j4nu wrote:
If that is indeed the case, I'll have to stick to Sony
If eye AF and AF-C consistency is important and you need (or already have) a Sony lens now then absolutely. The jury is still out on the Samyang v.4 firmware, I'm doing my own tests at the moment. Based on past experience it seems reasonable to expect workable fixes from Samyang fairly quickly. But again, if you need consistent AF right now, I'd stick with Sony or Zeiss.
Fred Miranda wrote:
My impression is that they are more similar than different. The GM has a cooler color temperature and it's a bit less corrected for spherical aberration which gives images a slight glow in expense of some micro-contrast. The Samyang is more contrasty and has more optical vignetting which is the give-away in this comparison, where bokeh balls are not as rounded towards the corners.
Thanks for posting such detailed tests, Samyang should sponsor the forum! The rendering is awfully close but the GM wins for those that need the absolute best.
Is everyone that is experiencing Eye-AF/CAF using firmware 3+ on their body? I'm reading the thread here and dpreview reporting Eye-AF becoming less reliable with the new firmware. HSS with Godox flashes also seems broken on the A7iii with the new firmware.
ryanli wrote:
If eye AF and AF-C consistency are important and you need (or already have) a Sony lens now then absolutely.
But still, you have to differentiate. 95% of the pictures I took were shot using the Eye-AF (and therefore AF-C). So using them for people didn't generate a problem at all with me (shooting at f1.4) in general. However, my "models" indeed were more or less static, just moving a bit (which means bending, one step back, forward, left, right etc.) or it was only me moving. The eye-af was sticking to the eye the same way my Batis did. As you might have seen I posted comparison shots between the Batis and the Saymang and some in which I used only the Samyang in eye-AF Mode. So far I couldn't really notice any difference between the Batis and the Saymang (except for the af noise). But as I said, I didn't shoot running kids or running dogs so I cannot comment on it. Just did the "regular" stuff I've been doing for years. There it hasn't made any difference so far.
I keep reading about AF issues but it does not match my experience with this lens. I'm shooting A7RIII (v3.01) + Samyang 85/1.4 (v4.0) and the vast majority of my shots are dead on (especially eye-AF). I only use AF-C and the AF adjustment using the dock was left to the default settings which was "0". (I did changed MF speed to slow but that should not affect AF accuracy)
I actually get better focus accuracy with the Samyang compared to the FE 85/1.4 GM and that's not the case with previous Samyang lenses like the 35/1.4 and 50/1.4.
Fred Miranda wrote:
I keep reading about AF issues but it does not match my experience with this lens. I'm shooting A7RIII (v3.01) + Samyang 85/1.4 (v4.0) and the vast majority of my shots are dead on (especially eye-AF). I only use AF-C and the AF adjustment using the dock was left to the default settings which was "0". (I did changed MF speed to slow but that should not affect AF accuracy)
I actually get better focus accuracy with the Samyang compared to the FE 85/1.4 GM and that's not the case with previous Samyang lenses like the 35/1.4 and 50/1.4.
Interesting and thanks for sharing. What kind of subjects are you shooting? have you noticed any change from previous versions to v.4?
I have stayed out of this discussion after my initial report but my experience echos Fred's . The lens in auto-focus (and eye focus) has been excellent since the version 3 update from Samyang.
It’s weird there are some people (me too of course) with af issues in af-c eye af,
- some with a73, but others with a7r3
- the latest updates might be the culprit, but for some people it’s working better than before
- could be unit dependant, as we’re talking here, some lenses focusing better than others, not just the firm of the lens or the camera, or even camera dependant, being the PDAF not well aligned or something.
How are you focusing? My settings use to be:
Wide area
Focus with shutter in af-c (also tested back button af)
Af priority
5 for locking priority (responsive, but I don’t think it makes a difference, tried 1 as well)
Face detection on of course.
Do you shoot portraits in vertical orientation? I find the accuracy worse with Sony cameras in vertical than landscape
I don’t know anymore what to blame, but I was having more accurate focus in af-c with my a7r2, and I won’t buy an a7r3.
p.31 #10 · Official: Samyang AF 85mm 1.4 FE ($699)
Nice verdict:
"I think we don't even have to write a very lengthy summary in this case. If a lens of an independent producer three times cheaper than its well-done brand name rival fares in most categories better than the said brand name lens, you really don't have to be verbose"
p.31 #11 · Official: Samyang AF 85mm 1.4 FE ($699)
zeitlos wrote:
Nice verdict:
"I think we don't even have to write a very lengthy summary in this case. If a lens of an independent producer three times cheaper than its well-done brand name rival fares in most categories better than the said brand name lens, you really don't have to be verbose"
(compared to the Sony 85/1.4 GM)
I don’t know if I can agree with this assessment . I mean I love the rendering of this lens from the samples I see, and it’s plenty sharp for sure, perhaps even sharper in the center, but mechanical vignetting leads to a pretty unique look that you really have to love. The bokeh is also busier compared to the GM. The GM is better corrected with less aberrations, and with less vignetting. This, along with its sluggish but reliable AF and better controls gives credence to it being the better portrait lens.
That being said, the differences are minor and I personally don’t think the GM is worth two and a half times the price of the Samyang, Sony’s lenses are notoriously expensive. But, I can very well imagine why people choose the GM over it.
p.31 #12 · Official: Samyang AF 85mm 1.4 FE ($699)
I have to say, after having had a few days with it now that this lens is really growing on me. Do I have some missed shots? Yes, here and there there are some full on unusable shots and I’m not certain why this is. If I am too close to the minimum focusing distance it will confirm focus even though focus has not been achieved. Learned my lesson on that one a few times. If the subject is moving toward the camera quickly, af-c can struggle more than it does for other lenses. But overall in normal conditions I am having far greater success than on the first day. In very (too) bright sunlight I am getting a few instances of a strange glowing effect around subjects which doesn’t happen consistently and I will have to investigate further.
One item I changed is turning on the electronic front curtain shutter, which I had off previously (different lens) in a test for reducing occasional blur. This seems to have helped, perhaps by syncing better with the AF pulsing or being more quick on the draw upon shutter press. I am not sure scientifically if this is the reason for my improved results but thought I would mention it.
In any case, after being very frustrated the first day, I have already decided that I really enjoy what the lens produces and the quirks to me are not a deal breaker vs what you get in return. I’m going to have to say I really enjoy it and would recommend giving it a try if you want something with character beyond the f/1.8 iterations.
p.s. “self portraits” in the first test were taken in a mirror, not by remote. Nor do I have the proper arm length to attempt selfies with an 85mm lens. Perhaps mirror shots mess with the AF algorithm but the results were poor using that method. In real life situations, much better.
p.31 #13 · Official: Samyang AF 85mm 1.4 FE ($699)
In regards to settings, numbertwo, mine are typically identical to what you listed with the exception of subject tracking which is at 3. Using wide lock on af to be more precise.
p.31 #14 · Official: Samyang AF 85mm 1.4 FE ($699)
abadger wrote:
I have to say, after having had a few days with it now that this lens is really growing on me. Do I have some missed shots? Yes, here and there there are some full on unusable shots and I’m not certain why this is. If I am too close to the minimum focusing distance it will confirm focus even though focus has not been achieved. Learned my lesson on that one a few times. If the subject is moving toward the camera quickly, af-c can struggle more than it does for other lenses. But overall in normal conditions I am having far greater success than on the first day. In very (too) bright sunlight I am getting a few instances of a strange glowing effect around subjects which doesn’t happen consistently and I will have to investigate further.
One item I changed is turning on the electronic front curtain shutter, which I had off previously (different lens) in a test for reducing occasional blur. This seems to have helped, perhaps by syncing better with the AF pulsing or being more quick on the draw upon shutter press. I am not sure scientifically if this is the reason for my improved results but thought I would mention it.
In any case, after being very frustrated the first day, I have already decided that I really enjoy what the lens produces and the quirks to me are not a deal breaker vs what you get in return. I’m going to have to say I really enjoy it and would recommend giving it a try if you want something with character beyond the f/1.8 iterations.
p.s. “self portraits” in the first test were taken in a mirror, not by remote. Nor do I have the proper arm length to attempt selfies with an 85mm lens. Perhaps mirror shots mess with the AF algorithm but the results were poor using that method. In real life situations, much better....Show more →
What you described about moving portraits (especially towards you) will also happen with the 85/1.4 GM as well. For that type of scenario, the FE 85/1.8 and 135/1.8 GM will give you more accuracy.
p.31 #15 · Official: Samyang AF 85mm 1.4 FE ($699)
Fred Miranda wrote:
What you described about moving portraits (especially towards you) will also happen with the 85/1.4 GM as well. For that type of scenario, the FE 85/1.8 and 135/1.8 GM will give you more accuracy.
Thanks, good to know that I haven't spent 2.5x on a GM then!
FWIW for me it is a issue only because it doesn't happen on the Sony Zeiss 55/1.8 (or for that matter any wider angle Sony or Zeiss I've tried) but I realise the job is harder on a 85/1.4 lens given the smaller DOF.
I wonder if focus speed comes into it - the Samyang is noticeably less snappy than say the 55/1.8 (and from what I've read the 85GM is not the fastest either, correct?). If the subject is moving faster than what the AF speed can catch up with then that might be an obvious explanation for why looming subjects don't track AF well.
p.31 #16 · Official: Samyang AF 85mm 1.4 FE ($699)
abadger wrote:
One item I changed is turning on the electronic front curtain shutter, which I had off previously (different lens) in a test for reducing occasional blur. This seems to have helped, perhaps by syncing better with the AF pulsing or being more quick on the draw upon shutter press. I am not sure scientifically if this is the reason for my improved results but thought I would mention it.
Interesting. I'll give it a try. (usually have it turned off as EFCS reportedly makes bokeh worse!)
Great weather this weekend with day trips to the farm and a botanical garden, so watch this space for running toddlers, running pigs, high contrast and backlit scenes and plenty of foliage..
p.31 #17 · Official: Samyang AF 85mm 1.4 FE ($699)
Kind of an odd result but didn't they have a very bad review of the GM?
Well I do know that when tested with the last GM I owned none of the 3 copies I tested of the Samyang were sharper in the center or most part of the frames except the bottom part where my GM kept losing resolution for some reason. The Samyang resolution was still very good though. And of course neither was close to the Sigma I ended up keeping.
Bokeh wise, I think my sample images speak for themselves. The Samyang Is surely smoother than the Batis or Sony 1.8 but the GM and Art have smoother bokeh rendering.
I really wanted to keep that lens and use the money saved towards the 135mm GM but in the end the AF consistency, sharpness across the frame and bokeh rendering were not enough to my liking to make the change.
Of course that doesn't make it a bad lens, just one that did not fit my needs
derKoekje wrote:
I don’t know if I can agree with this assessment . I mean I love the rendering of this lens from the samples I see, and it’s plenty sharp for sure, perhaps even sharper in the center, but mechanical vignetting leads to a pretty unique look that you really have to love. The bokeh is also busier compared to the GM. The GM is better corrected with less aberrations, and with less vignetting. This, along with its sluggish but reliable AF and better controls gives credence to it being the better portrait lens.
That being said, the differences are minor and I personally don’t think the GM is worth two and a half times the price of the Samyang, Sony’s lenses are notoriously expensive. But, I can very well imagine why people choose the GM over it. ...Show more →
p.31 #18 · Official: Samyang AF 85mm 1.4 FE ($699)
abadger wrote:
In regards to settings, numbertwo, mine are typically identical to what you listed with the exception of subject tracking which is at 3. Using wide lock on af to be more precise.
Thank you for sharing your settings.
It's weird I don't usually try the lock on areas (maybe because I've always had adapted lenses and they dont work, and before I used to have an a7r2 that wasn't as good), but I just took some shots to test it out.
With wide area lock on and eye af in af-c, the camera is most of the time recognising the whole face or even face + body. Then, depending on the light/contrast, some of them are actually focused on the eye very accurately, but some are really way out. I've tested silent shutter, first curtain and fully mechanical, at 1/250s and around 160-200 iso (exposure comp at 0) with light window. I've tried changing between 1 and 5 for stickiness, but not appreciable difference I would say, although more scientific tests would be necessary. what I've realised is that with that settings, using a separate button for eye af is extremely accurate and suddenly the hit ratio is so much better, I can't believe that a sharp eye at 1.4 perfectly nailed, not these slightly front focus I used to have.
So my guess is, when the light is not absolutely perfect and your subject doesn't have big bright eyes, in the latest firmware the camera just attempt to focus in other areas of the face as it's "easier and faster", whereas keeping the separate eye af button seems to be more consistent.
I'll keep testing.
Pd: I'm changing my button Configuration in the camera all the time. One button to quickly switch between flexible spot to wide, one button to quickly switch between af-s and af-c, one button for eye-af, it's crazy haha.
