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Archive 2019M-Mount Lenses on Nikon Z7 and Panasonic S1R MLC
p.1 #1M-Mount Lenses on Nikon Z7 and Panasonic S1R MLC
More reviews are showing up about both Nikon Z and Panasonic S systems, but they all use designated lenses specifically made for this camera mount. It looks like that both MLCs are potentially beneficial to be used with rangefinder lenses due to thinner sensor cover glass. I am interested to see example photos taken with either or both cameras in combination with adapted M-mount rangefinder lenses - especially the ones with the higher resolution sensors. Great if the performance is shown with M-lenses and focal lengths < 50 mm.
Feb 09, 2019 at 10:47 AM
p.1 #2M-Mount Lenses on Nikon Z7 and Panasonic S1R MLC
You just have to wait S’s results. There is rumors that Leica Q2 is coming with 47M sensor. It is the same 47M as S1R. I hope/think it will be used on SL2 as well.
Back to the point. This really make me predict Panasonic S will work with M glasses. There seems a stronger bond between simple L alliance than my original thought now. It make no sense Leica redesign this sensor. Working with bigger seller like Panasonic will significantly reduce their sensor raw cost. SL2 might be cheaper than SL.
Old SL is not perfect with difficult M glass but better than Sony and I’d guess about the same as Z based my experience. I am a little concerned that S1/R has no BSI sensor that might have color shading problem original A7 had. Hopefully Leica and Panasonic will share the same sensor.
Back to the point. This really make me predict Panasonic S will work with M glasses. There seems a stronger bond between simple L alliance than my original thought now. It make no sense Leica redesign this sensor. Working with bigger seller like Panasonic will significantly reduce their sensor raw cost. SL2 might be cheaper than SL.
Old SL is not perfect with difficult M glass but better than Sony and I’d guess about the same as Z based my experience. I am a little concerned that S1/R has no BSI sensor that might have color shading problem original A7 had. Hopefully Leica and Panasonic will share the same sensor.
Feb 09, 2019 at 12:37 PM
p.1 #3M-Mount Lenses on Nikon Z7 and Panasonic S1R MLC
zhangyue wrote:
You just have to wait S’s results. There is rumors that Leica Q2 is coming with 47M sensor. It is the same 47M as S1R. I hope/think it will be used on SL2 as well.
Back to the point. This really make me predict Panasonic S will work with M glasses. There seems a stronger bond between simple L alliance than my original thought now. It make no sense Leica redesign this sensor. Working with bigger seller like Panasonic will significantly reduce their sensor raw cost. SL2 might be cheaper than SL.
Old SL is not perfect with difficult M...Show more →
I agree with you - purpose of this thread I started is to have it here (hopefully) all under one roof so to speak when people start testing these cameras with M-lenses. From the beginning when the Panasonic/Sigma/Leica alliance was announced, I foresaw that Leica's future MLC way will be more Panasonic centered - not sure about the future of the SL itself. I am sure we will be seeing some slight(?) differences between cameras with the same mounted M lens - but I suspect the overall differences will be smaller than with the Sony FF sensors which used a quite thick cover glass. This was the main debit for several wider M lenses to work well especially on high res Sony FF sensors.
You just have to wait S’s results. There is rumors that Leica Q2 is coming with 47M sensor. It is the same 47M as S1R. I hope/think it will be used on SL2 as well.
Back to the point. This really make me predict Panasonic S will work with M glasses. There seems a stronger bond between simple L alliance than my original thought now. It make no sense Leica redesign this sensor. Working with bigger seller like Panasonic will significantly reduce their sensor raw cost. SL2 might be cheaper than SL.
Old SL is not perfect with difficult M...Show more →
I agree with you - purpose of this thread I started is to have it here (hopefully) all under one roof so to speak when people start testing these cameras with M-lenses. From the beginning when the Panasonic/Sigma/Leica alliance was announced, I foresaw that Leica's future MLC way will be more Panasonic centered - not sure about the future of the SL itself. I am sure we will be seeing some slight(?) differences between cameras with the same mounted M lens - but I suspect the overall differences will be smaller than with the Sony FF sensors which used a quite thick cover glass. This was the main debit for several wider M lenses to work well especially on high res Sony FF sensors.
Feb 09, 2019 at 01:59 PM
p.1 #4M-Mount Lenses on Nikon Z7 and Panasonic S1R MLC
Given that it looks like the Q2 will be using the new Panasonic FF sensor, I think this, or a slightly modified version of it will be in an SL2. The SL2 is almost certain to work very well with M lenses (I think Leica is committed to that). Now, Leica may have to tweak that sensor for it to work optimally with M lenses - I'm not technically minded enough to understand what they might do, but my guess would be one of, or a mixture of, using slightly thinner cover-glass or adding micro lenses to make that happen. Unless, of course, they have worked all this out in advance so that Leica L lenses and Panasonic L lenses require exactly the same cover-glass and micro lenses so that their lenses are perfectly and optimally interchangeable, which would of course mean that M lenses will work just as well on the Panasonics as they will do on the SL2. Who knows, the new Leica SL2 may well just be a rebadged Panasonic S1r with the Leica red dot and tax. It would save Leica a lot of dosh.
Feb 09, 2019 at 05:23 PM
p.1 #5M-Mount Lenses on Nikon Z7 and Panasonic S1R MLC
I posted in a thread in this section the results of my testing of my M glass on my Z7 and M240. Works better on the Leica.
Thing is Leica M glass works better on the M cameras than on the Leica SL. i don't see this changing with the new Panasonic or the rebadged new SL as they want you to buy native lenses which are designed for that sensor and that mount. But can accomodate M glass.
Thing is Leica M glass works better on the M cameras than on the Leica SL. i don't see this changing with the new Panasonic or the rebadged new SL as they want you to buy native lenses which are designed for that sensor and that mount. But can accomodate M glass.
Feb 09, 2019 at 05:37 PM
p.1 #6M-Mount Lenses on Nikon Z7 and Panasonic S1R MLC
Could you link to that thread and your test? I'd be very interested to know which lenses were tested, and what exactly you mean by 'better' - was it across the midfield of theimage, in the corners or was it even in the centre? The Z7 is a 45mp camera, so it would surprise me that images were better on the 24 mp M240 even in the centre.
Feb 09, 2019 at 06:21 PM
p.1 #7M-Mount Lenses on Nikon Z7 and Panasonic S1R MLC
Desmolicious wrote:
I posted in a thread in this section the results of my testing of my M glass on my Z7 and M240. Works better on the Leica.
Thing is Leica M glass works better on the M cameras than on the Leica SL. i don't see this changing with the new Panasonic or the rebadged new SL as they want you to buy native lenses which are designed for that sensor and that mount. But can accomodate M glass.
Honestly, I purposely left out in the title and in the description comparisons to Leica M digital cameras because I am afraid that it would lead to some brand-defensive Leica posts. Without question Leica is optimizing their digital cameras to be used with their lenses in the same environment to the best as any other brand does the same. Question is how close the image quality gets when NOT using a digital Leica camera with Leica M lenses - obviously opinions will differ here how much compromise every user is willing to take. There will never be an agreement, but what I want to see are facts - posts of photos which use either the Nikon or the Panasonic camera, or better comparing both. I also narrowed it down to the high res sensor cameras because issues were encountered more often in the past with high res sensors with wide rangefinder lenses.
Things would get even further convoluted when comparing high res with lower res FF sensors as pointed out above. Leica with 24 MP sensors have an easier time to succeed here in avoiding potential corner issues, color fringing etc. If Leica releases at some point some anticipated > 42 MP FF M or SL camera, comparisons with it are more than welcome because this would set a benchmark to compare against.
I posted in a thread in this section the results of my testing of my M glass on my Z7 and M240. Works better on the Leica.
Thing is Leica M glass works better on the M cameras than on the Leica SL. i don't see this changing with the new Panasonic or the rebadged new SL as they want you to buy native lenses which are designed for that sensor and that mount. But can accomodate M glass.
Honestly, I purposely left out in the title and in the description comparisons to Leica M digital cameras because I am afraid that it would lead to some brand-defensive Leica posts. Without question Leica is optimizing their digital cameras to be used with their lenses in the same environment to the best as any other brand does the same. Question is how close the image quality gets when NOT using a digital Leica camera with Leica M lenses - obviously opinions will differ here how much compromise every user is willing to take. There will never be an agreement, but what I want to see are facts - posts of photos which use either the Nikon or the Panasonic camera, or better comparing both. I also narrowed it down to the high res sensor cameras because issues were encountered more often in the past with high res sensors with wide rangefinder lenses.
Things would get even further convoluted when comparing high res with lower res FF sensors as pointed out above. Leica with 24 MP sensors have an easier time to succeed here in avoiding potential corner issues, color fringing etc. If Leica releases at some point some anticipated > 42 MP FF M or SL camera, comparisons with it are more than welcome because this would set a benchmark to compare against.
Feb 09, 2019 at 07:08 PM
p.1 #8M-Mount Lenses on Nikon Z7 and Panasonic S1R MLC
My brief tests are here. I was hoping that I could replace my M with my Z, but I'll be keeping both as the Z is awesome with my Sigma Art glass (better than my now sold D850), while the M is better with M glass.
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1559075/22
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1559075/22
Feb 09, 2019 at 07:46 PM
p.1 #9M-Mount Lenses on Nikon Z7 and Panasonic S1R MLC
retrofocus wrote:
...
I also narrowed it down to the high res sensor cameras because issues were encountered more often in the past with high res sensors with wide rangefinder lenses.
Things would get even further convoluted when comparing high res with lower res FF sensors as pointed out above. Leica with 24 MP sensors have an easier time to succeed here in avoiding potential corner issues, color fringing etc. ...
One thing to keep in mind with all these considerations, at least for now, is that the M/MP/M10 etc. use crop sensors. The M is 5952px x 3976px (35.8mm x 23.9mm) so there is an effective edge crop of 24px on each side. I have and use an M (240).
From my own usage, with the same lenses on M, Z7 and an a7ii, I would say that the Z7 matches the output of the M, edge to edge - However (big however), the higher resolution is less forgiving of miss-focus and sloppy technique. One can get away with a slight miss-focus on the lower resolution M or a7ii that would be quite noticeable with 46mp Z7. Also, issues like a slightly decentered lens that isn't that noticeable on 24mp really stands out with 46mp. One approach is to compare by re-sampling the higher resolution down to 24mp, at which point I feel the Z7 can best the M, lens for lens and this is due to the D850 grade sensor in the Z7 - imho. I didn't get the Z7 for use with M glass exclusively but the bonus has turned out to be that I can essentially get D850 level output from M glass now.
I would expect the S1/S1R to play well with M glass, at least as well as the four-year-old SL and perhaps a bit better if the Leica sensor has been significantly upgraded. However, from the S1 samples I've seen so far, I am not expecting the S1R to have the same quality output as the Z7 (D850). But, we'll see.
The only caveat I would add is that one's perspective does benefit from shooting M glass on an M. At least to be able to have a point of reference...
...
I also narrowed it down to the high res sensor cameras because issues were encountered more often in the past with high res sensors with wide rangefinder lenses.
Things would get even further convoluted when comparing high res with lower res FF sensors as pointed out above. Leica with 24 MP sensors have an easier time to succeed here in avoiding potential corner issues, color fringing etc. ...
One thing to keep in mind with all these considerations, at least for now, is that the M/MP/M10 etc. use crop sensors. The M is 5952px x 3976px (35.8mm x 23.9mm) so there is an effective edge crop of 24px on each side. I have and use an M (240).
From my own usage, with the same lenses on M, Z7 and an a7ii, I would say that the Z7 matches the output of the M, edge to edge - However (big however), the higher resolution is less forgiving of miss-focus and sloppy technique. One can get away with a slight miss-focus on the lower resolution M or a7ii that would be quite noticeable with 46mp Z7. Also, issues like a slightly decentered lens that isn't that noticeable on 24mp really stands out with 46mp. One approach is to compare by re-sampling the higher resolution down to 24mp, at which point I feel the Z7 can best the M, lens for lens and this is due to the D850 grade sensor in the Z7 - imho. I didn't get the Z7 for use with M glass exclusively but the bonus has turned out to be that I can essentially get D850 level output from M glass now.
I would expect the S1/S1R to play well with M glass, at least as well as the four-year-old SL and perhaps a bit better if the Leica sensor has been significantly upgraded. However, from the S1 samples I've seen so far, I am not expecting the S1R to have the same quality output as the Z7 (D850). But, we'll see.
The only caveat I would add is that one's perspective does benefit from shooting M glass on an M. At least to be able to have a point of reference...
Feb 09, 2019 at 11:29 PM
p.1 #10M-Mount Lenses on Nikon Z7 and Panasonic S1R MLC
mapgraphs wrote:
I also narrowed it down to the high res sensor cameras because issues were encountered more often in the past with high res sensors with wide rangefinder lenses.
Things would get even further convoluted when comparing high res with lower res FF sensors as pointed out above. Leica with 24 MP sensors have an easier time to succeed here in avoiding potential corner issues, color fringing etc. ...One thing to keep in mind with all these considerations, at least for now, is that the M/MP/M10 etc. use crop sensors. The M is 5952px x 3976px (35.8mm x 23.9mm) so there is an effective edge crop of 24px on each side. I have and use an M (240).
From my own usage, with the same lenses on M, Z7 and an a7ii, I would say that the Z7 matches the output of the M, edge to edge - However (big however), the higher resolution is less forgiving of miss-focus and sloppy technique. One can get away with a slight...Show more →
The only caveat I would add is that one's perspective does benefit from shooting M glass on an M. At least to be able to have a point of reference...
I am not a believer that it is always best to stay in the same brand environment. This was certainly true with DSLRs where it was much harder to use lenses with a different mount on a DSLR. I have read all kind of excuses in the past why M lenses would only perform best with M cameras - which I don't agree with from my personal experience (I used Leica M lenses several years before I even got my first M film camera!). This said, as I pointed out in my earlier comment, if Leica had a M or MLC camera with > 42 MP FF sensor, yes, we should use this as baseline to compare with. But since this is not available (yet)....let's see how those M lenses perform on high MP FF sensors from other brands!
Can you please share some photos which you took with the Z7 and M lenses?
retrofocus wrote
...I also narrowed it down to the high res sensor cameras because issues were encountered more often in the past with high res sensors with wide rangefinder lenses.
Things would get even further convoluted when comparing high res with lower res FF sensors as pointed out above. Leica with 24 MP sensors have an easier time to succeed here in avoiding potential corner issues, color fringing etc. ...
From my own usage, with the same lenses on M, Z7 and an a7ii, I would say that the Z7 matches the output of the M, edge to edge - However (big however), the higher resolution is less forgiving of miss-focus and sloppy technique. One can get away with a slight...Show more →
The only caveat I would add is that one's perspective does benefit from shooting M glass on an M. At least to be able to have a point of reference...
I am not a believer that it is always best to stay in the same brand environment. This was certainly true with DSLRs where it was much harder to use lenses with a different mount on a DSLR. I have read all kind of excuses in the past why M lenses would only perform best with M cameras - which I don't agree with from my personal experience (I used Leica M lenses several years before I even got my first M film camera!). This said, as I pointed out in my earlier comment, if Leica had a M or MLC camera with > 42 MP FF sensor, yes, we should use this as baseline to compare with. But since this is not available (yet)....let's see how those M lenses perform on high MP FF sensors from other brands!
Can you please share some photos which you took with the Z7 and M lenses?
Feb 10, 2019 at 08:39 AM
p.1 #11M-Mount Lenses on Nikon Z7 and Panasonic S1R MLC
retrofocus wrote:
...
Can you please share some photos which you took with the Z7 and M lenses?
Please peruse Michael's Alt Z7 thread. You'll find some excellent examples from Michael and others. I've added some as time allows. Personally, I'm only interested in use-case examples. I view M glass as mostly designed for traditional reportage use.
...
Can you please share some photos which you took with the Z7 and M lenses?
Please peruse Michael's Alt Z7 thread. You'll find some excellent examples from Michael and others. I've added some as time allows. Personally, I'm only interested in use-case examples. I view M glass as mostly designed for traditional reportage use.
Feb 10, 2019 at 09:27 AM
p.1 #12M-Mount Lenses on Nikon Z7 and Panasonic S1R MLC
Desmolicious wrote:
My brief tests are here. I was hoping that I could replace my M with my Z, but I'll be keeping both as the Z is awesome with my Sigma Art glass (better than my now sold D850), while the M is better with M glass.
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1559075/22
While I think that is true for the wides you tested, Leica M 18 f/3.8, Leica M 28 f/2.8, CV 21 f/4, CV 25 f/4, and to a lesser extent the Leica M 24 f/3.8, that we see clear degraded performance on the Nikon Z those aren't any of the lenses that faired best on the Sony cameras. In fact all of these lenses did horribly on the Sony camera and look a lot better on the Z and all but the Leica M 18 f/3.8 and Leica M 24 f/3.8 did quite poorly on even the Leica SL. If you want small symmetrical wides, then you definitely want an M camera. Keep in mind, however, a number of lenses do a lot better than these on the Sony cameras and the Leica SL and may perform much better on the Nikon Z. I am waiting to see performance of the Leica M 21 f/3.4 (which I expect to be better on the Leica M, but the difference to be even smaller than the Leica M 24 f/3.8). At the wide end there is also the WATE, which actually performs quite well with the Sony cameras and I would not be surprised if the Leica M shows only a small advantage over the Nikon Z's with this lens or perhaps no advantage at all. There is also the Leica M 21, 24, & 28 luxes, which all do fairly well on the Sony cameras and likely would perform pretty well on the Nikon Zs. I have less basis to predict the 35mm lenses, but I would love to see a range of those as well. The 35 lux Asph does quite poorly on the Sony, but how does it do on the Nikon Z, and some older lenses do well as does the CV 35 f/1.2 on the Sony. How do those and the CV 35 f/1.7 and Zeiss ZM 35 f/1.4 do on the Nikon Z? There is lots still to learn. At 50mm the 50 cron AA does beautifully on the Sony's and I would be surprised if it didn't perform even better on the Nikon Zs. From your 50 lux Asph picks there is probably some degradation for landscapes, but did you compare it tot he M240? I couldn't find those comparisons. That to me is an interesting and important lens and I would love to see the comparison there. On Sony to 50 lux Asph did not do well at all, and my guess is that its performance is degraded on the Nikon Zs, but not nearly as much as it is on the Sony's. Finally, I expect anything over 50mm to do quite well on the Nikon Zs with little to no reduction in performance, that was pretty much true on the Sony's so I expect it to be even more true on the Nikon Zs.
Suffice it to say for those who want to do so, I am fairly confident that someone could put together a set of Leica M mount lenses that have very little to no degraded performance. The choice of lenses, would of course be a lot more limited than it would be using a Leica M camera, but the devil is in the details here and I don't think anything as simple as the Leica M is better if you want to shoot Leica M lenses is helpful. Yes, for some lenses the Leica M is way better. For others it probably isn't any advantage at all. I am eager to see more tests and I thank retrofocus for starting this thread.
My brief tests are here. I was hoping that I could replace my M with my Z, but I'll be keeping both as the Z is awesome with my Sigma Art glass (better than my now sold D850), while the M is better with M glass.
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1559075/22
While I think that is true for the wides you tested, Leica M 18 f/3.8, Leica M 28 f/2.8, CV 21 f/4, CV 25 f/4, and to a lesser extent the Leica M 24 f/3.8, that we see clear degraded performance on the Nikon Z those aren't any of the lenses that faired best on the Sony cameras. In fact all of these lenses did horribly on the Sony camera and look a lot better on the Z and all but the Leica M 18 f/3.8 and Leica M 24 f/3.8 did quite poorly on even the Leica SL. If you want small symmetrical wides, then you definitely want an M camera. Keep in mind, however, a number of lenses do a lot better than these on the Sony cameras and the Leica SL and may perform much better on the Nikon Z. I am waiting to see performance of the Leica M 21 f/3.4 (which I expect to be better on the Leica M, but the difference to be even smaller than the Leica M 24 f/3.8). At the wide end there is also the WATE, which actually performs quite well with the Sony cameras and I would not be surprised if the Leica M shows only a small advantage over the Nikon Z's with this lens or perhaps no advantage at all. There is also the Leica M 21, 24, & 28 luxes, which all do fairly well on the Sony cameras and likely would perform pretty well on the Nikon Zs. I have less basis to predict the 35mm lenses, but I would love to see a range of those as well. The 35 lux Asph does quite poorly on the Sony, but how does it do on the Nikon Z, and some older lenses do well as does the CV 35 f/1.2 on the Sony. How do those and the CV 35 f/1.7 and Zeiss ZM 35 f/1.4 do on the Nikon Z? There is lots still to learn. At 50mm the 50 cron AA does beautifully on the Sony's and I would be surprised if it didn't perform even better on the Nikon Zs. From your 50 lux Asph picks there is probably some degradation for landscapes, but did you compare it tot he M240? I couldn't find those comparisons. That to me is an interesting and important lens and I would love to see the comparison there. On Sony to 50 lux Asph did not do well at all, and my guess is that its performance is degraded on the Nikon Zs, but not nearly as much as it is on the Sony's. Finally, I expect anything over 50mm to do quite well on the Nikon Zs with little to no reduction in performance, that was pretty much true on the Sony's so I expect it to be even more true on the Nikon Zs.
Suffice it to say for those who want to do so, I am fairly confident that someone could put together a set of Leica M mount lenses that have very little to no degraded performance. The choice of lenses, would of course be a lot more limited than it would be using a Leica M camera, but the devil is in the details here and I don't think anything as simple as the Leica M is better if you want to shoot Leica M lenses is helpful. Yes, for some lenses the Leica M is way better. For others it probably isn't any advantage at all. I am eager to see more tests and I thank retrofocus for starting this thread.
Feb 10, 2019 at 12:52 PM
p.1 #13M-Mount Lenses on Nikon Z7 and Panasonic S1R MLC
Steve Spencer wrote:
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1559075/22While I think that is true for the wides you tested, Leica M 18 f/3.8, Leica M 28 f/2.8, CV 21 f/4, CV 25 f/4, and to a lesser extent the Leica M 24 f/3.8, that we see clear degraded performance on the Nikon Z those aren't any of the lenses that faired best on the Sony cameras. In fact all of these lenses did horribly on the Sony camera and look a lot better on the Z and all but the Leica M 18 f/3.8 and Leica M 24 f/3.8 did quite poorly on even the Leica SL....Show more →
+1. It probably comes down to similar lens issues seen already with M-lenses on Sony sensors before - my rule of thumb from personal experience is to stay away from Leica f/2 ASPH lenses since they only perform well on Leica M cameras (different story for f/1.4 ASPH lenses with wider pupil angle, but this is also a different price class). I am personally more interested to see older M lenses used - meaning maybe not the latest lens iteration - on the new high res sensors. Or in other words: getting the best image quality out of the combination of best sensors with very good M glass for the best price! But it is open for tests with all kind of M lenses!
Desmolicious wrote
My brief tests are here. I was hoping that I could replace my M with my Z, but I'll be keeping both as the Z is awesome with my Sigma Art glass (better than my now sold D850), while the M is better with M glass.https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1559075/22
+1. It probably comes down to similar lens issues seen already with M-lenses on Sony sensors before - my rule of thumb from personal experience is to stay away from Leica f/2 ASPH lenses since they only perform well on Leica M cameras (different story for f/1.4 ASPH lenses with wider pupil angle, but this is also a different price class). I am personally more interested to see older M lenses used - meaning maybe not the latest lens iteration - on the new high res sensors. Or in other words: getting the best image quality out of the combination of best sensors with very good M glass for the best price! But it is open for tests with all kind of M lenses!
Feb 10, 2019 at 01:27 PM
p.1 #14M-Mount Lenses on Nikon Z7 and Panasonic S1R MLC
I understand that some Leica lenses would work better on non Leica cameras than other ones, but I tested with some of what I have, including the 50 Asph, and every single one of them was better on my Leica M than my Z7.
As such, I am going to stick with Leica for Leica glass, as I have no intention of unloading them to replace them with specific Leica lenses that work better on a Nikon!
I really wanted them to work perfectly on my Z7, as then I could have reduced my camera body count, but this is not to be. What is nice is the Z7 with M adapter and M lenses, is much smaller than the equivalent focal length slr lenses with matching adapter.
As such, I am going to stick with Leica for Leica glass, as I have no intention of unloading them to replace them with specific Leica lenses that work better on a Nikon!
I really wanted them to work perfectly on my Z7, as then I could have reduced my camera body count, but this is not to be. What is nice is the Z7 with M adapter and M lenses, is much smaller than the equivalent focal length slr lenses with matching adapter.
Feb 10, 2019 at 01:45 PM
p.1 #15M-Mount Lenses on Nikon Z7 and Panasonic S1R MLC
Steve Spencer wrote:
...
... I am waiting to see performance of the Leica M 21 f/3.4 (which I expect to be better on the Leica M, but the difference to be even smaller than the Leica M 24 f/3.8).
...
Michael's samples with the SEM 21 on the Z7: https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1559075/34#14746342
There are more on the next page.
...
... I am waiting to see performance of the Leica M 21 f/3.4 (which I expect to be better on the Leica M, but the difference to be even smaller than the Leica M 24 f/3.8).
...
Michael's samples with the SEM 21 on the Z7: https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1559075/34#14746342
There are more on the next page.
Feb 10, 2019 at 05:41 PM
p.1 #16M-Mount Lenses on Nikon Z7 and Panasonic S1R MLC
Steve Spencer has expressed the matter extremely thoroughly and well.
I understood that the 35/1.4 asph actually worked well on the Sony other than in the corners, being excellent in the centre wide open (which is all I would need) and getting better with each stop down over the whole of the image. I would love to see a thorough test of this on the Nikon Z7.
I understood that the 35/1.4 asph actually worked well on the Sony other than in the corners, being excellent in the centre wide open (which is all I would need) and getting better with each stop down over the whole of the image. I would love to see a thorough test of this on the Nikon Z7.
Feb 11, 2019 at 07:08 AM
p.1 #17M-Mount Lenses on Nikon Z7 and Panasonic S1R MLC
mapgraphs wrote:
... I am waiting to see performance of the Leica M 21 f/3.4 (which I expect to be better on the Leica M, but the difference to be even smaller than the Leica M 24 f/3.8).
...Michael's samples with the SEM 21 on the Z7: https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1559075/34#14746342
There are more on the next page.
I saw that, and the results looked quite good. I would love to see side by side comparisons with the M10 or another M digital camera, however. I expect the lens is even better on an M camera, but I would love to see the shots. It did well enough in Michael's shots that I am not sure it will do better on the M camera, but I still think it probably will.
Steve Spencer wrote
...... I am waiting to see performance of the Leica M 21 f/3.4 (which I expect to be better on the Leica M, but the difference to be even smaller than the Leica M 24 f/3.8).
...
There are more on the next page.
I saw that, and the results looked quite good. I would love to see side by side comparisons with the M10 or another M digital camera, however. I expect the lens is even better on an M camera, but I would love to see the shots. It did well enough in Michael's shots that I am not sure it will do better on the M camera, but I still think it probably will.
Feb 11, 2019 at 08:01 AM
p.1 #18M-Mount Lenses on Nikon Z7 and Panasonic S1R MLC
Desmolicious wrote:
I understand that some Leica lenses would work better on non Leica cameras than other ones, but I tested with some of what I have, including the 50 Asph, and every single one of them was better on my Leica M than my Z7.
As such, I am going to stick with Leica for Leica glass, as I have no intention of unloading them to replace them with specific Leica lenses that work better on a Nikon!
I really wanted them to work perfectly on my Z7, as then I could have reduced my camera body count, but this is not to...Show more →
Do you have any side by side comparison with the M240 and the 50 lux Asph? All I saw were some samples with the 50 lux Asph not any comparisons, but perhaps I missed it.
I understand that some Leica lenses would work better on non Leica cameras than other ones, but I tested with some of what I have, including the 50 Asph, and every single one of them was better on my Leica M than my Z7.
As such, I am going to stick with Leica for Leica glass, as I have no intention of unloading them to replace them with specific Leica lenses that work better on a Nikon!
I really wanted them to work perfectly on my Z7, as then I could have reduced my camera body count, but this is not to...Show more →
Do you have any side by side comparison with the M240 and the 50 lux Asph? All I saw were some samples with the 50 lux Asph not any comparisons, but perhaps I missed it.
Feb 11, 2019 at 08:02 AM
p.1 #19M-Mount Lenses on Nikon Z7 and Panasonic S1R MLC
I will do another test once I have Panasonic. This time I will try to do them together S1, Z7 and M with two M lenses 21SEM and 50lux only. (others are more obvious without test) I haven't shimmed my new Kipon adapter yet and plan to do these test one and single more time as they are time consuming
Having said that, I think per my experience with Z and Leica M glass. I think M glass on Z definitely benefit from extra LR sharpening more than on native M body. I feel for difficult lens like 21SEM, even if we down size to 24M, M is still slightly ahead on corner. This is my impression during editing and eye ball the results and I am prepared to be wrong when I set these up correctly later
However, this is a trade off that anyone need think about if they decide use M glass on any other system. I am totally happy with 35mm f1.7VC and 15mm VC on Z, most 50mm summicron and so is 75mmlux 90mmAPO etc....I am also satisfied with 21SEM (f8~f11 landscape) and 50lux (f1.4 portrait) on Z for the way I use them most of time, and I would also say they are perfect fine for my use even I shoot 21SEM WO or 50lux landscape. There always are better but sometimes we just have to be practical.
The size benefit and shooting enjoyment M glass bring is huge.
Now, In this case about Panasonic S, S is indeed big and huge but for a reason. Its a power hungry and performance oriented system, you need beef battery and body for heat dissipation and of course for ergonomics Pro after for big AF glasses. For my case, I plan mostly use manual glass on it, the total package size and weight is very manageable. It can't replace Nikon Z at least for now, the Z glass are too good if you need AF. I don't have much complain at all for Z system. it just works. I would say it again, S is for heart but Z is for brain.
S was the one I though Nikon would have introduced before Z show up. However, I have to say I agree with Nikon's decision for Z consider its superb build and size. f1.8 Prime are the ones most photographers (who know what they are doing) are after, high quality with piratical size speed and price.
Choices are good. I am glad to have what we have now.
Having said that, I think per my experience with Z and Leica M glass. I think M glass on Z definitely benefit from extra LR sharpening more than on native M body. I feel for difficult lens like 21SEM, even if we down size to 24M, M is still slightly ahead on corner. This is my impression during editing and eye ball the results and I am prepared to be wrong when I set these up correctly later
However, this is a trade off that anyone need think about if they decide use M glass on any other system. I am totally happy with 35mm f1.7VC and 15mm VC on Z, most 50mm summicron and so is 75mmlux 90mmAPO etc....I am also satisfied with 21SEM (f8~f11 landscape) and 50lux (f1.4 portrait) on Z for the way I use them most of time, and I would also say they are perfect fine for my use even I shoot 21SEM WO or 50lux landscape. There always are better but sometimes we just have to be practical.
The size benefit and shooting enjoyment M glass bring is huge.
Now, In this case about Panasonic S, S is indeed big and huge but for a reason. Its a power hungry and performance oriented system, you need beef battery and body for heat dissipation and of course for ergonomics Pro after for big AF glasses. For my case, I plan mostly use manual glass on it, the total package size and weight is very manageable. It can't replace Nikon Z at least for now, the Z glass are too good if you need AF. I don't have much complain at all for Z system. it just works. I would say it again, S is for heart but Z is for brain.
S was the one I though Nikon would have introduced before Z show up. However, I have to say I agree with Nikon's decision for Z consider its superb build and size. f1.8 Prime are the ones most photographers (who know what they are doing
) are after, high quality with piratical size speed and price. Choices are good. I am glad to have what we have now.
Feb 11, 2019 at 12:28 PM
p.1 #20M-Mount Lenses on Nikon Z7 and Panasonic S1R MLC
Steve Spencer wrote:
As such, I am going to stick with Leica for Leica glass, as I have no intention of unloading them to replace them with specific Leica lenses that work better on a Nikon!
I really wanted them to work perfectly on my Z7, as then I could have reduced my camera body count, but this is not to be. What is nice is the Z7 with M adapter and M lenses, is much smaller than the equivalent focal length slr lenses with matching adapter.Do you have any side by side comparison with the M240 and the 50 lux Asph? All I saw were some samples with the 50 lux Asph not any comparisons, but perhaps I missed it.
They should be there in what I posted. The M was sharper even in the center. But.. I dont consider this as
actual image making just pixel peeping. And I have yet to use it w M lenses to take ‘real’ pics, because the reality is all these lenses work so much better on their native bodies, no matter the brand or format.
Desmolicious wrote
I understand that some Leica lenses would work better on non Leica cameras than other ones, but I tested with some of what I have, including the 50 Asph, and every single one of them was better on my Leica M than my Z7.As such, I am going to stick with Leica for Leica glass, as I have no intention of unloading them to replace them with specific Leica lenses that work better on a Nikon!
I really wanted them to work perfectly on my Z7, as then I could have reduced my camera body count, but this is not to be. What is nice is the Z7 with M adapter and M lenses, is much smaller than the equivalent focal length slr lenses with matching adapter.
They should be there in what I posted. The M was sharper even in the center. But.. I dont consider this as
actual image making just pixel peeping. And I have yet to use it w M lenses to take ‘real’ pics, because the reality is all these lenses work so much better on their native bodies, no matter the brand or format.
Feb 11, 2019 at 02:49 PM