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Portrait and People Image Thread using Sony

  
 
numbertwo
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p.15 #1 · Portrait and People Image Thread using Sony


I've been doing some more eye-af tests.

The adapted sigma 35 1.4 is the most accurate lens I have hitting on the eyeball in every situation. It's also a really sharp lens even at close distances. When I compared it agains the Samyang 35, the Samyang was a bit sharper for landscape, but the sigma was better at portrait/close distances.

Samyang 85 1.4 and Sony 50 1.8 focus more in the eye lashes when very close, and going a bit further, it's more on the nose or eyebrows most of the time. These two lenses are also not as sharp at close distances compared to further away.

- The accuracy is better shooting with the camera in landscape orientation than in portrait orientation.
- Disabling IBIS improve accuracy for af-c eye-af, tested the Samyang and it makes a difference.
- In af-s, all lenses are pretty much perfect in the eyeball.
- I've tried back button af, disabling and enabling face detection, but not significative differences.

So,
- maybe IBIS movements are messing up af, specially focusing out center?
- maybe af-c behaviour is "too predictive" trying to focus forward?


Edit: I've been taking more test shots outdoors:

- The Sony 50 constantly front focused by a bit, only tried af-c eye af ibis on and off (camera in vertical orientation), but also the lens is not very sharp at 1.8...
- The sigma 35 seems to be front focusing as well most of the time in portrait orientation off-center.
Most of the tests were with the Samyang 85:
- AF-C, Eye-af ON, IBIS ON, portrait orientation off center: 60% very OOF (nose), 40% in focus
- AF-C, Eye-af ON, IBIS OFF, portrait orientation off center: 30% OOF, 70% in focus, the OOF are not as bad as with IBIS ON.
- AF-C, Eye-af OFF, small flexible spot, IBIS ON: 30% slightly OOF, 70% in focus.
- AF-C, Eye-af OFF, small flexible spot, IBIS OFF: 20% slightly OOF, 80% in focus, the sharpest of the bunch have been taken in this set.

Conclusions:
- Seems that IBIS is indeed negatively affecting focusing accuracy.
- Eye-af seems to be worse than small flexible spot.



Jun 30, 2019 at 05:02 AM
LBJ2
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p.15 #2 · Portrait and People Image Thread using Sony


*






Edited on Feb 02, 2024 at 05:16 PM · View previous versions



Jun 30, 2019 at 05:12 PM
AGeoJO
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p.15 #3 · Portrait and People Image Thread using Sony


numbertwo wrote:
I've been doing some more eye-af tests.

The adapted sigma 35 1.4 is the most accurate lens I have hitting on the eyeball in every situation. It's also a really sharp lens even at close distances. When I compared it agains the Samyang 35, the Samyang was a bit sharper for landscape, but the sigma was better at portrait/close distances.

Samyang 85 1.4 and Sony 50 1.8 focus more in the eye lashes when very close, and going a bit further, it's more on the nose or eyebrows most of the time. These two lenses are also not as sharp at close
...Show more

Thanks for doing the test. So, the AF performance of the Samyang 85mm is kind of sketchy, it seems. That could be the result of reverse engineering, I guess then.



_________________________________



On the last leg of my trip to Peru but this image of a local girl and her baby llama In Urubamba from a few days ago... Edited for the correct location.



© AGeoJO 2019



Edited on Jul 03, 2019 at 07:21 PM · View previous versions



Jul 01, 2019 at 11:07 AM
wittyphrase
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p.15 #4 · Portrait and People Image Thread using Sony


From a family portrait project I’ve finally decided to start after a year of saying I wanted to do it. A7III, Z55/1.8, 3 light setup.







Jul 02, 2019 at 07:49 AM
dhachey
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p.15 #5 · Portrait and People Image Thread using Sony


AGeoJO wrote:
Thanks for doing the test. So, the AF performance of the Samyang 85mm is kind of sketchy, it seems. That could be the result of reverse engineering, I guess then.

_________________________________

On the last leg of my trip to Peru but this image of a local girl and her baby lama in Ollantaytambo from a few days ago...


Beautiful portrait...



Jul 02, 2019 at 10:01 AM
numbertwo
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p.15 #6 · Portrait and People Image Thread using Sony




AGeoJO wrote:
Thanks for doing the test. So, the AF performance of the Samyang 85mm is kind of sketchy, it seems. That could be the result of reverse engineering, I guess then.

_________________________________

On the last leg of my trip to Peru but this image of a local girl and her baby lama in Ollantaytambo from a few days ago...


Nice picture, dark people is a weak point for Sony and that one doesn't look bad at all

Isn't the e mount supposed to be open? Why do samyang need to reverse engineer? Why do samyang lenses need a separate device to update lenses instead of doing it in body like Sony, sigma or tamron?

I've been doing some more tests today, infinity and daylight.
There are no visible differences between ibis on and off for fast shutter speeds maybe the accuracy might be just a bit better with ibis off, but it's not conclusive.
What I noticed is that the accuracy is really bad and inconsistent from picture to picture focusing in af-c at those distances near the edges, for both ibis on and off. It's much much better in af-s.
One of the things why I bought the a73 is for the impressive af-c capabilities and almost 100% coverage. Well, the accuracy in af-c leaves a lot to be desired and near the edges it's quite non existent. I think my old a7r2 was more accurate focusing, even if slower. And the Canon eos R when i tested it against the Sony, was 100% of the time accurate, and much faster in af-s.
I see more clear everyday that I will move to canon as soon as they sell a camera with ibis.



Jul 02, 2019 at 11:51 AM
numbertwo
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p.15 #7 · Portrait and People Image Thread using Sony




wittyphrase wrote:
From a family portrait project I’ve finally decided to start after a year of saying I wanted to do it. A7III, Z55/1.8, 3 light setup.


Your picture is beautiful, but your skin looks really bad to me.



Jul 02, 2019 at 11:51 AM
AGeoJO
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p.15 #8 · Portrait and People Image Thread using Sony


dhachey wrote:
Beautiful portrait...

Thank you very much!



numbertwo wrote:
Nice picture, dark people is a weak point for Sony and that one doesn't look bad at all

Isn't the e mount supposed to be open? Why do samyang need to reverse engineer? Why do samyang lenses need a separate device to update lenses instead of doing it in body like Sony, sigma or tamron?

I've been doing some more tests today, infinity and daylight.
There are no visible differences between ibis on and off for fast shutter speeds maybe the accuracy might be just a bit better with ibis off, but it's not conclusive.
What I noticed is that the accuracy
...Show more


Thank you!

The mount itself is indeed open source but the electronic and AF protocols are not. I believe but not 100% sure, Zeiss works together with Sony to manufacture the Batis line and as such, those lenses are 100% compatible on Sony E-mount bodies. The way the circumstances are right now, third party lens manufacturers reverse-engineer the AF protocol. And in general, those lenses are not as accurate and consistent in terms of AF performance. Some companies are better in doing so than others apparently and my impression is, Sigma tends to be ahead in that respect.

I just watched this clip that touched the subject although the lenses addressed there are not usually used for portraits:

.

It doesn't surprise me that, if you use a Canon OEM adapter with Canon EF lenses on the Canon R, you get a superb AF accuracy, which is better or more accurate than a Samyang FE mount lens on a Sony E-mount body. A better comparison would be a genuine Sony E-mount lens, like the GM 85mm f/1.4 or Sony FE 85mm f/1.8 on the Sony E-mount camera.



_________________________________________________



Anastasia has appeared on cover page of quite a few romance novels and here she is at lavender fields...



© AGeoJO 2019

Anastasia




Jul 03, 2019 at 11:21 AM
AGeoJO
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p.15 #9 · Portrait and People Image Thread using Sony


Bare-footed "Cinderella" but the clock hasn't struck midnight yet.... or something like that



© AGeoJO 2019




Jul 08, 2019 at 04:34 PM
RSSmith
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p.15 #10 · Portrait and People Image Thread using Sony


Shelby
a7RIII + FE85/1.8


20190706 015a by Ron Smith, on Flickr



Jul 09, 2019 at 12:32 AM
 


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numbertwo
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p.15 #11 · Portrait and People Image Thread using Sony


AGeoJO wrote:
Bare-footed "Cinderella" but the clock hasn't struck midnight yet.... or something like that


Wow, I love the shot, the blue hour with the warm lights and the model look amazing, the skin color is perfect to my eyes, but I think you should consider shooting at higher shutter speeds, the picture is a bit blurred and it makes me dizzy now watching it in the iPad (in the phone i didn’t notice actually).
I guess you’re shooting slow because you want a low ISO for the background and you trusted freezing enough the model with the flash, but in this case, as you’re balancing the background light to be very even (which I like), even the model is blurred



Jul 09, 2019 at 01:41 AM
AGeoJO
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p.15 #12 · Portrait and People Image Thread using Sony


numbertwo wrote:
Wow, I love the shot, the blue hour with the warm lights and the model look amazing, the skin color is perfect to my eyes, but I think you should consider shooting at higher shutter speeds, the picture is a bit blurred and it makes me dizzy now watching it in the iPad (in the phone i didn’t notice actually).
I guess you’re shooting slow because you want a low ISO for the background and you trusted freezing enough the model with the flash, but in this case, as you’re balancing the background light to be very even (which I like),
...Show more

Thank you, Juanma! I agree that the image I posted there was not critically "sharp". Here is the reason why. Most of my shooting, I used the Auto ISO mode and depending on the lens, I set the minimum shutter speed I feel comfortable with to freeze the camera movement AND the subject movement. I used my GM 24mm for that image and the minim shutter speed I set was 1/30sec. Now, for whatever reasons, the my fat fingers nudge the ISO dial away from the Auto ISO setting, making the setting to be ISO 50! Ouch! So, for a few shots I did it at ISO 50, resulting in a shutter speed of 1/5sec. The aperture setting of the lens was f/2.0 and the building was quite a way from the fountain. Actually, the blurriness you noticed of the building was due to the shallow depth-of-field and the slight fuzziness of the model is due to her movement as I asked her to make some poses to convey movement but to keep her head as stationary as possible. After a few shots, I realized my boo boo and changed the setting back to Auto ISO with 1/30 sec as the minimum.

I liked that particular image and I kept in the gallery and frankly, I selected that image without realizing that although I meant to post another image instead. I was out and about and took that from the "cloud storage" for posting, stripping the exif data. Well, here is another image that I took subsequently but this time using the correct setting and now the exif is included. I asked her to play with the two "side tails" of her dress to convey some movement there, making it less static.



© AGeoJO 2019

Now with Auto ISO setting LOL




Jul 09, 2019 at 10:38 AM
numbertwo
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p.15 #13 · Portrait and People Image Thread using Sony


AGeoJO wrote:
Thank you, Juanma! I agree that the image I posted there was not critically "sharp". Here is the reason why. Most of my shooting, I used the Auto ISO mode and depending on the lens, I set the minimum shutter speed I feel comfortable with to freeze the camera movement AND the subject movement. I used my GM 24mm for that image and the minim shutter speed I set was 1/30sec. Now, for whatever reasons, the my fat fingers nudge the ISO dial away from the Auto ISO setting, making the setting to be ISO 50! Ouch! So, for a
...Show more

I really love the colors you’re getting in those.
We have awesome cameras in low light, but we also want more and we try to save in shutter speed as much as I can to maximise IQ, I know the feeling haha.
Tonight we went for a pizza, and while waiting for the take away, I took a couple of pictures of my partner in front of a church (not so easy to see this kind in HK). Very low light (closed night) and only the horrible street lights, but working a bit with my presets, I think they don't look as bad as they could. They’re edited and sharpened for IG, so not really up to pixel level, but I think the global look is cute for a couple of fast snaps that is what they are. I’m posting them as in contrast to the new 35 1.8 just showed by Sony. I bought this one (Sigma Art) tired of waiting for a good small 35 1.8. Finally I’m happy i did, because the new one is not that small, it´s 1.8 of course, and i paid for this one (second handed) less than half the price of what the new one will cost...

Sin título by Juanma Herrera, en Flickr

Sin título by Juanma Herrera, en Flickr

Sin título by Juanma Herrera, en Flickr

Pd: also shot at aperture priority, f1.4, 1/30s min shutter speed, auto ISO, exposure compensation maybe 2/3eV.



Jul 09, 2019 at 12:06 PM
derKoekje
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p.15 #14 · Portrait and People Image Thread using Sony


Still have ways to go in my portrait game, but I'd say this is acceptable.



Tel Aviv garden by DerKoekje, on Flickr


Bright smile by DerKoekje, on Flickr



Jul 09, 2019 at 01:02 PM
AGeoJO
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p.15 #15 · Portrait and People Image Thread using Sony


numbertwo wrote:
I really love the colors you’re getting in those.
We have awesome cameras in low light, but we also want more and we try to save in shutter speed as much as I can to maximise IQ, I know the feeling haha.
Tonight we went for a pizza, and while waiting for the take away, I took a couple of pictures of my partner in front of a church (not so easy to see this kind in HK). Very low light (closed night) and only the horrible street lights, but working a bit with my presets, I think they don't look as
...Show more

Lovely images! I fully understand your situation, dealing with artificial light for those images. The presence of blue blotches, the result of our color correction for the skin tone is unavoidable.

I captured this guy on the street of Cuzco on very recent trip. Although I managed to get a decent rendition of his skin tone but unless I applied some fancy masking work in PS, I could not get get rid of the blue blotches from artificial light sources. And I didn’t bother for this image here...



derKoekje wrote:
Still have ways to go in my portrait game, but I'd say this is acceptable.

https://live.staticflickr.com/7807/46676333465_6fb7e53f81_h.jpg
Tel Aviv garden by DerKoekje, on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48242608081_d9d95a4154_h.jpg
Bright smile by DerKoekje, on Flickr


Your image are actually great but for my taste, they are simply too light and they look washed out, especially the first one. I am not sure whether you were shooting RAW or jpg but regardless, I do believe that your images will benefit greatly if you reduce the exposure. I hope you don’t mind my suggestion...



______________________________________________



The first image was captured during some street shooting in Cusco, Peru at night, well approximately at 10:00PM. Oddly, enough, the street was pretty much empty...I made a reference about shooting at night under artificial lighting conditions above.

The second one is of my grandnephew, James in Holland from 2 months ago when we were there...

Thank you for looking, everyone!



© AGeoJO 2019





© AGeoJO 2019

James at the piano...




Jul 09, 2019 at 09:00 PM
numbertwo
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p.15 #16 · Portrait and People Image Thread using Sony


AGeoJO wrote:
Lovely images! I fully understand your situation, dealing with artificial light for those images. The presence of blue blotches, the result of our color correction for the skin tone is unavoidable.

I captured this guy on the street of Cuzco on very recent trip. Although I managed to get a decent rendition of his skin tone but unless I applied some fancy masking work in PS, I could not get get rid of the blue blotches from artificial light sources. And I didn’t bother for this image here...


Your image are actually great but for my taste, they are simply too
...Show more

Definitely you have a very good eye for color in my view. I didn’t mess up with photoshop, just a couple of quickly edits over my preset in LR. I don’t care at all about the blue in the highlights, and actually I use to leave the scene warmer at night, keeping more of the warm light from the street lamps, but in this case I asked for his opinion, and he preferred the more “neutralised” look, so actually I did the white balance in another batch of pictures just before in front of the church, and the temperature was 2400K. I showed him how around 2850K looked, but he preferred the colder (finally I left it at 2500 haha).

About the pictures of derKoekje, I perfectly understand the situation. Asian people in general really love overexposed pictures, and their skin to be really white, almost like ghosts. When I first came to live in Hong Kong, I was really scared seeing all the wedding photographers here going for that super bright washed out look, I was finding all the pictures really horrible. Little by little, it’s like my brain got used to it, and in some circumstances I kind of like it, and sometimes I as well don’t look that much at the histogram and just try to make people “pretty” and get nice bright pictures. And of course the easies way to deal with skin retouching is just blowing it out, haha. So it’s interesting how Asian people in general love appearing super white (because it’s a cultural thing, if you’re very white it means you belong to a wealthy family, and if you’re dark you might be working outside in the field), while for us Europeans (or us citizens, among others), if you’re too pale it might mean you’re everyday at the office, and if you look tanned you had some time for good holidays at the beach, etc. As for myself, I am a bit reddish, and I like my skintone in the pictures looking a bit more towards the yellow than towards red, and a bit lighter than it really is, and very important, with enough contrast so the darker parts still have enough saturation. I think one of the mistakes Sony users commonly make is trying to recover too much dynamic range, just because we have awesome sensor and ¨we can¨, and actually the pictures, to my eye, look better with a bit more contrast, not fearing to blow out highlights or having shadows with little details (and the skin looking more contrasty and not HDR), but of course it’s just my aesthetic opinion, that doesn’t usually match the “perfect photo” technically speaking, but for me, photography should lean more towards art than technic.

For example, look at this picture from the wedding of a couple of friends two months ago

Sin título by Juanma Herrera, en Flickr

I don’t care about the blown out highlights, I just focused in the important part that is the people (and i preserved there what for me looks like a nice exposure and colors on them...)



Jul 09, 2019 at 11:46 PM
derKoekje
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p.15 #17 · Portrait and People Image Thread using Sony


AGeoJO wrote:
Your image are actually great but for my taste, they are simply too light and they look washed out, especially the first one. I am not sure whether you were shooting RAW or jpg but regardless, I do believe that your images will benefit greatly if you reduce the exposure. I hope you don’t mind my suggestion...



No worries, I can handle critique. They are stylistically bright, but I think I could have reduced exposure around the first image's nose. Thanks for the feedback!



Jul 10, 2019 at 07:16 AM
AGeoJO
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p.15 #18 · Portrait and People Image Thread using Sony


numbertwo wrote:
Definitely you have a very good eye for color in my view. I didn’t mess up with photoshop, just a couple of quickly edits over my preset in LR. I don’t care at all about the blue in the highlights, and actually I use to leave the scene warmer at night, keeping more of the warm light from the street lamps, but in this case I asked for his opinion, and he preferred the more “neutralised” look, so actually I did the white balance in another batch of pictures just before in front of the church, and the temperature was
...Show more

I agree that Asian women like their skin tone to be rendered on the light side. And absolutely, we need to focus on the people's rendition and the rest of the image will "take care" of itself. The skin rendition and exposure on your sample of your friend's weeding is right on the money, I would say.



derKoekje wrote:
No worries, I can handle critique. They are stylistically bright, but I think I could have reduced exposure around the first image's nose. Thanks for the feedback!


That's great and please post some more.



___________________________________________



Just a little about the shooting circumstances - there was a big window to the model's left/behind - two different lenses and one without and one with flash inside a light modifier. Thank you for looking.




© AGeoJO 2019





© AGeoJO 2019




Jul 10, 2019 at 10:20 AM
RSSmith
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p.15 #19 · Portrait and People Image Thread using Sony


a7RIII + FE55/1.8

20190720 094b by Ron Smith, on Flickr



Jul 21, 2019 at 02:51 PM
ftllens
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p.15 #20 · Portrait and People Image Thread using Sony


A few from Korea last year, all Sigma A 135

MOG05049 by Visual Novel, on Flickr

MOG06498 (2) by Visual Novel, on Flickr

MOG04020 (2) by Visual Novel, on Flickr



Jul 21, 2019 at 09:59 PM
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