algrove wrote:
OK, but I would never shoot at f22. I bought it for f4 maximum use and when I can hit focus f2 preferable.
Me neither, but you wanted to see the blue haze, so f/22 should show you. Each progressive stop wider makes the spot spread wider and get a bit more transparent.
algrove wrote:
So far no blue haze when using on my M11 nor SL2S. Could be there but I don't see it. Could an M9 be part of the issue?
I tested it with the Z6 so that I could observe the behavior of the flare/internal reflection with the live view.
The good news is that I made a few sessions with the Panchro without bringing back any shot with that issue in a real shooting situation, it is likely that the conditions to trigger that effect are not those of a good photo with any lens anyway. With Live view that I sadly do not have on the M9, the internal reflection can be turned into a nice blue flare with a slight change of position.
The Panchro surely have some shortcomings but it can produce some lovely things too. Still need some gauging and testing.
I wish it could produce some colored arcs as part of the flare, I don’t know if there is a name for that part of the effect. My photography vocabulary is lacking.
highdesertmesa wrote:
Me neither, but you wanted to see the blue haze, so f/22 should show you. Each progressive stop wider makes the spot spread wider and get a bit more transparent.
I did not intend to infer I wanted to see the blue haze. On the contrary I do not want to see it. For me I consider this LLL lens a gift from the past for under $1k where optics from the 1940's had limitations and you have found this lens's limitations.
algrove wrote:
I did not intend to infer I wanted to see the blue haze. On the contrary I do not want to see it. For me I consider this LLL lens a gift from the past for under $1k where optics from the 1940's had limitations and you have found this lens's limitations.
You said you couldn't see it on your copy, implying maybe your copy didn't have the issue. I'm just telling you how to make the issue visible if you want to confirm you copy has the issue. If it doesn't, that would be of interest to the rest of us, too. For example, if your copy doesn't show the issue, it could be the BSI sensors in your M11 and SL2-S are making a difference in performance with regard to the flare. Or maybe you have the silver version of the lens and the internals are reflecting light around differently.
My bigger curiosity is how the issue didn't show on the prototype I tested at all. I guess it has something to do with the change in coatings or internal paint for the production model, and I expect LLL will correct the issue with a new version at some point just like they made improvements with the 8-element after the first batches.
Desmolicious wrote:
Maybe that’s why this lens has been heavily discounted so soon after its release? So they can clear the stock ahead of the improved version.
I think that’s just Popflash’s normal thing they do, which is demand-based pricing and/or a discount if they have more than one copy of something in stock.
I was able to borrow a copy of the SPII last weekend. It's such a nicely made lens. The improvement in aperture mechanism vs 8-Element and 'Elcan' is welcomed (in my opinion). On an M5, the larger size of the lens is less noticeable and the overall impression is handsome (especially if you're like me and you realize the M5 is a beautiful design ).
I have yet to scan my film (and I have another roll to develop), but the negatives look nice. I played with it a bit on my Sony A7rII and compared it to a couple other modern-made, vintage style lenses. The SPII shows higher central resolution vs the 'Elcan' and f/2 Heliar, but has much more spherical aberration (for comedic comparison the VM Nokton f/1 has higher central resolution at f/1 than any of the above lenses at f/2). The bokeh is round with hard edges around the circumference of out-of-focus highlights at full aperture. There is no swirl. The look is active and draws attention to itself.
I'm excited to see how the film scans turn out, but at first glance, there are other 50mm lenses that I enjoy using more. That being said, I can see how people would love the SPII.
I've just received the SPII (v2), and the exciting update is that it's perfectly calibrated with the RF. The mechanics and finish are impressive too, with a delicate brass line visible on the edges. The lens itself weighs 349 grams, and the hood is equally well-built. That's all I can share for now as the Voigtlander 28/2.8 Color-Skopar has also arrived at my doorstep.
Fred Miranda wrote:
I've just received the SPII (v2), and the exciting update is that it's perfectly calibrated with the RF. The mechanics and finish are impressive too, with a delicate brass line visible on the edges. The lens itself weighs 349 grams, and the hood is equally well-built. That's all I can share for now as the Voigtlander 28/2.8 Color-Skopar has also arrived at my doorstep.
I have the brassed version as well, and I agree it's impressively made. But mine is boxed up and ready to send back for a refund – still trying to decide for sure. I really want LLL to succeed with this lens, and I'm bummed it ended up having an issue at small f-stops. If the lens were more compact, I might learn to live with it. Lots of Voigtlander lenses I could get for the same money.
highdesertmesa wrote:
I have the brassed version as well, and I agree it's impressively made. But mine is boxed up and ready to send back for a refund – still trying to decide for sure. I really want LLL to succeed with this lens, and I'm bummed it ended up having an issue at small f-stops. If the lens were more compact, I might learn to live with it. Lots of Voigtlander lenses I could get for the same money.
It undeniably offers excellent value for the money with its top-notch build quality. I'll investigate the reported blue cast and put it to the test myself using the method you described. Although I've been informed that this particular copy doesn't show the issue, I'll mostly shoot with this lens wide open or at f/2.8-4. This way, if there happens to be any flare or cast, it should be minimal.
This is a sequence taken with the M10-R + SP II (v2) lens, ranging from f/2 to f/22 with 1-stop increments:
To my observation, I noticed a slight center blue cast at f/22 and perhaps just a subtle hint at f/16. It's possible that this variation could be due to differences between individual copies of the lens.
By the way, I was pleasantly surprised by the lens's sharpness when shooting wide open. It might even be sharper than the Leica 50/2 Rigid. I'm absolutely in love with the rendering. I knew I shouldn't have hesitated to try this one!
Fred Miranda wrote:
This is a sequence taken with the M10-R + SP II (v2) lens, ranging from f/2 to f/22 with 1-stop increments:
To my observation, I noticed a slight center blue cast at f/22 and perhaps just a subtle hint at f/16. It's possible that this variation could be due to differences between individual copies of the lens.
By the way, I was pleasantly surprised by the lens's sharpness when shooting wide open. It might even be sharper than the Leica 50/2 Rigid. I'm absolutely in love with the rendering. I knew I shouldn't have hesitated to try this one!
Hmm, it seems then that there is a lot of sample variation between lenses resulting in that blue haze.
The blue haze will really only show as dramatic artifact as a visible dot at f/22. At f/16, it's a more diffuse wider spot. From f/11 to f/8, you need to move the camera around and watch how the center changes a uniform surface in the shadows. I also bumped up the exposure a stop over the correct exposure so that the dark/shaded parts of the scene are exposed more brightly. It's in these shadows where you can see the central haze when moving the camera around.
I saw in your picture of your lens something that made me curious about my lens. So mine does not have "V2" written on the lens. It is black and is 548/998 from Popflash in supposedly the first batch they received. I received this lens on 6/14/23.
algrove wrote:
I saw in your picture of your lens something that made me curious about my lens. So mine does not have "V2" written on the lens. It is black and is 548/998 from Popflash in supposedly the first batch they received. I received this lens on 6/14/23.
LLL says that V2 is just the second set of serial numbers. They sold the first 998 and needed to start over. No changes to the lens between the unlabeled ones and the V2.
highdesertmesa wrote:
LLL says that V2 is just the second set of serial numbers. They sold the first 998 and needed to start over. No changes to the lens between the unlabeled ones and the V2.
I wonder if that is in fact true about no changes.
You also maybe make a good point about BSI sensors that I have only used this lens with, i.e., M11 and SL2S. On a business trip right now for 2 weeks, but will try to test f22 at some point soon. My copy sure is sharp as shown in image on P28#2.
Can someone else with a BSI sensor camera try the lens out at f22?
Fred Miranda wrote:
This is a sequence taken with the M10-R + SP II (v2) lens, ranging from f/2 to f/22 with 1-stop increments:
To my observation, I noticed a slight center blue cast at f/22 and perhaps just a subtle hint at f/16. It's possible that this variation could be due to differences between individual copies of the lens.
By the way, I was pleasantly surprised by the lens's sharpness when shooting wide open. It might even be sharper than the Leica 50/2 Rigid. I'm absolutely in love with the rendering. I knew I shouldn't have hesitated to try this one!
Could also be the M sensor gives better results over other mirrorless platforms. The GFX 50SII (very thick cover glass) I was testing showed the issue more than the SL2 (thinner cover glass but not M-thin). So could be the M10R you're using shows it less, and the M11 could would be even better. I have an M11M arriving tomorrow that I will test it with.
algrove wrote:
I wonder if that is in fact true about no changes.
You also maybe make a good point about BSI sensors that I have only used this lens with, i.e., M11 and SL2S. On a business trip right now for 2 weeks, but will try to test f22 at some point soon.
Can someone else with a BSI sensor camera try the lens out at f22?
Probably wise to wonder about the no changes thing. They could be saying that so that all the V1 owners aren't demanding a V2. But given how much hype there was around this lens before release, I tend to believe them. I wouldn't be surprised if at least one cinema lens rehousing company ordered a large batch to rehouse and resell.
I will try it out on the M11M tomorrow – BSI and no color filter array
We have to embrace it!
