lens lens50mmf/5.61/800s100 ISO-0.6 EV
highdesertmesa wrote:
That's where I notice it on mine, too, shooting in the shadows. One of those things you don't really see unless you know to look for it. Since it lowers contrast in the entire center of the image a bit in the shadows at middle apertures, the effect is it lightens the center of the frame. I think it can be used artistically to give a subtle highlight to a central subject – the thing all the kids do with "filters" these days I will probably keep mine and just avoid shooting over f/8 (since it becomes more of a "spot" the closer I get to f/22), which I probably would have anyway. Just need to test it with the rangefinder of the M camera that arrives to me today to make sure it's well calibrated....Show more →
Yeah, when you know how to look for it, you find it quite easily, it’s also when you know how it behaves that you can use it. It’s quite trendy indeed but I believe there is more to it, after all it’s like having a lens that naturally produce a grading effect on your photo, I would use again the word cinematic or filmic for a less dangerous ground.
It might even be interesting in landscape if the loss of details for a mood is acceptable.
That lens can spark some interesting discussion about photography, that’s no small feat.
Looking forward to more of your testing, glad you didn’t send it back for I’ll get more samples and analysis
The SPII is a beautifully made lens...but it is not for me. It has a unique image quality, but it is also big (and I am not sure that the image quality excites me the way other 50mm lenses do). For what it's worth, I like the LLL 'Elcan' more (smaller, slightly less ugly bokeh at full aperture, smaller, did I mention smaller?).
Selfie by Jim Fischer, on Flickr
(Zeiss Ikon ZM, Light Lens Lab 50mm f/2 'Elcan' at f/2, Eastman-5222, Xtol 1:1)
Unknown Young Woman by Jim Fischer, on Flickr
(Zeiss Ikon ZM, Light Lens Lab 50mm f/2 'Elcan' at f/5.6, Eastman-5222, Xtol 1:1)
Jenny by Jim Fischer, on Flickr
(Zeiss Ikon ZM, Light Lens Lab 50mm f/2 'Elcan' at f/2.8, Eastman-5222, Xtol 1:1)
Sunnyside Vineyard by Jim Fischer, on Flickr
(Zeiss Ikon ZM, Light Lens Lab 50mm f/2 'Elcan' at f/5.6, Eastman-5222, Xtol 1:1)
Basketball Hoop by Jim Fischer, on Flickr
(Zeiss Ikon ZM, Light Lens Lab 50mm f/2 'Elcan' at f/2, Eastman-5222, Xtol 1:1)
_jim_ wrote:
The SPII is a beautifully made lens...but it is not for me. It has a unique image quality, but it is also big (and I am not sure that the image quality excites me the way other 50mm lenses do). For what it's worth, I like the LLL 'Elcan' more (smaller, slightly less ugly bokeh at full aperture, smaller, did I mention smaller?)
It's undeniable that the LLL 50/2 SPII exhibits a considerable size and weight for a 50/2 lens. It's almost as heavy as my Leica 50/1.4 Lux Black Chrome (brass), weighing 378 grams compared to 350 grams. They are also very similar in size, with the SPII actually being longer by 2 or 3mm. Nevertheless, I like its unique character and will need to compare it to the Voigt 50/1.5 Heliar and Leica 50/2 Rigid lenses before deciding whether to keep it.
The SPII lens has a similar glow to the Heliar, but it might be sharper. The Rigid could be slighly sharper and is better corrected for SA with much less glow. All three have a classic draw with noticeable highlight outlining in the rendering.
I haven't gone through the whole thread, but has anyone removed the UV filter that comes on the SP ii? If so, did it make any difference in image sharpness/contrast/color?
Also, if someone did take it off, how did you do it?
saxguy wrote:
I haven't gone through the whole thread, but has anyone removed the UV filter that comes on the SP ii? If so, did it make any difference in image sharpness/contrast/color?
Also, if someone did take it off, how did you do it?
Just go back one or two pages. Easy to do, just need a lens spanner wrench.
_jim_ wrote:
The SPII is a beautifully made lens...but it is not for me. It has a unique image quality, but it is also big (and I am not sure that the image quality excites me the way other 50mm lenses do). For what it's worth, I like the LLL 'Elcan' more (smaller, slightly less ugly bokeh at full aperture, smaller, did I mention smaller?).
Looks great. Spend some more time with it before not keeping it. I think this rendering looks nicer than the Elcan shots — bokeh is still retro (plus glow!) but rendering is calmer and less agitated. Also the SPII is sharp at f/2 away from the center, but the Elcan gets soft quickly off axis. But yeah the size of the Elcan is a huge win.
but I believe there is more to it, after all it’s like having a lens that naturally produce a grading effect on your photo, I would use again the word cinematic or filmic for a less dangerous ground.
