p.20 #1 · FF Mirrorless, what's it going to take Sony, Canon, Nikon
chez wrote:
From a manufactures point of view, they don't care how many used lenses are bought and sold...it's only new equipment that matters and the industry sells more cameras than lenses ( in dollar value ) in a given year.
Although....
People often sell used lenses to help finance new lenses. I sold my 24-70 f/2.8 prior to buying the Mk II version of that lens, and I sold my 16-35 f/2.8 II before purchasing a new 16-35 f/4 IS. Bodies also - sold my 80D recently to buy an RP. It is part of the equation, albeit indirectly.
Also, someone with a large collection of a given brand is more likely to buy a camera of that brand than another. So it does play a role in that respect as well.
Of course, people do sell off one brand and buy into another system from time to time. The ebb and flow of a competitive market. Nobody stays on top forever (hopefully anyway).
p.20 #2 · FF Mirrorless, what's it going to take Sony, Canon, Nikon
Tom_W wrote:
Although....
People often sell used lenses to help finance new lenses. I sold my 24-70 f/2.8 prior to buying the Mk II version of that lens, and I sold my 16-35 f/2.8 II before purchasing a new 16-35 f/4 IS. Bodies also - sold my 80D recently to buy an RP. It is part of the equation, albeit indirectly.
Also, someone with a large collection of a given brand is more likely to buy a camera of that brand than another. So it does play a role in that respect as well.
Of course, people do sell off one brand and buy into another system from time to time. The ebb and flow of a competitive market. Nobody stays on top forever (hopefully anyway). ...Show more →
Still the point is that more cameras are sold than lenses in dollar value...so the notion that Canon regards cameras as secondary to the lenses does not make any sense. In fact I believe the CEO of Canon said they plan to put more focus on cameras for security systems and medical applications.
chez wrote:
Are you sure that's Canon's strategy? In 2018 the value of camera sales was greater than the value of lens sales. With cameras going electronic, I would think the prospect of profits is greater with cameras than lenses.
Steve and Chez, thanks so much for your comments and support.
Ugh - links to this guy are about as bad as links to KR's website. Mostly stupid clickbait. I make it a point of downvoting anything from him I run across :-)
p.20 #5 · FF Mirrorless, what's it going to take Sony, Canon, Nikon
pipspeak wrote:
Canon sensors might not be quite at the level of Sony's in terms of DR, but they're only a half stop or so behind in DR (although they beat the A9's, ironically) so they're hardly second rate. Millions of photographers use them... and win a lot of photography awards with them. I imagine the underlying tech is different, but ultimately I don't know much about it. Maybe the dual pixel tech is what limits DR on Canon sensors, or maybe Canon simply learned that higher DR is not what most photographers prioritize.
I'm certainly happy enough with Canon's sensor right now and if I were to switch to Sony mirrorless it wouldn't be because of the sensor tech.
I don't see the A9 beaten, to be honest. But that is not the point. You can use all of them to earn your money easily. The advantage with Sony is the fantastic AF system combined with AI + stacked sensor for no black-out silent shooting, eye-AF and world class tracking. I don't see the overall package matched by an other camera right now in this regard.
I don't see the A9 beaten, to be honest. But that is not the point. You can use all of them to earn your money easily. The advantage with Sony is the fantastic AF system combined with AI + stacked sensor for no black-out silent shooting, eye-AF and world class tracking. I don't see the overall package matched by an other camera right now in this regard.
I almost forgot about the joys of no-blackout shooting!
And eyeAF is really something that needs to be experienced if you want to understand how awesome it is.
p.20 #8 · FF Mirrorless, what's it going to take Sony, Canon, Nikon
GroovyGeek wrote:
Ugh - links to this guy are about as bad as links to KR's website. Mostly stupid clickbait. I make it a point of downvoting anything from him I run across :-)
I watch him occasionally on his YouTube Channel with my smartTV. No links to bother with at any time.
p.20 #14 · FF Mirrorless, what's it going to take Sony, Canon, Nikon
cameron12x wrote:
Does eyeAF work well with Canon adapted lenses on Sony bodies?
If so, I may venture into Sonyland for the first time.
I expect it does. On Sony native mount lenses it feels like cheating when dealing with the appropriate subject. I've also been using it with a TechArt Pro adapter and Leica manual-focus rangefinder lenses. It's shockingly quite good, particularly given the mechanical constraints of using the adapter to convert manual focus lenses to AF ones.
p.20 #15 · FF Mirrorless, what's it going to take Sony, Canon, Nikon
chez wrote:
Still the point is that more cameras are sold than lenses in dollar value...so the notion that Canon regards cameras as secondary to the lenses does not make any sense. In fact I believe the CEO of Canon said they plan to put more focus on cameras for security systems and medical applications.
Lens sales may become even more secondary given what these companies want for their branded optics. Canon just announced an 85mm f/1.2 that doesn't even have IS for $2700! That'll squelch the appetite for taking the lens bait - I bought an 85mm f/1.2L Mk I back in the day for around $1000. And as to contemporaries, compare the ludicrous pricing of the new Canon optic to the already expensive 85mm f/1.4 GM for Sony E-mount ($1700), which attaches to bodies that have IS built-in. And then there's the excellent Nikon 85mm f/1.4G for dSLRs that sells for $1500 that also has the option to be attached to a camera with in-body IS (Z6/7) and the excellent Sigma option at $1100.
p.20 #16 · FF Mirrorless, what's it going to take Sony, Canon, Nikon
Nikon just released financial result for the year ending March 31, 2019. It looks like Nikon is suffering the same drop in the camera business as some of the other big companies. Unit sales are down, Revenue down 17.9%, profit down 27.0%. It looks like the D850, the best DSLR ever made, continues to sell well. Nikon was a bit vague on the Z6/Z7 cameras. Only saying they were working on ways to increase sales of these. Whatever that means.....
[ Imaging Products Business ]
For the digital camera-interchangeable lens type, sales of the D850, a digital SLR camera, were strong, and the Group made efforts to increase sales of the new Z 7 and Z 6 full-frame mirrorless cameras, which have earned favorable reviews.
For the compact digital cameras, the Group focused on sales of high value-added products such as the
COOLPIX P1000, which is equipped with a 125x optical zoom lens.
However, unit sales of both digital camera-interchangeable lens type and compact digital cameras fell amidst the shrinking market. As a result, revenue for the Imaging Products Business decreased by 17.9% year on year to 296,169 million yen, and operating profit decreased by 27.0% year on year to 22,069 million yen.
Consolidated Data shows a large drop in units, and forecast for both unit and revenue down for next year.
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p.20 #17 · FF Mirrorless, what's it going to take Sony, Canon, Nikon
1bwana1 wrote:
Nikon just released financial result for the year ending March 31, 2019. It looks like Nikon is suffering the same drop in the camera business as some of the other big companies. Unit sales are down, Revenue down 17.9%, profit down 27.0%. It looks like the D850, the best DSLR ever made, continues to sell well. Nikon was a bit vague on the Z6/Z7 cameras. Only saying they were working on ways to increase sales of these. Whatever that means.....
[ Imaging Products Business ]
For the digital camera-interchangeable lens type, sales of the D850, a digital SLR camera, were strong, and the Group made efforts to increase sales of the new Z 7 and Z 6 full-frame mirrorless cameras, which have earned favorable reviews.
For the compact digital cameras, the Group focused on sales of high value-added products such as the
COOLPIX P1000, which is equipped with a 125x optical zoom lens.
However, unit sales of both digital camera-interchangeable lens type and compact digital cameras fell amidst the shrinking market. As a result, revenue for the Imaging Products Business decreased by 17.9% year on year to 296,169 million yen, and operating profit decreased by 27.0% year on year to 22,069 million yen.
Consolidated Data shows a large drop in units, and forecast for both unit and revenue down for next year.
p.20 #18 · FF Mirrorless, what's it going to take Sony, Canon, Nikon
Steve Spencer wrote:
The one piece of good news like the Canon report is although profits are down considerably, they are still making profits.
True, but looking at next years projections, Nikon thinks the camera profits are going to drop almost in half. Not the direction one wants to go.
May 09, 2019 at 08:05 AM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.20 #19 · FF Mirrorless, what's it going to take Sony, Canon, Nikon
chez wrote:
True, but looking at next years projections, Nikon thinks the camera profits are going to drop almost in half. Not the direction one wants to go.
True, but part of that at least is that they aren't really decreasing spending on R & D despite making less revenue. Reading the report as a whole it seems despite the reduced profits Nikon is quite committed to the photo business, so although the news is not great it doesn't look like they are even close to thinking about giving up yet. They seem to fighting the downward trend with a quite robust effort.
It really is a situation in which you can see the glass as half full or half empty and Nikon seems to say both.
They say, "the digital camera-interchangeable lens type market is expected to remain solid in the full-frame category."
But they also say, "the market as a whole is forecast to continue to shrink . . ."
p.20 #20 · FF Mirrorless, what's it going to take Sony, Canon, Nikon
1bwana1 wrote:
The latest from BNC on camera sales in Japan.
Sony, dominating and growing market share.
Canon, made a big play for volume at the low end which appears to be fading.
Nikon, at the bottom by a huge margin with no growth. Almost a non player market share wise. Sad....
What does Canon need to do to establish the market dominance in FF mirrorless that it traditionally held in DSLR? It looks like Canon's play of less camera for less money is not working.
What can Nikon do to compete, and not end up a small niche player in FF mirrorless. The Z cameras are clearly not doing well in the market. It looks like Nikon's play of less camera (still a pretty good one though) for more money is also not working.
