p.5 #1 · FF Mirrorless, what's it going to take Sony, Canon, Nikon
1bwana1 wrote:
But it shows how the data is being wrongly presented, and perceived in the market.
Emphasis on "perceived".
I think it's a definite worry for Canikon. Mind share is not easy to reverse. I think if you ask older people they still think of Canon and Nikon as top brands but I'm not sure that's the case with younger people. It's been a few years of Sony and Fuji dominating the ML realm with frequent tech updates and breaking out of old established market segmentation (Canon gimping). For new people coming into photography with no legacy gear it's tough to recommend Canikon. The Youtuber's and website reviewers pretty much cement this view.
p.5 #2 · FF Mirrorless, what's it going to take Sony, Canon, Nikon
1bwana1 wrote:
This YouTube guy goes way further in wild speculation because of the new BCN dasta than any of us here on this thread. He also makes some big mistakes in facts including with the new Nikon prices. But it shows how the data is being wrongly presented, and perceived in the market.
Nikon should just give up on its current generation of mirrorless?!!!! This guy is way over the top.
I think he said Nikon should just give up on the recent price drops. Not mirrorless altogether. His point is that if Nikon would have seen the data then they might have realized that "price" is not driving the market, and therefore a big discount may not result in motivating purchases.
p.5 #3 · FF Mirrorless, what's it going to take Sony, Canon, Nikon
The way I heard it is that price is not enough to drive the Gen1 Z cameras, Nikon should give up on Gen1 and wait for Gen2 to compete in the mirrorless market. Starting at about 9:00 minutes.
p.5 #4 · FF Mirrorless, what's it going to take Sony, Canon, Nikon
I just think Nikon needed more Z lenses at launch. People are waiting for the 85mm and the 70-200 F2.8. What I call the moneymaker lenses before considering the Z7. FTZ adapter or not.
p.5 #5 · FF Mirrorless, what's it going to take Sony, Canon, Nikon
The dismal numbers are now being commented on by more and more photography "writers".
This from an FStoppers article:
"The shift does not prompt the likes of Canon and Nikon to spend more money on developing new products; by contrast, they will become increasingly conservative, a change that may have more serious implications for Nikon given its smaller range of market specializations when compared to Sony and Canon."
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p.5 #6 · FF Mirrorless, what's it going to take Sony, Canon, Nikon
RobCD wrote:
Yes, but the Z7 was released in August of 2018 so early 2021 will be pushing a 30 month cycle. Yes, 2 years is fast but that's the world we live in and with Nikon still needing to make significant strides I don't think they can have conservative cycles at least until they gain some ground. The firmware updates could buy them some time but only if they deliver a lot more than what has been shown so far. I do think the 2020 holiday season is ok but hopefully not much past that.
I thought I made it clear in my last post, I was saying Sept. 2020 or so and noting that it might be hard to keep that schedule. That is all I am saying. So, I was suggesting a 2 year schedule, but also recognizing that won't be easy for them.
p.5 #7 · FF Mirrorless, what's it going to take Sony, Canon, Nikon
1bwana1 wrote:
The dismal numbers are now being commented on by more and more photography "writers".
This from an FStoppers article:
"The shift does not prompt the likes of Canon and Nikon to spend more money on developing new products; by contrast, they will become increasingly conservative, a change that may have more serious implications for Nikon given its smaller range of market specializations when compared to Sony and Canon."
You wonder why both Canon and Nikon are spending their R&D dollars on some of that huge, expensive and very niche glass rather than filling the bread and butter lenses first.
p.5 #8 · FF Mirrorless, what's it going to take Sony, Canon, Nikon
chez wrote:
You wonder why both Canon and Nikon are spending their R&D dollars on some of that huge, expensive and very niche glass rather than filling the bread and butter lenses first.
By the 2nd half of 2019, more like the start of Q4, Canon RF mount will have:
p.5 #10 · FF Mirrorless, what's it going to take Sony, Canon, Nikon
Steve Spencer wrote:
Except very few small lenses. The only one that is small really is the 35 f/1.8.
The complaint was "bread and butter lenses", not "small lenses". You can still adapt any of your favorite EF lenses with even better AF performance in some cases while you wait.
p.5 #14 · FF Mirrorless, what's it going to take Sony, Canon, Nikon
Steve Spencer wrote:
A5 - by the end of 2020 I expect Sony to introduce a low level FF mirrorless. This will have the 24MP BSI sensor with good PDAF from the A7 III. It will get the EVF the the current A7R III uses and will get two UHS-II card slots and it will be better weather sealed. So basically the current A7 III with a couple nice upgrades and it will be aggressively priced at $1,500. Another way to think about it is this A5 will look almost exactly like the A7 IV (or whatever they call it) but will have a lower resolution sensor. This will be a great camera for a lot of people and we have the Canon RP to thank for it.
p.5 #15 · FF Mirrorless, what's it going to take Sony, Canon, Nikon
Steve Spencer wrote:
I thought I made it clear in my last post, I was saying Sept. 2020 or so and noting that it might be hard to keep that schedule. That is all I am saying. So, I was suggesting a 2 year schedule, but also recognizing that won't be easy for them.
I understood your last post but where we differ is that I don't believe they will miss the 2 year cycle and ideally they need to release a new Z camera of some kind before then. I know they can't keep this kind of pace long term but I think it's critical right now to do so.
p.5 #16 · FF Mirrorless, what's it going to take Sony, Canon, Nikon
1bwana1 wrote:
The dismal numbers are now being commented on by more and more photography "writers".
This from an FStoppers article:
"The shift does not prompt the likes of Canon and Nikon to spend more money on developing new products; by contrast, they will become increasingly conservative, a change that may have more serious implications for Nikon given its smaller range of market specializations when compared to Sony and Canon."
Hot topic. Although admittedly a small sample size/short period of time. Many in this industry want to know where this is going, both the future of advanced cameras and which players will dominate or not and maybe even survive or not.
I'd also like to know what Sonys approach, more of the same e.g., leap frog advances in short cycles or does the current slight slow down in new/refreshed FF camera bodies compared to recent years tell us something about Sonys future plans.
p.5 #17 · FF Mirrorless, what's it going to take Sony, Canon, Nikon
LBJ2 wrote:
Hot topic. Although admittedly a small sample size/short period of time. Many in this industry want to know where this is going, both the future of advanced cameras and which players will dominate or not and maybe even survive or not.
I'd also like to know what Sonys approach, more of the same e.g., leap frog advances in short cycles or does the current slight slow down in new/refreshed FF camera bodies compared to recent years tell us something about Sonys future plans.
From my crystal ball: in one year or so C will come up with with an RR with 5D class sensor. Also they will “leak” a future, even better RR+. 2 years later the RR+ will show up as an RR without the AA filter. However, the RR and the RR+ will be found to be crippled in complementary ways, so you couldn’t be fully happy with any of them. A mysterious R1 will be leaked at that time. 3 years later C will introduce a new lens mount.
p.5 #18 · FF Mirrorless, what's it going to take Sony, Canon, Nikon
1bwana1 wrote:
The way I heard it is that price is not enough to drive the Gen1 Z cameras, Nikon should give up on Gen1 and wait for Gen2 to compete in the mirrorless market. Starting at about 9:00 minutes.
Got it. I'll listen again.
Apr 29, 2019 at 05:06 PM
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p.5 #19 · FF Mirrorless, what's it going to take Sony, Canon, Nikon
RoamingScott wrote:
The complaint was "bread and butter lenses", not "small lenses". You can still adapt any of your favorite EF lenses with even better AF performance in some cases while you wait.
My complaint is small native R mount lenses and good small lenses in general. Other than the 40 f/2.8, which is very close to the R 35 f/1.8 I don't think any of the EF mount lenses are that small and good. Many are very out of date designs like the 50 f/1.8 and the 85 f/1.8 with a lot more aberrations than modern lenses. IMO, they need some small high performing f/1.8 lenses in the R mount. Their competitors have comparable lenses.
p.5 #20 · FF Mirrorless, what's it going to take Sony, Canon, Nikon
1bwana1 wrote:
The way I heard it is that price is not enough to drive the Gen1 Z cameras, Nikon should give up on Gen1 and wait for Gen2 to compete in the mirrorless market. Starting at about 9:00 minutes.
