Some time constrained ramblings. Specific questions welcome.
E-Shutter seems to not be an issue yet (so far no jelly images). Noticed flickering on the LCD but not in my images so far.
I haven’t tested flash but I’m not hopeful even though they included a hot shoe.
Camera is small but solid feeling with a nice finish. The buttons feel cheap to me, especially the shutter. The battery door lock/latch was poorly thought out and will break at some point.
Lens release button is overly large and strangely designed. The heat sink holes will fill with dust and be VERY hard to clean.
Customisation is well thought out in the QS menu but I feel some buttons need to allow for mapping (firmware can fix this). A direct way to change the focus point without touching the screen would be good. And a toggle for face detect on/off would add to the usability.
The preset LUTS seem like nonsense, I’d need to fine-tune JPGs before I could comment further. Very little customisation options but I will try.
Menu is straight forward and not confusing but options are limited. This is not a fancy camera. Scrolling through the menu is awkward but easily fixed in firmware. And I’ve only had to set the camera once as the QS menu works for most of my needs.
If I were using the camera for random snaps (and size was a priority) I feel it’s a better camera than most due to its limited function (strange to say but true). The Eye-detect is very good at picking out eyes at quite far distances. And the AF works the way I like, as in you can set it to either one point or multi but if face detect is on it’ll still use whatever AF setting you chose but overwrite it with a face present.
I would likely use this as either a backup to the SL2 (when it comes), or as a replacement to the Q/Q2 since 45mm is more preferable to me over 28mm. Though I will add the Q has better ergonomics and fits in my hand nicer.
Eye detect works better than on the S1 (in ideal conditions). The AF is worse in lower light and is overall slower to move the lens (bet this is to preserve battery). The FP gets far less confused than the S1 and thus far I’ve had less AF issues with AF-S on the FP.
The video AF is terrible on the FP and I have yet to test the AF-C mode.
The battery (with 35SL attached) drains pretty quickly. I feel the Q gets a lot more life out of the batteries. It shares the same battery with the Q but it’s cheaper than a Q battery.
I will do a more in depth AF test comparing the S1 and the FP, but mostly for my own reference.
I will be using the 50cronSL and 90cronSL tomorrow for my focus test and will get around to testing all my lenses ASAP.
If anyone has interest I'll try to take better notes.
I would like to note that the 35cronSL does not have issues on the FP.
This may be a very good solution for M lenses, I’ll test the focus peaking reliability and corner performance of some wide M lenses vs the M and S1 when I have a chance hopefully on Sunday if weather permits.
Overall I like the camera better than the S1, but I’ve never been one to need bells and whistles. The M satisfies me the most as a photographic tool but it’s nice to have a small camera that can AF. Let’s hope Sigma makes more little (45mm DN DG sized) lenses in the future. I still think the SL has a better balance of features to simplicity, so I’m eagerly awaiting the SL2. If the SL2 disappoints I would probably move away from the L-mount and stick with the EOSR rather than trying to make the FP or the S1 work for me.
Will m lens show EXIF with m to L adapter? How is camera color in LR? Also, if you adapt any lens, do you have option to put focal length? Will it carry to EXIF?
Simpler AF setting sounds good for me. I don’t use any Fancy AF feature and settings on S1 so those feature just made the menu cluster and more confusing.
If everything works out nicely for you, and for me on paper I might get it as well at end of this year. I am not in a hurry though but sigma 45 is really a wonderful glass. I think they will introduce more with the success of this 45 brought.
If anyone think of video, this seems a no brainer.
adamdewilde wrote:
Some time constrained ramblings. Specific questions welcome.
E-Shutter seems to not be an issue yet (so far no jelly images). Noticed flickering on the LCD but not in my images so far.
I haven’t tested flash but I’m not hopeful even though they included a hot shoe.
Camera is small but solid feeling with a nice finish. The buttons feel cheap to me, especially the shutter. The battery door lock/latch was poorly thought out and will break at some point.
Lens release button is overly large and strangely designed. The heat sink holes will fill with dust and be VERY hard to clean.
Customisation is well thought out in the QS menu but I feel some buttons need to allow for mapping (firmware can fix this). A direct way to change the focus point without touching the screen would be good. And a toggle for face detect on/off would add to the usability.
The preset LUTS seem like nonsense, I’d need to fine-tune JPGs before I could comment further. Very little customisation options but I will try.
Menu is straight forward and not confusing but options are limited. This is not a fancy camera. Scrolling through the menu is awkward but easily fixed in firmware. And I’ve only had to set the camera once as the QS menu works for most of my needs.
If I were using the camera for random snaps (and size was a priority) I feel it’s a better camera than most due to its limited function (strange to say but true). The Eye-detect is very good at picking out eyes at quite far distances. And the AF works the way I like, as in you can set it to either one point or multi but if face detect is on it’ll still use whatever AF setting you chose but overwrite it with a face present.
I would likely use this as either a backup to the SL2 (when it comes), or as a replacement to the Q/Q2 since 45mm is more preferable to me over 28mm. Though I will add the Q has better ergonomics and fits in my hand nicer.
Eye detect works better than on the S1 (in ideal conditions). The AF is worse in lower light and is overall slower to move the lens (bet this is to preserve battery). The FP gets far less confused than the S1 and thus far I’ve had less AF issues with AF-S on the FP.
The video AF is terrible on the FP and I have yet to test the AF-C mode.
The battery (with 35SL attached) drains pretty quickly. I feel the Q gets a lot more life out of the batteries. It shares the same battery with the Q but it’s cheaper than a Q battery.
I will do a more in depth AF test comparing the S1 and the FP, but mostly for my own reference.
I will be using the 50cronSL and 90cronSL tomorrow for my focus test and will get around to testing all my lenses ASAP.
If anyone has interest I'll try to take better notes.
I would like to note that the 35cronSL does not have issues on the FP.
This may be a very good solution for M lenses, I’ll test the focus peaking reliability and corner performance of some wide M lenses vs the M and S1 when I have a chance hopefully on Sunday if weather permits.
Overall I like the camera better than the S1, but I’ve never been one to need bells and whistles. The M satisfies me the most as a photographic tool but it’s nice to have a small camera that can AF. Let’s hope Sigma makes more little (45mm DN DG sized) lenses in the future. I still think the SL has a better balance of features to simplicity, so I’m eagerly awaiting the SL2. If the SL2 disappoints I would probably move away from the L-mount and stick with the EOSR rather than trying to make the FP or the S1 work for me....Show more →
You’re in Los Angeles too? Can I ask where you bought it to get it on release day? Neither my Adorama nor BHPhoto orders have even begun to process, and I ordered within minutes of the original preorder launch.
Edit: Oh, sorry, are you in Singapore these days?
Briwil wrote:
You’re in Los Angeles too? Can I ask where you bought it to get it on release day? Neither my Adorama nor BHPhoto orders have even begun to process, and I ordered within minutes of the original preorder launch.
Edit: Oh, sorry, are you in Singapore these days?
Singapore currently sorry to get your hopes up, though I think it was released worldwide yesterday so you should get your order very soon.
serhan_ wrote:
Thanks again for the first impressions.
Do they include any accessory grip with the camera?
Yes, the tests with m lenses esp wide end will be helpful.
Also, how is the magnification in mf, eg thru the screen or can you assign to a button?
I see low ISO 6, 8, 10, etc. Is that for movies only or can be used with photos?
Can you edit the photos from raw after the shot with the different color effects?
Just the camera body, body cap, adapter for hot shoe, usb to usbC, wall plug, battery, screw on eyelets, strap, booklets.
If you put it in M mode it will magnify when you zoom in PIP style. Also thee is one dedicated zoom button you can press and it'll magnify the whole screen. It'll stay magnified until you press the button again to turn it off, half pressing and holding the shutter will show the full screen for composition purposes.
ISO 100 is the lowest for photos.
Yes you can edit a RAW in camera after shooting. The options you can change are as follows:
Exposure
WB
JPG quality
JPG size
aspect ratio
colour profile (which has other fine tuning options)
SRGB or ETC
tone
fill light
lens compensation
zhangyue wrote:
Will m lens show EXIF with m to L adapter? How is camera color in LR? Also, if you adapt any lens, do you have option to put focal length? Will it carry to EXIF?
M lenses so far do not show EXIF, the Sigma doesn't ask what FL is attached. And it won't magnify when focusing automatically with non-L lenses.
It will automatically go into M mode though where PIP will activate as the focus assist.
Camera colour so far in LR RAW reminds me of the S1, I'll have to do a side by side test later today to be sure. I can use my colour checker but I'd rather go by instinct. Ok, I'll do both
NOTE: It's weird to see uncalibrated M lenses. And from my initial not very good test shot with the 21SEM the corners seem much softer than with the M. But don't hold me to this, I'll test properly later.
Shutter speed, ISO, Aperture are identical. I had them both on aperture priority and they both spat out the EXACT same settings, it's neat to note they metered the scene the same is what I mean to say. Both shot with the 50CronSL.
PLEASE NOTE: I shot through glass as I'm too lazy to leave my house right now. Please also note that I edited the WB to be the same and added my standard curve adjustment (that was actually built for the S1 so it has an advantage). The FP was MUCH easier to WB to my preference/what I feel the light looks like today. For some weird reason (I don't have these settings turned on or anything) I feel like the FP saved the highlights better especially in the greens and blues. Whereas the S1 almost "gave up". Again weird as I expected them to be the same. I will now need to shoot some portraits to test skin tones (another day). Sigma shot first, S1 shot after and a bonus Sigma cloud shot (miss that un-profiled vignetting seen on the 21SEM)
roastgoose wrote:
How is wireless transfer from Camera to phone? Is NFC usable or is it Wifi? Is it a pain to use or is it easy and straight forward?
There is no wireless transfer. I suppose Sigma could easily remedy that if they wanted to with a module that sits on the side of the camera (like Canon use to do).
nehemiahphoto wrote:
Thanks for the updates Adam. Will you be posting any crops or high res photos with m-lenses?
That's what I am most curious about.
I will try to do that tomorrow or Monday with a few but not all my M lenses.
My suspicion is that it's worse than the S1 because it's geared towards video shooters and Sigma was probably more worried about moire control than M lens viability.
In term of M glass performance, I think most likely it will be the same as S1 which is not bad. Do you guys know if this one has low pass filter? For S1, I am quite happy with corner sharpness of m Wide glass, but it seems has more vignette compare to Z7.
I am quite disappointed with no EXIF For M, Assume you using official M to L adapter. especially consider Sigma’s commercial show so many scenes Leica M glass on PF.
Based on my feeling about Sigma, I think most likely they will incorporate it in the future. Don’t know why, but I just got the feeling that they are the company will get this right.
I will wait for your feedback once you spend more time with it, no matter what, the size and video advantages will be always there.
zhangyue wrote:
In term of M glass performance, I think most likely it will be the same as S1 which is not bad. Do you guys know if this one has low pass filter? For S1, I am quite happy with corner sharpness of m Wide glass, but it seems has more vignette compare to Z7.
I am quite disappointed with no EXIF For M, Assume you using official M to L adapter. especially consider Sigma’s commercial show so many scenes Leica M glass on PF.
Based on my feeling about Sigma, I think most likely they will incorporate it in the future. Don’t know why, but I just got the feeling that they are the company will get this right.
I will wait for your feedback once you spend more time with it, no matter what, the size and video advantages will be always there. ...Show more →
Yes using the Leica branded adapter w/6-bit laser reader. I think it's just somehow overlooked for the first round of firmware updates. They'll get it right.
I just test it on S1, it is superb. I can’t believe my eyes that it fully sharp at f4。base on what i saw its test on SL, I have a feeling S1 has about same performance as SL on M glass.
You know PF and 28/50 cron will be so lovely.
adamdewilde wrote:
Yes using the Leica branded adapter w/6-bit laser reader. I think it's just somehow overlooked for the first round of firmware updates. They'll get it right.
I just test it on S1, it is superb. I can’t believe my eyes that it fully sharp at f4。base on what i saw its test on SL, I have a feeling S1 has about same performance as SL on M glass.
You know PF and 28/50 cron will be so lovely.
I was tossed between getting 28Summilux, 28Summicron, 28Elmarit, 28Summaron when I was rebuilding my kit after having sold all M gear aside from the 50APO. Anyway long story short I bought the 28Lux and then I ended up getting a 28elmarit in a trade so I opted to not get the 28cron or the 28summiron (as I was trying not to overbuy). That didn't work out at all and now I have EVERY current M lenses aside from the 28Cron, 18SEM, 90APO and I don't own any of the Summarits [FAIL].
But for the simplicity of this test I can shoot with one or two problematic lenses and see how they do.
rscheffler wrote:
Definitely color shift present. I guess it's not a BSI sensor...
Thanks for the feedback about the camera. Glad it doesn't generally suck.
Yeah I'm pretty happy with owning it as a backup. I keep saying owning it as a backup because it doesn't have a small little EVF at the top corner and I'm not one to shoot with the camera held out away from me. I don't like other people looking over my shoulder seeing what I'm shooting on the LCD. Otherwise I've not had issues with it enough to want to sell it. The S1 on the other hand I just simply do not like for a number of reasons.
Sorry I haven't gotten around to testing M lenses on the EOSR, frankly I haven't hand luck finding a EOSR to M adapter from my local camera dealers and I'm too lazy to research and order one online. Also I'm not likely to use M lenses on anything but a M body (only reason I have the M adapter SL [for the second time, sold my first one due to it not getting used] was to help facilitate a deal with a dealer of mine). Ahhh maybe I'll order a Novoflex adapter online to test the EOSR. Though I have a feeling nothing will do as well as the M as nobody has incentive to make sensor stacks compatible.
So I did the test with the 21SEM, 24LUX, 28LUX and to my eyes the M10 performs a lot better than the other two bodies with all the lenses at all the focal lengths (no real surprise).
The Sigma FP seems to me like it's about the same as the S1 but I got some odd results between lenses (21SEM, 24Lux, 28Lux) which makes me wonder if it's the FP E-shutter, the adapter I have is faulty or my technique/location suck.
I might run the tests again on a sunnier day with different wide lenses and see what happens.
