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Archive 2019 · Sigma FP - In hand first impressions.

  
 
rscheffler
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p.3 #1 · Sigma FP - In hand first impressions.


zhangyue wrote:
Your observation make me delay my acquisition of 28cron for two years As I only trust your test compare to others at that times, either copy variation or the lens problem itself scare me off. Finally, I break down as I need either a 35mm or 28mm to cover between 21 and 50, I am very happy with Nikon 35mmf1.8S performance, I figured it will raise the bar too high that I might disappointed with any 35mm leica lenses, and I sold VC35mm because it is a outlier of my M setup and I hate its focus ring design.
...Show more

Yes, crops would be interesting to see. I think it's copy variation because others back then stated/claimed they didn't see the same problems I did. It's also worth noting that both copies I received from the same store were early production units, from before the actual public announcement (based on the manufacture date on each box). It could have been early production teething pains. IIRC, from the look of the optical formula, there's not much difference between the two versions and the problems I experienced might have been from something as basic as improper lens element spacing. The store offered to send the lens back to Leica for servicing but knowing how long that would take, and being skeptical they'd be able to actually fix anything, opted instead try the Lux.

---------------------------------------------

adamdewilde wrote:
I don't mind if you guys take this forum off topic I'm not fussed.


Thanks, much appreciated. It's discussions like these that add such value to the Alt forum. Unfortunately nearly everyone who used to participate in these discussions seems to have migrated to the Sony forum...

adamdewilde wrote:
EDIT: BTW how do you like the 28Lux? After using the Q for so long I bought the 28Lux and then the Q2 and I've found myself wanting to use the 28Lux over both the Q and Q2 even though it's bigger/heavier and more of a hassle. I just love the way it renders at closer distances (think in your face type portraits). I had one AGES ago and sold it in three days. I bought it on a whim and didn't like the size but since it was "rare" in the market (was one of the first in Singapore)
...Show more

I loved the 28 Cron's rendering, perhaps because it was somewhat unique among M lenses I owned/tried. The 28 Lux feels more typical of fast Leica M lenses. It better matches the colour and tonality qualities of the 50 Lux ASPH, IMO. The Cron was different. Somewhat higher contrast, bolder, with a slight magenta tint (which annoyed me when aiming for consistent colour across multiple lenses in post). I decided to stick with the 28 Lux in part because of the extra stop, which with the M240 makes a difference. If you'll recall, the M240's buffer depth drops by half at ISO 1250 and higher, and the fps rate also decreases. For indoor events, etc., the extra stop keeps the ISO at 1000 and still gets me a reasonable shutter speed most of the time. But I'm also impressed by how sharp the Lux is wide open and unlike a lot of M Lux models, has little of the typical wavy field curvature. In contrast, the original 28 Cron has simple field curvature away from the camera that can be problematic in some instances, like group photos. Or the 21 Lux which has strong wavy field curvature that is a problem with anything placed in the mid zone area at wider apertures (to a degree also true for the 50 Lux ASPH). The 28 Lux has pretty much replaced the 21 Lux that I used to use a lot. I still have it (in part because resale value is terrible) and still use it when I really do need a fast 21mm, but most of the time 28 works. Off tangent - I'd love to see a Voigtlander 21/1.4 in M mount of the same caliber as the E-mount version. Yeah, the 28 Lux is large for a wide M lens. If I were to update to the M10, the 28 Cron would probably be back in consideration, haha. And yes, the 28 Lux shows some CA but purple fringing at and near wide open in high contrast transitions is probably its most annoying quality, also shared by the 21 and 24 Luxes.



Nov 02, 2019 at 10:49 PM
zhangyue
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p.3 #2 · Sigma FP - In hand first impressions.


Will post some crop later. I just check that at close distance, it is still focus shift with M, DOF barely cover it if I am picky.

I agree with discussion here before. It is more fun and more pleasing to read no matter what system people shoot.

Thank you for share your view of 28lux. I’d love to have 28lux or 50Noct, but those are big and expensive. I think I am set for a while with my M system. 28/50cron APO or 50lux are all so good and pair nicely to each other. 90APO got beat by many new 85mm fast glasses in term of flare and contrast, however, size and rendering and resolution are still top dog. And I have 35lux V2 and 75lux for old school rendering. M glasses are just more fun to me and certainly keep their value better.

Unlike Adam, maybe because I don’t shoot AF much and I like their 70-200. I am quite happy with S1, it is a modern D700 to me, for now I don’t see FP can replace it.

rscheffler wrote:
Yes, crops would be interesting to see. I think it's copy variation because others back then stated/claimed they didn't see the same problems I did. It's also worth noting that both copies I received from the same store were early production units, from before the actual public announcement (based on the manufacture date on each box). It could have been early production teething pains. IIRC, from the look of the optical formula, there's not much difference between the two versions and the problems I experienced might have been from something as basic as improper lens element spacing. The store offered
...Show more



Nov 03, 2019 at 12:27 AM
adamdewilde
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p.3 #3 · Sigma FP - In hand first impressions.


rscheffler wrote:
Yes, crops would be interesting to see. I think it's copy variation because others back then stated/claimed they didn't see the same problems I did. It's also worth noting that both copies I received from the same store were early production units, from before the actual public announcement (based on the manufacture date on each box). It could have been early production teething pains. IIRC, from the look of the optical formula, there's not much difference between the two versions and the problems I experienced might have been from something as basic as improper lens element spacing. The store offered
...Show more

OMG you guys are forcing my hand on this 28Cron issue.
I've noticed the 24Lux has a weird expression of CA/purple fringing. The 21 and 28 lux lenses do have purple fringing (with my 28 being the worst offender). But the 24Lux shows some weird fringing that IMHO adds a great deal to photos when shooting those teal blue skies whereas I find the CA/purple fringing distracting on the 21/28.

I've been putting a lot of stuff center center lately, my skills with the M have admittedly gone down greatly since I stopped shooting weddings. I can still shoot someone walking when I'm walking backwards wide open (1.4) or when I'm standing still and someone is walking quick, but my keeper rate wide open has gone down significantly. I feel myself hesitating a lot more than I use to which would make me miss spur of the minute moments.

I also hate to admit it but unless I force myself to use my other M lenses I'm likely to just shoot with the 50APO and the 28Lux has seen some use (again for some odd reason I've taken a liking to it lately). I could honestly sell everything off aside from the 50APO and stitch my way though a beautiful country. But I feel my hoarder/FOMO mentality would kick in and I'd be upset if I sold off my M collection for the 3rd(?)4th time..

Right now I'm still quite alright using the FP w/SL f/2 primes but I think I'll get bored of that way of shooting and I'll go back to Zhangyue's way of thinking which is "OVF and rangefinder to control the focus, 90% of time, I don’t enjoy AF at all, photography is a process for me than easy to get final results." - This type of sentiment always brings me back to M and then I spend more money trying to rebuild my kit.

So I'm likely to just keep my full M kit and the SL primes with the FP. Will probably also keep the Canon R and get rid of everything else. I find my self wanting to use medium format less and less with the SL primes as I feel they're they right balance of size to speed to quality and paired with the FP so far they've been less of a burden to carry (as in one camera one lens) a whole day than with the S1.



Nov 04, 2019 at 12:16 AM
adamdewilde
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p.3 #4 · Sigma FP - In hand first impressions.


zhangyue wrote:
Will post some crop later. I just check that at close distance, it is still focus shift with M, DOF barely cover it if I am picky.

I agree with discussion here before. It is more fun and more pleasing to read no matter what system people shoot.

Thank you for share your view of 28lux. I’d love to have 28lux or 50Noct, but those are big and expensive. I think I am set for a while with my M system. 28/50cron APO or 50lux are all so good and pair nicely to each other. 90APO got beat by many
...Show more

I guess a good way to look at the FP vs S1 in my mind is as follows.. The FP reminds me of an M the S1 reminds me of a DSLR. Though the FP may have less buttons it's simple no frills shooting and small size is what I'm after. Whereas the S1 is a mess of menus and options and etc.. I don't need that complication in my life and I don't need the size of the camera body either. Simple eye AF that works well enough for static subjects is good enough for the way I want to use the camera.. Both cameras don't work as well as an A9 for moving subjects so if I needed a "sports camera" I wouldn't own either.



Nov 04, 2019 at 12:22 AM
adamdewilde
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p.3 #5 · Sigma FP - In hand first impressions.


Oh also I bought the HG-11 grip (seeing it you know it's the most uncomfortable design ever).

Anyway I was right to guess the grip would be uncomfortable but I bought it because I plan to only use it with gloves in Japan this winter. I tried the camera yesterday with my leather gloves on and it's ok because no real buttons and quite big shutter/aperture dials. BUT then I put on my ski gloves (leather large arcteryx gloves) and I felt like holding it while skiing while wet with snow might be a pain. So after dinner I went to the store to buy the grip.

Again the grip is not at all comfortable (you should be able to tell from the photos). It's a horrid design but it works REALLY well with both my gloves. So as long as I wear gloves in Tokyo/Niseko which I plan to do I should be fine keeping the grip on my whole winter trip. Really good for one handed shooting too, which again will be likely while skiing.

Also if I choose not to wear gloves a simple coin can easily remove the grip and the strap lug.



Nov 04, 2019 at 12:29 AM
zhangyue
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p.3 #6 · Sigma FP - In hand first impressions.


rscheffler wrote:
Yes, crops would be interesting to see. I think it's copy variation because others back then stated/claimed they didn't see the same problems I did. It's also worth noting that both copies I received from the same store were early production units, from before the actual public announcement (based on the manufacture date on each box). It could have been early production teething pains. IIRC, from the look of the optical formula, there's not much difference between the two versions and the problems I experienced might have been from something as basic as improper lens element spacing. The store offered
...Show more

Ron, here is full image following with crop at center, mid and corner all at f2 WO with M10P

This is definitely better than cron v1 I had. This lens will be a nice pair for 50cron APO for me.

untitled-12 by ZHNL, on Flickr

untitled-24 by ZHNL, on Flickr

untitled-25 by ZHNL, on Flickr

untitled-26 by ZHNL, on Flickr



Nov 04, 2019 at 01:47 AM
zhangyue
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p.3 #7 · Sigma FP - In hand first impressions.


adamdewilde wrote:
I guess a good way to look at the FP vs S1 in my mind is as follows.. The FP reminds me of an M the S1 reminds me of a DSLR. Though the FP may have less buttons it's simple no frills shooting and small size is what I'm after. Whereas the S1 is a mess of menus and options and etc.. I don't need that complication in my life and I don't need the size of the camera body either. Simple eye AF that works well enough for static subjects is good enough for the way I want
...Show more


FP couldn't read M lens EXIF is a problem for me, I am not even sure this will get supported in the future given Panasonic has much closer relationship with Leica, so S1 has that. Leica SL can't even mount Sigma EF to L adapter.

Then, it doesn't have IBIS and it only has electronic shutter. These could be all real issues for me. Though size advantage and fun to use may take all. I will wait a little bit before any decision. Hopefully, at that time, we can have firmware update on FP make it more attractive.



Nov 04, 2019 at 01:52 AM
serhan_
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p.3 #8 · Sigma FP - In hand first impressions.


I got mine on Friday and was checking it on Sat. The sensor is great with the high ISO/dynamic range. I like its mf magnification eg goes back to normal view at half shutter press. The lcd is not great for outside day light use...

I had 3 times there is no images in the card to view messages, even after a new card... I am guessing it is solved after I reset the camera several times and set up ael button to magnification on both focus and view... So I lost some images as I formatted to cards...

Yes, no exif becomes a problem after shooting with many different lenses... Mostly newer CV lenses and contax g 45mm behave good but the older lenses has problems and the heavy vignetting so it is not optimized for m lenses and no profiles...

Also, no IBIS and electronic shutter caused me some unsharp images at even at shutter speeds of 1.5 x lens dia. The min shutter speed selection is buried under ISO button, which should be in the quick menu... When you hit the images are good but you have to watch carefully...

I tried mc-21 adapter and that was not great either compared to MC-11 experience. It works with my old Sigma 24-60mm zoom but the Canon 50mm 1.8 stm was not great. 40mm 2.8 stm was nearly silent, but again slower contrast focus...

I used the small hand grip which works but the larger one might be better with the bigger lenses... The large grip is not yet available...

zhangyue wrote:
FP couldn't read M lens EXIF is a problem for me, I am not even sure this will get supported in the future given Panasonic has much closer relationship with Leica, so S1 has that. Leica SL can't even mount Sigma EF to L adapter.

Then, it doesn't have IBIS and it only has electronic shutter. These could be all real issues for me. Though size advantage and fun to use may take all. I will wait a little bit before any decision. Hopefully, at that time, we can have firmware update on FP make it more attractive.





Nov 04, 2019 at 11:47 AM
rscheffler
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p.3 #9 · Sigma FP - In hand first impressions.


zhangyue wrote:
Ron, here is full image following with crop at center, mid and corner all at f2 WO with M10P

This is definitely better than cron v1 I had. This lens will be a nice pair for 50cron APO for me.


Thanks for the crops. That's really excellent for wide open, definitely better than the v1. I assume the sharpness holds up stopped down to f/4, 5.6, 8 etc.?

The copy I had was definitely better across the frame wide open than the v1, but fell apart once stopped down due to the strong field curvature. If it performed like yours at all apertures, I definitely would have kept it.



Nov 04, 2019 at 07:06 PM
zhangyue
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p.3 #10 · Sigma FP - In hand first impressions.


Hi, Ron, I can post crop later once I am at home. I think it improves further upon stop down.

However, keep in mind I have to refocus even stop to f2.8 as focus plain shift to backward. This lens has strong focus shift, stronger than any M glasses I handled. I don’t know it is my copy or it is by design. If you didn’t do so at that time, what you see may more then field curvature as DOF no longer hide curvature if there is any and with my case, it possible it do have FC but simple deep DOF once stop down just cover it up at 24M.

rscheffler wrote:
Thanks for the crops. That's really excellent for wide open, definitely better than the v1. I assume the sharpness holds up stopped down to f/4, 5.6, 8 etc.?

The copy I had was definitely better across the frame wide open than the v1, but fell apart once stopped down due to the strong field curvature. If it performed like yours at all apertures, I definitely would have kept it.




Nov 04, 2019 at 07:42 PM
rscheffler
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p.3 #11 · Sigma FP - In hand first impressions.


I couldn't get the edges of the frame as sharp as the CV35/1.7 or the Cron v1 stopped down past f/4. I would have to find my test files and re-examine them for focus shift. It's possibly there, but maybe I was more thrown off by the field curvature I saw. It was quite obvious if there was a flat foreground area where you could see the arc of the curvature.


Nov 04, 2019 at 10:14 PM
zhangyue
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p.3 #12 · Sigma FP - In hand first impressions.


rscheffler wrote:
I couldn't get the edges of the frame as sharp as the CV35/1.7 or the Cron v1 stopped down past f/4. I would have to find my test files and re-examine them for focus shift. It's possibly there, but maybe I was more thrown off by the field curvature I saw. It was quite obvious if there was a flat foreground area where you could see the arc of the curvature.


Hi, Ron, Here are results of f5.6 with m10p

full
untitled by ZHNL, on Flickr
center
untitled-2 by ZHNL, on Flickr
mid
untitled-3 by ZHNL, on Flickr
corner
untitled-4 by ZHNL, on Flickr
mid_low_left for FC evaluation
untitled-5 by ZHNL, on Flickr
mid_low_right for FC evaluation
untitled-6 by ZHNL, on Flickr



Nov 05, 2019 at 02:12 AM
adamdewilde
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p.3 #13 · Sigma FP - In hand first impressions.


imagesfromobjects wrote:
Can you please test the Elmarit-M 28/2.8 Asph if you have it on-hand? I've found it *more* than usable on a7S, but there is definitely FC. Most noticeable at wide apertures and up close (<3m) which is mostly how I shoot with it. The FC is the "outward" variety where center at 2m will be in focus, but then something in the extreme corners at 5m will also be in focus.

Not the case at all on film, where I have yet to detect any FC (I've looked hard) so it leads me to believe that the sensor cover glass is
...Show more

I can't seem to get what you're getting. The center is sharp but nothing else is, the corners are REALLY soft radially out from the center it's quite bad on the FP. Also the vignetting and colour shift is worse than w/the wides I tested. In fact the FP and the 28elmarit-asph I wouldn't recommend using them together.



Nov 05, 2019 at 04:44 AM
rscheffler
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p.3 #14 · Sigma FP - In hand first impressions.


Just to clarify: which Elmarit ASPH version?


Nov 05, 2019 at 10:04 AM
imagesfromobjects
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p.3 #15 · Sigma FP - In hand first impressions.


Ah. Could be sample variation or something along those lines. Jim Kasson said pretty much the same thing about the Elmarit 28Asph on Sony A7S, but when I tried it, this is what I get wide open (click link for larger):

Untitled by memory colors, on Flickr

Not perfect, but minor vignetting and color shift. Sharp wide open to the edges if focus is placed there. Biggest issue is FC, but I was pleasantly surprised how well it did after reading such awful things. Due to the size, handling and 28mm being my favorite FL, it's become my default lens. The a7S is the most forgiving Sony, but I think I'll still rent an fp at some point to test it out for myself.

Thanks for reporting back!

adamdewilde wrote:
I can't seem to get what you're getting. The center is sharp but nothing else is, the corners are REALLY soft radially out from the center it's quite bad on the FP. Also the vignetting and colour shift is worse than w/the wides I tested. In fact the FP and the 28elmarit-asph I wouldn't recommend using them together.



Edited on Nov 05, 2019 at 10:16 AM · View previous versions



Nov 05, 2019 at 10:09 AM
imagesfromobjects
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p.3 #16 · Sigma FP - In hand first impressions.



Mine is Ist version, 11606. SN# 4006487.

rscheffler wrote:
Just to clarify: which Elmarit ASPH version?




Nov 05, 2019 at 10:11 AM
zhangyue
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p.3 #17 · Sigma FP - In hand first impressions.


I have meant to ask but forget: how is the shutter delay or response time compare to other MILC you used?

I feel S1 is slightly slower than Z that both is slower than any SLR.

adamdewilde wrote:
I can't seem to get what you're getting. The center is sharp but nothing else is, the corners are REALLY soft radially out from the center it's quite bad on the FP. Also the vignetting and colour shift is worse than w/the wides I tested. In fact the FP and the 28elmarit-asph I wouldn't recommend using them together.




Nov 05, 2019 at 07:08 PM
adamdewilde
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p.3 #18 · Sigma FP - In hand first impressions.


rscheffler wrote:
Just to clarify: which Elmarit ASPH version?


Right sorry V1, I don't use the lens enough to justify V2 I got it in a trade deal and haven't really bothered using it.



Nov 05, 2019 at 09:19 PM
adamdewilde
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p.3 #19 · Sigma FP - In hand first impressions.


zhangyue wrote:
I have meant to ask but forget: how is the shutter delay or response time compare to other MILC you used?

I feel S1 is slightly slower than Z that both is slower than any SLR.



Fast enough where I didn't think to mention it. After using the A9 everything seems less spectacular but even then I don't crave the A9's zero-blackout.

I don't know what the spec sheet says but side by side my feeling is that the Panasonic S1 is a little slower w/mechanical shutter and about the same with silent shooting. I might only say "a little slower" with mechanical because there is a noise and my brain might be adding the noise to the length of the blackout.

But all in all if I went on instinct I would say the FP is a hair or two faster. By no means quick (but less noticeable than the EOSRs freeze frame) and nothing that hinders my photography (again I wouldn't use this camera for sports due to AF, I'd sooner pick up the EOSR with it's longer blackout [freeze frame] or buy another A9 if I was shooting sports).


EDIT: I will add that I remember the Z being good for blackout and felt the most like a DSLR too my eye (Nikon did a very good job and I still stand by that comment that it's probably the best implemented mirrorless on the market with the smartest lens lineup).



Nov 05, 2019 at 09:31 PM
adamdewilde
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p.3 #20 · Sigma FP - In hand first impressions.


Please keep in mind that I'm using the FP like a typical dentist/lawyer uses an M camera. Shooting cats, bicycles, people standing still, ducks that are too far away, park benches for the bokeh behind them, that sort of thing. But I have autofocus now so I guess I treat the FP like most treat the Q but with slightly bigger interchangeable lenses.

I like the SL f/2 primes, it's the only reason I bought the S1 and the only reason I bought the FP. I will sell the S1 for sure, no love from me at all. The FP I would NOT keep if it were just the 45mm or other small sigma primes. I'm only keeping it because I like the SL lenses and the body is small but not too small to still comfortably use the SL primes, but the key is the SL primes, they fit in the had very naturally so I don't need good ergonomics on the FP body I just need it to be small.

If the SL primes didn't exist I would probably stick with the EOSR as my main system I can use the f/1.2 RF L primes I don't mind the size as they offer something unique and eventually canon will have small primes. Plus I could still use an M system which probably won't ever get old (even though I downsize once every so often).



Nov 05, 2019 at 09:42 PM
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